House of Commons shooting?
Discussion
mcdjl said:
The question wasn't about codes perse. The question was asking you to prove you weren't a threat. Your answer of 'i don't know that code, who does?' failed to prove anything.
If you really do think that locking up people indefinitely without trial isn't even a little extreme.....wow.
I've no idea what you did in Iraq or Afghanistan, but if everyone with you had similar ideas that might explain why both places went down hill so badly.
You seem to be clutching at straws here to be honest. My opinions are my own, not of that of my employer or colleagues. I don't think the reason Iraq and Afghanistan went "downhill" have anything to do with soldiers.If you really do think that locking up people indefinitely without trial isn't even a little extreme.....wow.
I've no idea what you did in Iraq or Afghanistan, but if everyone with you had similar ideas that might explain why both places went down hill so badly.
Deptford Draylons said:
On the pyramid thing, this has a point at the top which in this case is the lone person doing the killing, behind him you have a greater number who are on the watch list, behind them you have another wider layer of people that don't mind seeing British soldiers having their head cut off and the like, behind them you have those who won't openly say Charlie Hebdo cartoonists should be killed, but do look at their feet and only say ' well they shouldn't have drawn those cartoons'. All the way down to things like the Trojan horse school problems where you may have people who condemn violence , but breed segregation and division with a narrow agenda and which feeds into a much greater problem. Narrow closed societies and things like faith schools will help be the breading ground for the problem to grow.
Don't like the pyramid analogy. Like most things pertaining to people, I would expect this to be a normal distribution, a bell curve if you like, with extreme pacifist Moslems at one extreme, and extemist jihadis at the other. A minor point maybe, but a more realistic way of looking at it.rscott said:
I can and do condemn Muslim extremists who carry out or support these attacks, but I won't just group all Muslims together as evil or call for them all to be removed as some have done on here.
And no, I'm not a Muslim. I'm a lapsed Methodist
I can't say I've read the whole thread, but who has used the word 'all' when either saying they should all be removed or they are all evil ? And no, I'm not a Muslim. I'm a lapsed Methodist
Edited by rscott on Saturday 25th March 16:05
Deptford Draylons said:
I can't say I've read the whole thread, but who has used the word 'all' when either saying they should all be removed or they are all evil ?
I don't think anyone has mate. The usual thing has happened where people have tried to twist people's words and throw insults about. Standard PH stuff to be fair. There have been people trying to lead others into discontinuation and racism - even accusing them of it, best ignored really and stick to the relevant points.
There has already been a warning issued about insults.
rscott said:
bmw535i said:
Gavia said:
That's because you want that to be the case. It's easy to have a damaged bonnet or wing that accounts for all of it.
My point remains, the description of "fundamentally rotten" is a catch all to spdescribe a full culture and that is simply wrong. Nobody is denying that there is a problem with a group of people who happen to be Muslims, but that doesn't mean the whole society is knackered.
Your views are just as extreme as the whackos who are running around committing vile acts. You just think you're in the right. However, if the views of many on here are taken into account then at least 0.1% of the white population are nutjobs too, so that means white society (whatever that is) is fundamentally rotten too
What views of mine are extreme?My point remains, the description of "fundamentally rotten" is a catch all to spdescribe a full culture and that is simply wrong. Nobody is denying that there is a problem with a group of people who happen to be Muslims, but that doesn't mean the whole society is knackered.
Your views are just as extreme as the whackos who are running around committing vile acts. You just think you're in the right. However, if the views of many on here are taken into account then at least 0.1% of the white population are nutjobs too, so that means white society (whatever that is) is fundamentally rotten too
1. Indefinite detention without trial simply on suspicion of being a Jihadist.
To an extent I was in agreement at the time. British intelligence could name any number of terrorists that there was concrete evidence against, although much of it could not be adduced in open court. There was, it was felt, the need for a response to the constant murderous rampages of these otherwise untouchables. But international support was missing. Ironically, given their complete disregard for habeas corpus that has been going on for 15 years, it was the USA which was the biggest critic and it actually increased the funding and hurt the negotiations with the USA government to stop, at the very least, supporting the PIRA terrorists and maybe even stop paying for the bombs and guns.
There is evidence to suggest that it provided strong and unanswerable evidence that all it needed was another little push for the UK government to give in to terrorism. It seems probable that if it hadn't been used, the PIRA would have been forced to negotiate much earlier than they were.
There is no doubt that it had a negative effect on the UK's campaign to fight the PIRA terrorists. The evidence is out there, easily found.
The one thing the current jihadists want is something similar. Hopefully it has learned its lesson and will not do anything so stupid. I would assume it will take little notice of comments on here and social media.
Whether Internment is extreme or not is hardly the question as it is such a pathetically stupid idea.
Derek Smith said:
Detention without trial was one of the major errors by the UK in the battle against the PIRA terrorists. The argument for it was that if anyone is pysicotic enough to want to bomb their fellow humans beings into oblivion (and, in many cases, merely terribly injure them because it got more publicity) then logic plays little or no part in their decision making process.
