House of Commons shooting?
Discussion
JagLover said:
There is a balance to be drawn in every society.
Democracy and the rule of law did not stop the internment of "enemy" civilians during WW2 and our current policy of "ooman rights" before everything else, including security, will not survive constant attacks of this nature.
We need a rethink in many areas, most particularly in immigration policy, and the Human Rights act stands in the way of many sensible measures. It is the people, not lawyers, who should be sovereign and if the law stands in the way of our peace and prosperity then the law should be changed.
Presumably, as part of this rethink, we will also start actually thinking about what hornet nests we go poking sticks in as a country? (Iraq) (Afganistan) and now (Syria - do we ever learn?). Democracy and the rule of law did not stop the internment of "enemy" civilians during WW2 and our current policy of "ooman rights" before everything else, including security, will not survive constant attacks of this nature.
We need a rethink in many areas, most particularly in immigration policy, and the Human Rights act stands in the way of many sensible measures. It is the people, not lawyers, who should be sovereign and if the law stands in the way of our peace and prosperity then the law should be changed.
Can't watch anymore of this, it's depressing. The BBC are gorging themselves with the BBC Breakfast duo presenting from the street just down from Westminster.
Quite why they couldn't have stayed in Manchester and switched to one of London's many presenters for an update is beyond me.
Sky news mobile update: death toll revised back to 4. 1 attacker, 1 cop and 2 MOPs.
Quite why they couldn't have stayed in Manchester and switched to one of London's many presenters for an update is beyond me.
Sky news mobile update: death toll revised back to 4. 1 attacker, 1 cop and 2 MOPs.
jamesson said:
As a serving police officer, thank you to those of you on here who have made supportive comments in praise of the police. I know we're not perfect but we're trying our best in a very difficult world, terrorism or otherwise.
The ambulance service also deserves our praise and support for diving in to help save people's lives even though they would have no idea if today's incident was the first of several and they could have been caught up in more danger.
Also, the public who stopped what they were doing to help injured strangers to the best of their abilities.
It's particularly sad for me personally to lose a colleague but the others who lost their lives today are just as much a loss as PC Palmer. May they all rest in peace.
Nicely said.The ambulance service also deserves our praise and support for diving in to help save people's lives even though they would have no idea if today's incident was the first of several and they could have been caught up in more danger.
Also, the public who stopped what they were doing to help injured strangers to the best of their abilities.
It's particularly sad for me personally to lose a colleague but the others who lost their lives today are just as much a loss as PC Palmer. May they all rest in peace.
Such incidents do show some people at their best. Something positive to take from the horror.
JagLover said:
There is a balance to be drawn in every society.
Democracy and the rule of law did not stop the internment of "enemy" civilians during WW2 and our current policy of "ooman rights" before everything else, including security, will not survive constant attacks of this nature.
We need a rethink in many areas, most particularly in immigration policy, and the Human Rights act stands in the way of many sensible measures. It is the people, not lawyers, who should be sovereign and if the law stands in the way of our peace and prosperity then the law should be changed.
My thoughts too. Now my opinions count for little, few people know who I am (not that I care) and, more importantly, I am certainly not the sharpest, most incisive and analytic mind to be set to the task. Fortunately, there is at least one, far, far superior intellect, that knows a lot about the issue and makes a fairly conclusive comment, Taleb: https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-win...Democracy and the rule of law did not stop the internment of "enemy" civilians during WW2 and our current policy of "ooman rights" before everything else, including security, will not survive constant attacks of this nature.
We need a rethink in many areas, most particularly in immigration policy, and the Human Rights act stands in the way of many sensible measures. It is the people, not lawyers, who should be sovereign and if the law stands in the way of our peace and prosperity then the law should be changed.
It's been shared on here before, but it is well worth a read through from start to finish, but, for the management summary:
N N Taleb said:
The Most Intolerant Wins: The Dictatorship of the Small Minority...
...So, we need to be more than intolerant with some intolerant minorities. It is not permissible to use “American values” or “Western principles” in treating intolerant Salafism (which denies other peoples’ right to have their own religion). The West is currently in the process of committing suicide.
...So, we need to be more than intolerant with some intolerant minorities. It is not permissible to use “American values” or “Western principles” in treating intolerant Salafism (which denies other peoples’ right to have their own religion). The West is currently in the process of committing suicide.
minimoog said:
BBC reporting 7 people arrested following the attack.
Saw this headline in a foreign newspaper-went to BBC site. Nothing. How is it the BBC don't splash that across the front page! They did however report, Popes skull cap removed by child, Trump Jr tweets. What a POS news site!Burwood said:
minimoog said:
BBC reporting 7 people arrested following the attack.
Saw this headline in a foreign newspaper-went to BBC site. Nothing. How is it the BBC don't splash that across the front page! They did however report, Popes skull cap removed by child, Trump Jr tweets. What a POS news site!Seven critical. That's not good. Anyone who's been an an accident, seen the aftermath or is aware of the agony of recuperation will now just how life changing some of these injuries will be, and that's for the lucky ones. They'll look back on today as when their life changed.
What's this about an MP (?) suggesting that the police should stop making enquiries into them defrauding the country via expenses? A link, or a name, would be useful.
