Staffie owner mauled to death by own dog during interview?
Discussion
People always say "it's never a Shih Tzu in these sort of attacks". Well, maybe not for a fatal attack, but I once gave first aid to a young lad (3 or 4 years old) who had been bitten on the face by the family Shih Tzu, tearing off part of his bottom lip and carving four distinct tears into the flesh of his face. It was funny because I've known bust lips to bleed like crazy but wound itself didn't really bleed much after some compression. It looked as though someone had dragged a red-hot dinner fork down his face.
I did once speak to a retired police dog handler who went to a job in the early 90's where a toddler had been killed by some other insignificant breed like a Jack Russell. It had been left unattended with the dog and crawled towards the dog's food bowl. No matter how much you trust a dog, it is ultimately a feckless and vain animal that will feign affection for a human in order to get what it wants, which is food and shelter. In this case, the dog perceived the toddler as a threat and mauled it. Apparently, the child had been savaged, and a formerly lovely dog had not only defended it's pile of food but sought a jealous retribution against the baby with multiple gouging bites to the face and neck. His golden rule was never to get between a dog and it's food, particularly one you don't know well.
I did once speak to a retired police dog handler who went to a job in the early 90's where a toddler had been killed by some other insignificant breed like a Jack Russell. It had been left unattended with the dog and crawled towards the dog's food bowl. No matter how much you trust a dog, it is ultimately a feckless and vain animal that will feign affection for a human in order to get what it wants, which is food and shelter. In this case, the dog perceived the toddler as a threat and mauled it. Apparently, the child had been savaged, and a formerly lovely dog had not only defended it's pile of food but sought a jealous retribution against the baby with multiple gouging bites to the face and neck. His golden rule was never to get between a dog and it's food, particularly one you don't know well.
DanielSan said:
wc98 said:
i am having trouble understanding how a staffie managed to do this to a grown adult. would be interested to see pics of this "staffie" .
there are a lot of dogs being labeled staffies these days due to the dangerous dogs legislation that are not staffie's at all,but various bull breed crosses.
They might not look very big but any staffy I've come across are strong dogs, I can imagine a pissed off one being very hard to fend off for long.there are a lot of dogs being labeled staffies these days due to the dangerous dogs legislation that are not staffie's at all,but various bull breed crosses.
If I visit just after having a shave then trying to stop the younger male from slobbering my face is hard work and that's with him being friendly, I really wouldn't like to try and fend him off if he was angry.
He's like a Terminator but with a single minded pursuit of slobbering people...
"Listen, and understand. That
Loyly said:
No matter how much you trust a dog, it is ultimately a feckless and vain animal that will feign affection for a human in order to get what it wants, which is food and shelter.
That paragraph describes Human's far more accurately than it describes Dogs.Every species is on the take.,. unfortunately we're better at it
rallycross said:
The best answer would be to shoot them (the owners not the dogs, no loss to society).
The point is no one needs dangerous dogs as pets.
How do you (obviously not you personally) decide which one is dangerous. Plenty of stories that otherwise fantastic family pet went postal and I really think that most people wouldn't be able to react as fast as necessary.The point is no one needs dangerous dogs as pets.
jjlynn27 said:
rallycross said:
The best answer would be to shoot them (the owners not the dogs, no loss to society).
The point is no one needs dangerous dogs as pets.
How do you (obviously not you personally) decide which one is dangerous. Plenty of stories that otherwise fantastic family pet went postal and I really think that most people wouldn't be able to react as fast as necessary.The point is no one needs dangerous dogs as pets.
If you have a dog from a puppy (with kids around) you will know their personality so intimately that common sense will tell you if you can trust them or not - my GSD is so gentle with us and even when other dogs have attacked him in the park he just looks at them and carried on sniffing the ground...he also loves people giving him attention. He is part of the family and I trust him implicitly.
However he also knows how to do his job, so woe betide anyone who comes onto our pack territory who wasn't invited !!!
What would say though, equally if I had a child under the age of 10 and a fully grown GSD I wouldn't leave them unsupervised as a dog who is playing can still hurt just by jumping up.
bulldong said:
It was from a working background but not used as working dog. It never showed any malice whatsoever when I saw it and was great with the kids. Genuinely lovely dog, I don't know the precise details as it's still fairly raw so haven't asked. Probably won't.