To an extent I was in agreement at the time. British intelligence could name any number of terrorists that there was concrete evidence against, although much of it could not be adduced in open court. There was, it was felt, the need for a response to the constant murderous rampages of these otherwise untouchables. But international support was missing. Ironically, given their complete disregard for habeas corpus that has been going on for 15 years, it was the USA which was the biggest critic and it actually increased the funding and hurt the negotiations with the USA government to stop, at the very least, supporting the PIRA terrorists and maybe even stop paying for the bombs and guns.
There is evidence to suggest that it provided strong and unanswerable evidence that all it needed was another little push for the UK government to give in to terrorism. It seems probable that if it hadn't been used, the PIRA would have been forced to negotiate much earlier than they were.
There is no doubt that it had a negative effect on the UK's campaign to fight the PIRA terrorists. The evidence is out there, easily found.
The one thing the current jihadists want is something similar. Hopefully it has learned its lesson and will not do anything so stupid. I would assume it will take little notice of comments on here and social media.
Whether Internment is extreme or not is hardly the question as it is such a pathetically stupid idea.
Tl:drTo an extent I was in agreement at the time. British intelligence could name any number of terrorists that there was concrete evidence against, although much of it could not be adduced in open court. There was, it was felt, the need for a response to the constant murderous rampages of these otherwise untouchables. But international support was missing. Ironically, given their complete disregard for habeas corpus that has been going on for 15 years, it was the USA which was the biggest critic and it actually increased the funding and hurt the negotiations with the USA government to stop, at the very least, supporting the PIRA terrorists and maybe even stop paying for the bombs and guns.
There is evidence to suggest that it provided strong and unanswerable evidence that all it needed was another little push for the UK government to give in to terrorism. It seems probable that if it hadn't been used, the PIRA would have been forced to negotiate much earlier than they were.
There is no doubt that it had a negative effect on the UK's campaign to fight the PIRA terrorists. The evidence is out there, easily found.
The one thing the current jihadists want is something similar. Hopefully it has learned its lesson and will not do anything so stupid. I would assume it will take little notice of comments on here and social media.
Whether Internment is extreme or not is hardly the question as it is such a pathetically stupid idea.
There still hasn't been as answer to your assertion about me being defined by the car I want to drive?
Deptford Draylons said:
I can't say I've read the whole thread, but who has used the word 'all' when either saying they should all be removed or they are all evil ?
I wasn't talking about this thread in particular, just discussions on here which involve Muslims. Far as i know, most of the threads which had the more extreme comments have been removed. bmw535i said:
Deptford Draylons said:
I can't say I've read the whole thread, but who has used the word 'all' when either saying they should all be removed or they are all evil ?
I don't think anyone has mate. The usual thing has happened where people have tried to twist people's words and throw insults about. Standard PH stuff to be fair. There have been people trying to lead others into discontinuation and racism - even accusing them of it, best ignored really and stick to the relevant points.
There has already been a warning issued about insults.
bmw535i said:
mcdjl said:
The question wasn't about codes perse. The question was asking you to prove you weren't a threat. Your answer of 'i don't know that code, who does?' failed to prove anything.
If you really do think that locking up people indefinitely without trial isn't even a little extreme.....wow.
I've no idea what you did in Iraq or Afghanistan, but if everyone with you had similar ideas that might explain why both places went down hill so badly.
You seem to be clutching at straws here to be honest. My opinions are my own, not of that of my employer or colleagues. I don't think the reason Iraq and Afghanistan went "downhill" have anything to do with soldiers.If you really do think that locking up people indefinitely without trial isn't even a little extreme.....wow.
I've no idea what you did in Iraq or Afghanistan, but if everyone with you had similar ideas that might explain why both places went down hill so badly.
Like I said, I've no idea what you did out there, or when. My point was only that if locking up everyone who might be a terrorist was thought to be a good idea out there, well it seems to be hugely ineffectual.
bmw535i said:
SKP555 said:
That's why we don't entrust our safety to you.
Leave it to the people who've been trained to look after the security of the UK.
There will always be armchair warriors who know better than those who've seen it first hand.
Thats a bit rich coming from you.
Edited by Greendubber on Saturday 25th March 16:54
mcdjl said:
The straw in clutching at its actually a glimmer and it's not what you think it is.
Like I said, I've no idea what you did out there, or when. My point was only that if locking up everyone who might be a terrorist was thought to be a good idea out there, well it seems to be hugely ineffectual.
I can only reiterate that my opinion is only my own - not that of my employer or other members of the security forcesLike I said, I've no idea what you did out there, or when. My point was only that if locking up everyone who might be a terrorist was thought to be a good idea out there, well it seems to be hugely ineffectual.
glazbagun said:
Lance Catarmaran said:
Derek Smith said:
140 characters and then the brain shuts down, eh?
Did you have an answer to the question I asked about your assertion about my car?I think your post is longer than 140 characters.
Greendubber said:
Thats a bit rich coming from you.
Edited by Greendubber on Saturday 25th March 16:54
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 25th March 17:08
mcdjl said:
The problem with rolling news is it demands something to show. Hence the sudden rush of arrests in Birmingham, must of whom have now been released without charge. What we see being done and what's effective are totally different. Effective doesn't look good NOW though.
Effective would be removing them from society?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff