House of Commons shooting?

[p1stonhead]

Stickyfinger said:

So the French civilians who died during the liberation from German rule all joined terrorist groups did they ?

I think you will find many of those killed IN ERROR during this bloody and brutal war know exactly what evil they are being liberated from.

An evil that beheads, burns, strangles, throws from roofs etc etc....

War sadly costs despite the massive efforts trying to avoid it.

'In error' means nothing to those who just had their lives destroyed. If there was a Syrian version of Pistonheads there would be 100 pages mourning their 200 dead and trying to come up with 'solutions' for us. To many of them, we are a silent enemy which can come out of nowhere.

Have you seen the video of the American soldiers in Afghanistan asking the common man if they knew why they were there and if they had heard of 9/11? Many hadn't a clue.

If this air strike hit a British base and killed 200 of our soldiers in error would you say 'war sadly costs' or would be be going absolutely apest trying to find out what the hell happened and how to bring those responsible to justice?

As many other have said - these events are all ISIS can ask for. It's a dream for them.

[anonymous-user]

p1stonhead said:

'In error' means nothing to those who just had their lives destroyed. If there was a Syrian version of Pistonheads there would be 100 pages mourning their 200 dead and trying to come up with 'solutions' for us. To many of them, we are a silent enemy which can come out of nowhere.

Have you seen the video of the American soldiers in Afghanistan asking the common man if they knew why they were there and if they had heard of 9/11? Many hadn't a clue.

If this air strike hit a British base and killed 200 of our soldiers in error would you say 'war sadly costs' or would be be going absolutely apest trying to find out what the hell happened and how to bring those responsible to justice?

As many other have said - these events are all ISIS can ask for. It's a dream for them.

British soldiers have been hit by each other and other members of whatever coalition we're part of many times over various different operations. I remember frantically waving a Union Flag from the window of my Yukon as we were given warning shots by Estonians - it was always a bit twitchy going past the Americans too. Unless you have been on a kinetic and fast evolving battlefield it is difficult to understand how confusing it can be.

Sometimes you could be driving along and pass a convoy coming the other way all wearing respirators / slightly worrying. Comms were awful back then - still are to be fair.

You keep jumping up and down how bad it all is, but you can't think of a better way to confront the issues.

[Stickyfinger]

p1stonhead said:

'In error' means nothing to those who just had their lives destroyed. If there was a Syrian version of Pistonheads there would be 100 pages mourning their 200 dead and trying to come up with 'solutions' for us. To many of them, we are a silent enemy which can come out of nowhere.

Have you seen the video of the American soldiers in Afghanistan asking the common man if they knew why they were there and if they had heard of 9/11? Many hadn't a clue.

If this air strike hit a British base and killed 200 of our soldiers in error would you say 'war sadly costs' or would be be going absolutely apest trying to find out what the hell happened and how to bring those responsible to justice?

As many other have said - these events are all ISIS can ask for. It's a dream for them.

There WILL be a lot of investigation, you know f-all about the internal procedures obviously.

The Pilot/Drone operator/Strike selectors will be devastated, more than likely taken off active duty and this WILL haunt them/him for the rest of their/his lives.

Do you really think this war is a fking game to the people fighting it ?

[anonymous-user]

Stickyfinger said:

There WILL be a lot of investigation, you know f-all about the internal procedures obviously.

The Pilot/Drone operator/Strike selectors will be devastated, more than likely taken off active duty and this WILL haunt them/him for the rest of their/his lives.

Do you really think this war is a fking game to the people fighting it ?

I don't think he knows anything about military operations.

[p1stonhead]

bmw535i said:

Stickyfinger said:

There WILL be a lot of investigation, you know f-all about the internal procedures obviously.

The Pilot/Drone operator/Strike selectors will be devastated, more than likely taken off active duty and this WILL haunt them/him for the rest of their/his lives.

Do you really think this war is a fking game to the people fighting it ?

I don't think he knows anything about military operations.

I have no idea at all. Don't need to though to comment do I?

I wasn't aware of this new found rule. You apparently DO have experience and still don't have any answers!

[anonymous-user]

p1stonhead said:

In other recent news....

200 civilians killed by US by air strike over the weekend.

I wonder if anyone will be demanding Christians apologise in public?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/u...

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the specific incident, I don't see what that has to do with Christianity and how it could be a parallel for what was under discussion.