What's this about an MP (?) suggesting that the police should stop making enquiries into them defrauding the country via expenses? A link, or a name, would be useful.
rscott said:
Burwood said:
minimoog said:
BBC reporting 7 people arrested following the attack.
Saw this headline in a foreign newspaper-went to BBC site. Nothing. How is it the BBC don't splash that across the front page! They did however report, Popes skull cap removed by child, Trump Jr tweets. What a POS news site!BigLion said:
You really are a disgrace to post that on that - I explained the basics of how some idiots are radicalised to perform these horrible acts and all of a sudden I'm being subject to a witch hunt to say that somehow I'm a supporter of what has happened???
I mean WTF, are you sick or stupid or both?
To top it all off you then decide to try to make out that I'm saying something about refugees being terrorist?
Are you on drugs or something???
Honestly this is out of order, don't think defamation of character is an issue I take lightly, I will raise this with the mods.
And in the same post as suggesting defamation you insult someone and suggest they might be on drugs, which could be defamation? I mean WTF, are you sick or stupid or both?
To top it all off you then decide to try to make out that I'm saying something about refugees being terrorist?
Are you on drugs or something???
Honestly this is out of order, don't think defamation of character is an issue I take lightly, I will raise this with the mods.
Treat it as a heated debate in NP&E...
All well and good if the commons is packed. Like teddy bears and flowers are all well and good. Like Je suis Charlie and tricolors on Facebook profiles were all well and good.
It's how we respond in the longer term that is the important thing.
Knee jerk responses and doing something for the sake of being seen to do something are not the answer.
Bravery is stoicism applied to the relatively small risk of personally being caught up in such an attack are fine, but not if they're matched by a cowardly refusal to look at the causes of such attacks or discuss them in a full and frank way.
It's how we respond in the longer term that is the important thing.
Knee jerk responses and doing something for the sake of being seen to do something are not the answer.
Bravery is stoicism applied to the relatively small risk of personally being caught up in such an attack are fine, but not if they're matched by a cowardly refusal to look at the causes of such attacks or discuss them in a full and frank way.
Eric Mc said:
And locking people up without due legal process (AKA "Internment") did nothing to quell dissent in Northern Ireland. It actually exacerbated matters.
It was also, allegedly the genesis of ISIS in the internment camps of Iraq. It was nearly impossible for key extremists to meet without detection by Allies and capture or being killed, but suddenly, within the camps, they were all there and able to meet talk and plot unhindered. However, they did nothing whilst they were locked up. Lessons need to be learned here.Edited by Digga on Thursday 23 March 08:14
Road into work and over Southwark Bridge was packed at they have closed lower Thames Street, but lorries and cars being polite and letting us bikers pass and even chatting out of their windows.
This is London, we wont lie down to terroists.
To all have lost/effected in this attack, condolences, and to the emergency services what a credit you are to our nation.
This is London, we wont lie down to terroists.
To all have lost/effected in this attack, condolences, and to the emergency services what a credit you are to our nation.
BigLion said:
Jonmx said:
BigLion said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
BigLion said:
It's quite easy to get into the mind of most terrorists though isn't it? They see innocent people (most likely family) die in the Middle East because of the actions of the west (drone strike or just destabilisation of a country) and someone then harnesses that anger and hatred to kill those in this country as retribution?
still peddling your anti British agenda then.I mean WTF, are you sick or stupid or both?
To top it all off you then decide to try to make out that I'm saying something about refugees being terrorist?
Are you on drugs or something???
Honestly this is out of order, don't think defamation of character is an issue I take lightly, I will raise this with the mods.
hes buggar off so we can get this back on topic. 
Oceanic said:
JagLover said:
There is a balance to be drawn in every society.
Democracy and the rule of law did not stop the internment of "enemy" civilians during WW2 and our current policy of "ooman rights" before everything else, including security, will not survive constant attacks of this nature.
We need a rethink in many areas, most particularly in immigration policy, and the Human Rights act stands in the way of many sensible measures. It is the people, not lawyers, who should be sovereign and if the law stands in the way of our peace and prosperity then the law should be changed.
Presumably, as part of this rethink, we will also start actually thinking about what hornet nests we go poking sticks in as a country? (Iraq) (Afganistan) and now (Syria - do we ever learn?). Democracy and the rule of law did not stop the internment of "enemy" civilians during WW2 and our current policy of "ooman rights" before everything else, including security, will not survive constant attacks of this nature.
We need a rethink in many areas, most particularly in immigration policy, and the Human Rights act stands in the way of many sensible measures. It is the people, not lawyers, who should be sovereign and if the law stands in the way of our peace and prosperity then the law should be changed.
In the main though I agree with your post. Armed intervention should be the very last resort in the Islamic world and we should stop our delusions of imposing democracy on the region.
Derek Smith said:
What's this about an MP (?) suggesting that the police should stop making enquiries into them defrauding the country via expenses? A link, or a name, would be useful.
Don't know Derek, but Googling that turned up this.Anti-terror police could waste less time monitoring people Caroline Lucas.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-36171778
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3223109/Anti-frac...
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