We have a daughter the same age (4) who is literally obsessed with animals. She is very sensitive towards them and just so passionate about them. Our rule with her which she has always followed (quite sweet to see) is that if there is a dog in the street she has to ask the owner if she can stroke it before she touches it. You would be surprised the number of owners who say no because they know their dog has snapped before or the dog is afraid or nervous. My absolute rule though is that if there is a dog, our daughter can play with it but under no circumstances would we leave her unsupervised.
It's weird because I like dogs a lot and had up to 4 in the house at a time when I was growing up, but even a small dog can overwhelm a small child in a second and you/the child/the owner/the dog have/has to live with the outcome for the rest of your/their lives.
I would like a dog but right now our life is all over the place living in different countries and expat lifestyle it just doesn't lend itself to extra responsibility particularly so I don't think it would be fair to the animal. One day though.
Just lost ours after 13.5yrs, he was a truly wonderful dog & our kids grew up with him but mess with him & he'd snarl & show his teeth. I never 100% trust any dog & our kids were brought up to respect him & not cross that boundary so it was never an issue, lot's get rehomed after aggression towards kids though sadly. We have a daughter the same age (4) who is literally obsessed with animals. She is very sensitive towards them and just so passionate about them. Our rule with her which she has always followed (quite sweet to see) is that if there is a dog in the street she has to ask the owner if she can stroke it before she touches it. You would be surprised the number of owners who say no because they know their dog has snapped before or the dog is afraid or nervous. My absolute rule though is that if there is a dog, our daughter can play with it but under no circumstances would we leave her unsupervised.
It's weird because I like dogs a lot and had up to 4 in the house at a time when I was growing up, but even a small dog can overwhelm a small child in a second and you/the child/the owner/the dog have/has to live with the outcome for the rest of your/their lives.
I would like a dog but right now our life is all over the place living in different countries and expat lifestyle it just doesn't lend itself to extra responsibility particularly so I don't think it would be fair to the animal. One day though.
They look so cute people don't understand they are a living animal & you need to know their limits.
pidsy said:
Well, staffs are the breed of choice on your local estate but there is an alarming number of newly bred "bull-lurchers" hitting the streets and consequently, the rescue centres.
My family has ties with a lurcher rescue centre in Surrey and they are very concerned about the rise in popularity with these cross breeds. They are very unstable as a breed and crossing a pit bull with a lurched means you end up with aggression and musculature off a Pit while being bigger and having the speed and hunting ability of a lurcher.
I met 2 last time we were down at the centre - grey, short coated, and they were properly mental. They had to be muzzled at all times they were out of their crate.
Bull lurchers are not generally pit bull crosses. They are usually greyhounds or whippets crossed with staffies. The 'bull' terminology refers to bull breeds, not pit bulls specifically. I've owned one myself and he was the the softest dog I've known, despite having obviously been worked based on the number of scars he had.My family has ties with a lurcher rescue centre in Surrey and they are very concerned about the rise in popularity with these cross breeds. They are very unstable as a breed and crossing a pit bull with a lurched means you end up with aggression and musculature off a Pit while being bigger and having the speed and hunting ability of a lurcher.
I met 2 last time we were down at the centre - grey, short coated, and they were properly mental. They had to be muzzled at all times they were out of their crate.
pidsy said:
That's the point I was making - bull lurchers as a breed have been around for a long long time. The issue for the rescue centres is that they are now being bred to enhance their aggression and strength.
The staffy input is being changed out for pit bull parentage.
Exactly how would you know if it is pit bull parentage on a wide scale?The staffy input is being changed out for pit bull parentage.
I had a year old recycled Giant Schnauzer. I've had six dogs and this one took to training like no other. It would stay even if I was away from it, out of sight and in anothr room. People would try to get it respond but it would not. I even got it to refuse food from anyone but me or my wife.
It was a beautiful looking dog but people would compliment its behaviour rather than looks. The only untrained response I got was when it was approached by children of a few years either side of 10. It would turn its head away and if they tried to touch it it would lay down. I thought that this was a good thing. It would play gently with my kids.
I let it run off lead as it would turn to come back instantly when called. One day, after having the dog for about a year, I heard it yelping, seemingly in pain. It was out of sight but I ran to the sound only to find in cowering away from a crying 10 year. I did what anyone would have done, and that was to say to the kid, 'What did you do to my dog?'
About three months later it head butted a child of the same age in the chest, knocking him flying. All the kid had done was to run past. The dog then yelped, just like before.
I decided to monitor the dog with kids and not let it out of sight. A few weeks later I was at a local rugby match, the dog behaving impeccably, as it always did. We were standing near the toilets. Two kids ran out and my dog jumped up from the sitting position and headbutted one in the chest knocking him into one behind.