[anonymous-user]

p1stonhead said:

I have no idea at all. Don't need to though to comment do I?

I wasn't aware of this new found rule. You apparently DO have experience and still don't have any answers!

Well if you want to be taken seriously at least offer an alternative strategy so we can debate it - just keeping on saying something is bad is quite pointless.

What answers do you want? I think I've answered all your questions and commentated on your points with personal experiences.

The term 'armchair warrior' was used the other day by someone in relation to the Westminster attack (I don't recall who), it seems quite fitting here too. Please don't take that the wrong way - it's not intended to be derogatory.

It is interesting that people who have been equally vociferous about Brexit are doing similar here. It brings to mind another saying about empty vessels.

[Smiler.]

La Liga said:

p1stonhead said:

In other recent news....

200 civilians killed by US by air strike over the weekend.

I wonder if anyone will be demanding Christians apologise in public?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/u...

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the specific incident, I don't see what that has to do with Christianity and how it could be a parallel for what was under discussion.

Set your petty level to max. Then it should make sense.

[Alpinestars]

bmw535i said:

Alpinestars said:

Minding our own business?

Do you mean not try and defeat ISIS?

Don't you think it's in our interest and therefore our 'business' to help defeat ISIS?

Edited by bmw535i on Monday 27th March 19:33

Let's rewind 25 years or so. Had we not gone into, by a number of accounts, an illegal war in Iraq, we might not need to fight ISIS.

[Alpinestars]

Stickyfinger said:

So the French civilians who died during the liberation from German rule all joined terrorist groups did they ?

I think you will find many of those killed IN ERROR during this bloody and brutal war know exactly what evil they are being liberated from.

An evil that beheads, burns, strangles, throws from roofs etc etc....

War sadly costs despite the massive efforts trying to avoid it.

One man's collateral damage, is another man's terrorism.

[anonymous-user]

Alpinestars said:

bmw535i said:

Alpinestars said:

Minding our own business?

Do you mean not try and defeat ISIS?

Don't you think it's in our interest and therefore our 'business' to help defeat ISIS?

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 27th March 19:33

Let's rewind 25 years or so. Had we not gone into, by a number of accounts, an illegal war in Iraq, we might not need to fight ISIS.

So do you think we need to defeat ISIS? If so, hindsight won't do it

[Alpinestars]

bmw535i said:

Alpinestars said:

bmw535i said:

Alpinestars said:

Minding our own business?

Do you mean not try and defeat ISIS?

Don't you think it's in our interest and therefore our 'business' to help defeat ISIS?

Edited by bmw535i on Monday 27th March 19:33

Let's rewind 25 years or so. Had we not gone into, by a number of accounts, an illegal war in Iraq, we might not need to fight ISIS.

So do you think we need to defeat ISIS? If so, hindsight won't do it

The world needs to defeat ISIS. Notwithstanding that, we shouldn't have meddled in the ME and try to impose our views, rules and ideology on a foreign country. It's rather ironic that we tried to impose democracy on countries in the ME and ISIS' mantra is to impose their ideology on us. Until we accept our mistakes, we won't win hearts and minds of those that feel aggrieved and those that recruit Jihadists by using the propaganda of the West killing innocent people. ISIS is fungible, and won't be defeated by bombing in whatever country in the ME we decide to bomb. Hearts and minds.

[anonymous-user]

Alpinestars said:

The world needs to defeat ISIS. Notwithstanding that, we shouldn't have meddled in the ME and try to impose our views, rules and ideology on a foreign country. It's rather ironic that we tried to impose democracy on countries in the ME and ISIS' mantra is to impose their ideology on us. Until we accept our mistakes, we won't win hearts and minds of those that feel aggrieved and those that recruit Jihadists by using the propaganda of the West killing innocent people. ISIS is fungible, and won't be defeated by bombing in whatever country in the ME we decide to bomb. Hearts and minds.

I think we have learnt from our mistakes in Iraq and Libya - hence Assad is still there. Do you think we only entered those countries to try and instill our views, rules and democracy?

How do you suggest defeating them?

[tali1]

BlackLabel said:

del mar said:

Baroness Warsi on Andrew Marr yesterday morning.

