House of Commons shooting?
Discussion
p1stonhead said:
I'm not in charge of a military.
But for starters I would say perhaps sort the aiming out!
'Sadly there will always be civilian casualties' is possibly the problem no?
Do you really think that to everyone on the ground they see us as trying to save them? Or do some see us as very advanced terorrists who strike out of the sky with bombs?
I've just spotted your edit. But for starters I would say perhaps sort the aiming out!
'Sadly there will always be civilian casualties' is possibly the problem no?
Do you really think that to everyone on the ground they see us as trying to save them? Or do some see us as very advanced terorrists who strike out of the sky with bombs?
Edited by p1stonhead on Monday 27th March 19:18
Yes, I think it is a problem.
On the whole, in my experience, UK forces are viewed favourably by the local population - insurgents aside of course. Apart from NI - everyone hated us there.
Gavia said:
bmw535i said:
Do you have any knowledge or experience of military operations?
I have some. What's your knowledge and experience?It is always interesting when people are critical of an action, but don't seem to be able to provide a viable alternative. I am not dismissing anyone just because they have never served on operations, but it is probably an advantage to have done so when commenting on military action.
bmw535i said:
I have some. Perhaps more than P1.
It is always interesting when people are critical of an action, but don't seem to be able to provide a viable alternative. I am not dismissing anyone just because they have never served on operations, but it is probably an advantage to have done so when commenting on military action.
I've never served in the Military, however I do know that in this area of 200 dead we have potentially recruited some Jihadist's that now hate the West. I'm willing to bet some ISIS are already in the area asking if anyone wants to help the great fight against the infidels.......It is always interesting when people are critical of an action, but don't seem to be able to provide a viable alternative. I am not dismissing anyone just because they have never served on operations, but it is probably an advantage to have done so when commenting on military action.
WestyCarl said:
I've never served in the Military, however I do know that in this area of 200 dead we have potentially recruited some Jihadist's that now hate the West. I'm willing to bet some ISIS are already in the area asking if anyone wants to help the great fight against the infidels.......
Precisely. Those 200 dead are the best advertising campaign that ISIS could wish for.
bmw535i said:
Alpinestars said:
Minding our own business?
Do you mean not try and defeat ISIS?Don't you think it's in our interest and therefore our 'business' to help defeat ISIS?
Edited by bmw535i on Monday 27th March 19:33
The one attack we just had (in some years) came from someone born in Kent.
They don't need to travel from anywhere as long as they have the internet to be indoctrinated.
Ever seen V for Vendetta? 'Ideas are bulletproof'
WestyCarl said:
I've never served in the Military, however I do know that in this area of 200 dead we have potentially recruited some Jihadist's that now hate the West. I'm willing to bet some ISIS are already in the area asking if anyone wants to help the great fight against the infidels.......
Definitely. Military errors, mistreatment etc are valuable recruiting tools.In Afghanistan it was commonplace to financially compensate locals on the spot for any damage to their property etc. Generally, military forces go to great lengths to appease the local population to avoid exactly what you've said. It's called Counter Insurgency (COIN).
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-evo...
It is something the UK military currently do not teach its ground troops as we are not deployed in a counter insurgency role.
p1stonhead said:
bmw535i said:
Alpinestars said:
Minding our own business?
Do you mean not try and defeat ISIS?Don't you think it's in our interest and therefore our 'business' to help defeat ISIS?
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 27th March 19:33
The one attack we just had (in some years) came from someone born in Kent.
They don't need to travel from anywhere as long as they have the internet to be indoctrinated.
Ever seen V for Vendetta? 'Ideas are bulletproof'
Do you think it is an issue there are several hundred British people in Syria fighting and likely to return at some point?
Do you think it's an issue British people go to places like Afghanistan and Syria to attend training camps?
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 27th March 19:59
bmw535i said:
p1stonhead said:
bmw535i said:
Alpinestars said:
Minding our own business?
Do you mean not try and defeat ISIS?Don't you think it's in our interest and therefore our 'business' to help defeat ISIS?
Edited by bmw535i on Monday 27th March 19:33
The one attack we just had (in some years) came from someone born in Kent.
They don't need to travel from anywhere as long as they have the internet to be indoctrinated.
Ever seen V for Vendetta? 'Ideas are bulletproof'
Do you think it is an issue there are several hundred British people in Syria fighting and likely to return at some point?
Do you think it's an issue British people go to places like Afghanistan and Syria to attend training camps?
Edited by bmw535i on Monday 27th March 19:59
bmw535i said:
p1stonhead said:
Yes they are both issues.
Do you have any ideas how to stop these issues?You are very quick to ask questions. How does your grand plan defeat them?
How does bombing Syria stop the guy who just attacked Westminster?
p1stonhead said:
Bombing civilians is evidently the way forward accordingly to America.