I'd got the dog from a breeder who'd had it returned to her. I was told it was 'too big' for the family. After further investigation it turned out that they had two kids who used to torment it but 'it never bit them or anything. Just ran into them.'
I had a chat with a local vet who really liked the dog. I explained everything and asked him what I could do. He said put her down. He got really upset, as indeed did I.
As he said, I would never know what she might do.
I had another rescue dog, again a big one, a Bouvier. She had been ill-treated we think but was calm as you like. She'd lost a toe and had had a dew claw seemingly ripped from her leg given the scar. The only bit of behaviour that suggested she'd been hit was when I picked up a bit of branch to see if she'd retrieve. She backed away, giving little yelps.
When she was flat out on the floor a kid on a little three-wheeler cycled into her at a fair old clip. She was off the lead. She jumped up, came to me and sat beside me. The mother of the child came over to apologise and asked if she could pet the dog.
Our last dog was one a breeder didn't want any more. She was wilful in the sense that she would not train. All my dogs would sit, stand, come, lay, and all other normal stuff, but not our last one. She was stunning though. A real cracker, and a triple champion.
She was the one that I felt I could trust implicitly. She would not react. But you never know. I never let my kids, or anyone else's, be in the room with my dogs without me or my wife being present.
It was a beautiful looking dog but people would compliment its behaviour rather than looks. The only untrained response I got was when it was approached by children of a few years either side of 10. It would turn its head away and if they tried to touch it it would lay down. I thought that this was a good thing. It would play gently with my kids.
I let it run off lead as it would turn to come back instantly when called. One day, after having the dog for about a year, I heard it yelping, seemingly in pain. It was out of sight but I ran to the sound only to find in cowering away from a crying 10 year. I did what anyone would have done, and that was to say to the kid, 'What did you do to my dog?'
About three months later it head butted a child of the same age in the chest, knocking him flying. All the kid had done was to run past. The dog then yelped, just like before.
I decided to monitor the dog with kids and not let it out of sight. A few weeks later I was at a local rugby match, the dog behaving impeccably, as it always did. We were standing near the toilets. Two kids ran out and my dog jumped up from the sitting position and headbutted one in the chest knocking him into one behind.
I'd got the dog from a breeder who'd had it returned to her. I was told it was 'too big' for the family. After further investigation it turned out that they had two kids who used to torment it but 'it never bit them or anything. Just ran into them.'
I had a chat with a local vet who really liked the dog. I explained everything and asked him what I could do. He said put her down. He got really upset, as indeed did I.
As he said, I would never know what she might do.
I had another rescue dog, again a big one, a Bouvier. She had been ill-treated we think but was calm as you like. She'd lost a toe and had had a dew claw seemingly ripped from her leg given the scar. The only bit of behaviour that suggested she'd been hit was when I picked up a bit of branch to see if she'd retrieve. She backed away, giving little yelps.
When she was flat out on the floor a kid on a little three-wheeler cycled into her at a fair old clip. She was off the lead. She jumped up, came to me and sat beside me. The mother of the child came over to apologise and asked if she could pet the dog.
Our last dog was one a breeder didn't want any more. She was wilful in the sense that she would not train. All my dogs would sit, stand, come, lay, and all other normal stuff, but not our last one. She was stunning though. A real cracker, and a triple champion.
She was the one that I felt I could trust implicitly. She would not react. But you never know. I never let my kids, or anyone else's, be in the room with my dogs without me or my wife being present.
Derek Smith said:
About three months later it head butted a child of the same age in the chest, knocking him flying. All the kid had done was to run past. The dog then yelped, just like before.
I decided to monitor the dog with kids and not let it out of sight. A few weeks later I was at a local rugby match, the dog behaving impeccably, as it always did. We were standing near the toilets. Two kids ran out and my dog jumped up from the sitting position and headbutted one in the chest knocking him into one behind.
I'd got the dog from a breeder who'd had it returned to her. I was told it was 'too big' for the family. After further investigation it turned out that they had two kids who used to torment it but 'it never bit them or anything. Just ran into them.'
I had a chat with a local vet who really liked the dog. I explained everything and asked him what I could do. He said put her down. He got really upset, as indeed did I.
As he said, I would never know what she might do.
So rather then teach the dog the correct behaviours around kids you had her/he PTS? Disgusting if that is the case, you shouldn't be allowed to have a dog - sorry but things like this make me very angry. I decided to monitor the dog with kids and not let it out of sight. A few weeks later I was at a local rugby match, the dog behaving impeccably, as it always did. We were standing near the toilets. Two kids ran out and my dog jumped up from the sitting position and headbutted one in the chest knocking him into one behind.