AM
We have a man here with a history of petty crime and violence, and yet it is not until he turns to Islam that he carries out this atrocity. More and more of these people tend be drawn to Islam rather than say Christianity. Why is that what do they see in Islam ? (or words to that effect)

BW.
There are violent Hindus and even Buddhists would you believe - another 40 seconds or so of waffle without getting anywhere near the question.

AM
Tell us about your new book.....


A fine example of the skills needed to be a Politician

Suggesting that such attacks have nothing whatsoever to do with religion is just as stupid as saying they have everything to do with religion.

In her book Warsi makes the argument that the brutality of jihadi terrorists has nothing to do with religion but everything to do with poverty, a lack of education, foreign policy, conflicts in Muslim lands, an identity crisis among British Muslims etc. Strange that she wasn't saying that when she was drawing her ministerial salary.

Sure Budhists in Burma are butchering innocent rohingya civilians but they're not using Buddhist religious scriptures to justify such behaviour.

I think the piece below is an interesting one when it comes to this subject.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5737388

Yes thanks for that fascinating insight...by an Ex-Muslim -impartial ..yeh...
So religious scriptures violence is worse than what the buddhists are doing?.
Remember The Catholic church apologized for their involvement in the Rwandan genocide by The Army of Jesus (800,000 killed in 100 days)

Edited by tali1 on Monday 27th March 22:04

[Alpinestars]

bmw535i said:

I think we have learnt from our mistakes in Iraq and Libya - hence Assad is still there. Do you think we only entered those countries to try and instill our views, rules and democracy?

How do you suggest defeating them?

Am I being interrogated by a guy who wants internment imposed?

What's your view?

PS, no evidence to link the killer to ISIS according to the police.

[Stickyfinger]

Alpinestars said:

Stickyfinger said:

So the French civilians who died during the liberation from German rule all joined terrorist groups did they ?

I think you will find many of those killed IN ERROR during this bloody and brutal war know exactly what evil they are being liberated from.

An evil that beheads, burns, strangles, throws from roofs etc etc....

War sadly costs despite the massive efforts trying to avoid it.

One man's collateral damage, is another man's terrorism.

Simplistic twaddle.

Ask yourself, would you take the same position about confronting Nazi Germany.
Islamic extremism will soon take as many lives.

Edited by Stickyfinger on Monday 27th March 22:09

[Alpinestars]

Stickyfinger said:

Simplistic twaddle.

Ask yourself, would you take the same position about confronting Nazi Germany.

Hello little fella. We had nothing to do with creating the Nazis.

Simplistic in that UK jihadis have stated their reasons for their actions were because of the reasons I've given? Simplistic because Chilcott concluded the Iraq war created ISIS?

[anonymous-user]

Alpinestars said:

bmw535i said:

I think we have learnt from our mistakes in Iraq and Libya - hence Assad is still there. Do you think we only entered those countries to try and instill our views, rules and democracy?

How do you suggest defeating them?

Am I being interrogated by a guy who wants internment imposed?

What's your view?

PS, no evidence to link the killer to ISIS according to the police.

Hmmm I'm not sure that you asking questions answer mine. I'm not interrogating you, just interested in your ideas. It appears we have got the the stage where we have established you think the current policy is rubbish, but can't think of a better alternative.

I think your lack of understanding is not doing you any favours. If you don't know the answers, that's fine. We will just have to leave it that you don't like the current policy the coalition are engaged in - it's a valid point, but it would be interesting to hear a better way that nobody from the coalition has thought of yet. Are you aware of the makeup of the coalition?

I dare say you have little to no understanding of the rules of engagement either, or after action reviews?

[danllama]

Alpinestars said:

danllama said:

At this point, I don't think anything could sour relations between Muslims and the West any more than they are already, so I doubt the 200 dead will make much difference politically.

Does that mean you don't care about the 200 dead?

Are you a child?

[johnxjsc1985]

just watching SKY News they are in Mosul. They have found a "sinkhole" with a reported 6000 bodies in it courtesy of I.S. I don't think you send in an application form to Isis with an annual subscription or wait for a text message with instructions to carry out a deadly deed.
What is happening is difficult to explain with people identifying with a religion and a murderous cult to justify there own evil act.
Syria looks like Hell on Earth how it ever finds peace is beyond me.The bombings are called for by the Iraqi forces its not just the Yanks dropping bombs when they feel like it and I.S are using people as human shields.
So there is a link between the house of commons shooting but its a very complicated one