You are very quick to ask questions. How does your grand plan defeat them?
How does bombing Syria stop the guy who just attacked Westminster?
It is a coalition not just America.You are very quick to ask questions. How does your grand plan defeat them?
How does bombing Syria stop the guy who just attacked Westminster?
You are slow to answer them. I don't have a grand plan not have I said the current strategy is good or will succeed.
There is no need to appear so worked up over this - we can discuss without the posturing in a calm way.
It won't, internment would have prevented that, but it may prevent further attacks in the UK.
bmw535i said:
p1stonhead said:
Bombing civilians is evidently the way forward accordingly to America.
You are very quick to ask questions. How does your grand plan defeat them?
How does bombing Syria stop the guy who just attacked Westminster?
It is a coalition not just America.You are very quick to ask questions. How does your grand plan defeat them?
How does bombing Syria stop the guy who just attacked Westminster?
You are slow to answer them. I don't have a grand plan not have I said the current strategy is good or will succeed.
There is no need to appear so worked up over this - we can discuss without the posturing in a calm way.
It won't, but it may prevent further attacks in the UK.
del mar said:
Baroness Warsi on Andrew Marr yesterday morning.
AM
We have a man here with a history of petty crime and violence, and yet it is not until he turns to Islam that he carries out this atrocity. More and more of these people tend be drawn to Islam rather than say Christianity. Why is that what do they see in Islam ? (or words to that effect)
BW.
There are violent Hindus and even Buddhists would you believe - another 40 seconds or so of waffle without getting anywhere near the question.
AM
Tell us about your new book.....
A fine example of the skills needed to be a Politician
Suggesting that such attacks have nothing whatsoever to do with religion is just as stupid as saying they have everything to do with religion.AM
We have a man here with a history of petty crime and violence, and yet it is not until he turns to Islam that he carries out this atrocity. More and more of these people tend be drawn to Islam rather than say Christianity. Why is that what do they see in Islam ? (or words to that effect)
BW.
There are violent Hindus and even Buddhists would you believe - another 40 seconds or so of waffle without getting anywhere near the question.
AM
Tell us about your new book.....
A fine example of the skills needed to be a Politician
In her book Warsi makes the argument that the brutality of jihadi terrorists has nothing to do with religion but everything to do with poverty, a lack of education, foreign policy, conflicts in Muslim lands, an identity crisis among British Muslims etc. Strange that she wasn't saying that when she was drawing her ministerial salary.
Sure Budhists in Burma are butchering innocent rohingya civilians but they're not using Buddhist religious scriptures to justify such behaviour.
I think the piece below is an interesting one when it comes to this subject.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5737388
p1stonhead said:
Again you seem to think I'm getting worked up. You were the one suggesting locking people up without trial indefinitely in case they may be a future terrorist.
You appear to be a bit petulant. Perhaps it is me interpreting your posts not as they were intended - apologies if so.Still, you haven't suggested any alternative strategies to confront the issues you admit we are facing, but you continue to question and criticise the current ones.
ETA, you appear to have missed the edit to my last post
The Burma / Myanmar situation isn't a close parallel at all, there would need to be widespread abhorrent acts of terrorism in e.g. America / France / Tunisia / UK perpetrated by Buddhists against not just Muslims but the general population - this is not the case. I appreciate that no direct equivalence has been claimed but the mention invites comparison.
bmw535i said:
p1stonhead said:
Again you seem to think I'm getting worked up. You were the one suggesting locking people up without trial indefinitely in case they may be a future terrorist.
You appear to be a bit petulant. Perhaps it is me interpreting your posts not as they were intended - apologies if so.Still, you haven't suggested any alternative strategies to confront the issues you admit we are facing, but you continue to question and criticise the current ones.
ETA, you appear to have missed the edit to my last post
So the French civilians who died during the liberation from German rule all joined terrorist groups did they ?
I think you will find many of those killed IN ERROR during this bloody and brutal war know exactly what evil they are being liberated from.
An evil that beheads, burns, strangles, throws from roofs etc etc....
War sadly costs despite the massive efforts trying to avoid it.
I think you will find many of those killed IN ERROR during this bloody and brutal war know exactly what evil they are being liberated from.
An evil that beheads, burns, strangles, throws from roofs etc etc....
War sadly costs despite the massive efforts trying to avoid it.
p1stonhead said:
I don't feel that just because I don't have a solution myself means I can't be critical of those trying out theirs.
Well yes, it's easy to be critical about something you know very little about, but when you offer no alternative it just completely undermines the point.I don't know much about policing, and am often critical of it, but I do try and offer an alternative method to the one I dislike. You don't have to be an expert on something to offer an idea. Only bad leaders are completely dismissive of ideas.
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