I'd got the dog from a breeder who'd had it returned to her. I was told it was 'too big' for the family. After further investigation it turned out that they had two kids who used to torment it but 'it never bit them or anything. Just ran into them.'
I had a chat with a local vet who really liked the dog. I explained everything and asked him what I could do. He said put her down. He got really upset, as indeed did I.
As he said, I would never know what she might do.
BigLion said:
So rather then teach the dog the correct behaviours around kids you had her/he PTS? Disgusting if that is the case, you shouldn't be allowed to have a dog - sorry but things like this make me very angry.
To be fair he consulted an expert and then took his advice. Seems a sensible and responsible thing to do.BigLion said:
So rather then teach the dog the correct behaviours around kids you had her/he PTS? Disgusting if that is the case, you shouldn't be allowed to have a dog - sorry but things like this make me very angry.
The dog was the best behaved I've ever seen. I know a fair bit about dog training and she took to it better than I've ever seen any dog do. I was hated at the dog training classes.However, I have no idea how to train a dog not to react spontaneously. I'd suggest you don't either. God knows what the dog had been subjected to before I got her, but it had a major effect on her. Giant Schnauzers are big, powerful dogs. I think anyone who'd take the risk of endangering children by keeping the dog that showed such behaviour should be banned from having one.
It was a very hard decision but one that, even in retrospect, I'm glad I had the bottle to take. I knew what I had to do even before I saw the vet, but I was after having some of the pain removed. The vet, who got on really well with the dog, took a long time with me. His argument was that it was impossible for me to know that she would not react aggressively.
Three times she attacked kids in a bit less than 18mnts. The two times I saw it there was no build up. Both times she was sitting at heel. If she'd attacked a fourth, this time seriously injuring the child, what do you suggest I could have said to the parents?
So save your anger for irresponsible dog owners. There's plenty enough of those.
BigLion said:
pidsy said:
That's the point I was making - bull lurchers as a breed have been around for a long long time. The issue for the rescue centres is that they are now being bred to enhance their aggression and strength.
The staffy input is being changed out for pit bull parentage.
Exactly how would you know if it is pit bull parentage on a wide scale?The staffy input is being changed out for pit bull parentage.
Just going on what some of the rescue centres and vets within my sisters practice are saying.
Pah, staffies.
Real men on your local council estate have Dachshund - mastiff croses.
Everytime I meet a Dachund on dog walks the bloody things have a go at my dog, who just wants to play. And he's 35kg. So breed them with a mastiff and you have a dog that is grumpy and has the bulk to back it up.
I bet a Daschund mastiff cross would show a pit bull a thing or two.
Real men on your local council estate have Dachshund - mastiff croses.
Everytime I meet a Dachund on dog walks the bloody things have a go at my dog, who just wants to play. And he's 35kg. So breed them with a mastiff and you have a dog that is grumpy and has the bulk to back it up.
I bet a Daschund mastiff cross would show a pit bull a thing or two.
Let's summaerise
1. Some people get dogs for this or that or other reason.
2. Some people make bad choices
3. Some people concentrate on other things than the new dog due to their lifestyle
4. Dog gets bored and unhappy and has big teeth and lots of "calls of the wild" from his ancestors.
You don't have to be Einstein do you?
1. Some people get dogs for this or that or other reason.
2. Some people make bad choices
3. Some people concentrate on other things than the new dog due to their lifestyle
4. Dog gets bored and unhappy and has big teeth and lots of "calls of the wild" from his ancestors.
You don't have to be Einstein do you?
Gandahar said:
Pah, staffies.
Real men on your local council estate have Dachshund - mastiff croses.
Everytime I meet a Dachund on dog walks the bloody things have a go at my dog, who just wants to play. And he's 35kg. So breed them with a mastiff and you have a dog that is grumpy and has the bulk to back it up.
I bet a Daschund mastiff cross would show a pit bull a thing or two.
I see a potential flaw in your otherwise perfect plan...Real men on your local council estate have Dachshund - mastiff croses.
Everytime I meet a Dachund on dog walks the bloody things have a go at my dog, who just wants to play. And he's 35kg. So breed them with a mastiff and you have a dog that is grumpy and has the bulk to back it up.
I bet a Daschund mastiff cross would show a pit bull a thing or two.
What happens if you get the (lack of) Mastiff aggression coupled with the Dachshund size?
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