The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread

[119]

MKnight702 said:

The Moose said:

coldel said:

Now, thats not to say that parents buying guns, taking kids to shooting ranges, etc isnt just frickin mental, I agree with you on that, but hey thats America for you.

Why? I was taught to shoot (and gun safety/gun handling) at 9 or 10 years old.

Same here, my dad and granddad drilled safety into me at every turn. (The fact that my Dad's father was killed in a shooting accident helped). But teaching children how to shoot safely is a good thing, safety learned as a child will stay with you a lifetime. This unfounded horror of guns displayed by many on here is odd, at the end of the day it is an inanimate object no more, no less. The issue is always with the person operating it as with everything from a hammer to a truck.

I was never ever taught, or did i ever hold a gun.

I am trying to rack my brains as to what possible reason i would ever have the need to.

[McGee_22]

MKnight702 said:

Same here, my dad and granddad drilled safety into me at every turn. (The fact that my Dad's father was killed in a shooting accident helped). But teaching children how to shoot safely is a good thing, safety learned as a child will stay with you a lifetime. This unfounded horror of guns displayed by many on here is odd, at the end of the day it is an inanimate object no more, no less. The issue is always with the person operating it as with everything from a hammer to a truck.

Do you understand irony at all?

[Legend83]

MKnight702 said:

This unfounded horror of guns displayed by many on here is odd, at the end of the day it is an inanimate object no more, no less. The issue is always with the person operating it as with everything from a hammer to a truck.

What use does a gun have other than to fire a piece of metal at extreme velocity (at something or someone)?

A hammer has use as a tool from carpentry to plumbing to set design, a truck to transport food, goods, energy.

[eharding]

McGee_22 said:

MKnight702 said:

Same here, my dad and granddad drilled safety into me at every turn. (The fact that my Dad's father was killed in a shooting accident helped). But teaching children how to shoot safely is a good thing, safety learned as a child will stay with you a lifetime. This unfounded horror of guns displayed by many on here is odd, at the end of the day it is an inanimate object no more, no less. The issue is always with the person operating it as with everything from a hammer to a truck.

Do you understand irony at all?

It's tempting to come to that conclusion, but we'd need to know the circumstances of MKnight702's grandfathers unfortunate demise to be sure.

For example, it might have been that MKnight702 Snr Snr was walking in the woods one day when he was accosted by a very hungry, very large momma Grizzly bear and her cubs, and Momma Grizzly was making it very clear that she was going to turn grandpappy into bear-poo.

Grandpappy, doing what any God-fearing 2A advocate would do and being fully prepared for such an encounter, draws his trusty M1911 that great-grandpappy had used at Iwo Jima, and tries to put a round of .45 ACP straight into the Momma Grizzly's brain pan - thus far it's all classic 2nd Amendment justification stuff.

Unfortunately , the 1911 misfires, jams and sends a very underpowered round which catches Momma Bear a painful glancing blow on the chuff. Result: A slap-up dinner for the Grizzly family, the cubs get an M1911 to play with, and it's bear-poo city, population grandad. Now, I'd say that would qualify as a firearms accident, but not in the sense that had the firearm not been present the fatality would not have occurred.

However, I grant you that's almost certainly all complete horlicks, but you can never be sure without knowing all the facts.

Edited: Wrong grandad.

Edited by eharding on Friday 12th April 22:02

[Blib]

It's a compelling argument, eharding.

[djc206]

alabbasi said:

In my experience, most Americans have very little interest in additional government control of any kind. A good example of this pertaining to firearms is the pistol brace laws that suddenly turned law abiding citizens who legally purchased them into felons overnight. The law was subsequently blocked.

Your experience doesn’t correlate with polling on the matter. Most Americans polled support stricter gun control legislation and that’s mostly been the case for decades.

[vaud]

119 said:

I was never ever taught, or did i ever hold a gun.

I am trying to rack my brains as to what possible reason i would ever have the need to.

If you grow up around farms then (small) guns are used regularly to control some wildlife.

Again there is a world of difference between a .22 air rifle on a farm and having a shotgun in central London.

[McGee_22]

vaud said:

If you grow up around farms then (small) guns are used regularly to control some wildlife.

Again there is a world of difference between a .22 air rifle on a farm and having a shotgun in central London.

There is a world of difference between having a single shot rifle or shotgun for animal control and an automatic machine gun for sts and thrills, isn’t there?

[The Moose]

McGee_22 said:

vaud said:

If you grow up around farms then (small) guns are used regularly to control some wildlife.

Again there is a world of difference between a .22 air rifle on a farm and having a shotgun in central London.

There is a world of difference between having a single shot rifle or shotgun for animal control and an automatic machine gun for sts and thrills, isn’t there?

Almost no one owns an automatic machine gun…

[The Moose]

KaraK said:

It isn't something that floats my boat particularly but I've known several people over the years here in the UK that do shooting of some form and not one of them has ever complained about the restrictions here or wished they were reduced. Yes there's non-trivial expense, and practicalities that have be borne, but the same is true of any (for want of a better word) "dangerous" hobby. Motorsport can (and often is) dangerous - and many of the safety-focussed requirements that come with participating beyond arrive and drive karting are expensive, and/or require participants to jump through various hoops to prove they can do so safely, same is true of the more casual incarnation of the petrol head. You want to just go for a drive on the public roads you have the be licensed, you have buy or rent a vehicle, that vehicle needs to be a certain level of roadworthiness etc.

So, accepting that shooting as a sport/hobby is a legitimate use of guns, even the sorts of guns that could be used (or misused if you prefer) to hurt, even kill people, and with yourself being someone who enjoys that sport/hobby where's the trade-off point for you personally?

If we go from a hypothetical 0 - no restrictions, guns are cheap and readily available and within financial reach of pretty much anyone who isn't on the breadline to a 10 - guns are very expensive, only those with a high disposable income (say.. earning $100k+ a year) can likely afford to buy and run them, and you have to undergo substantial vetting before purchase, and they have to be securely stored when not being used in an approved sporting environment. Let's ignore any slippery slope or anything like that, and say that you're the one writing the laws and only you can change them - where do you sit?

You can look at the shooting thread on PH to see some complaints!

Your hypothetical scale is, frankly, mad! There’s no reason why anyone should be financially restricted from owning or shooting a firearm. I have no problem with restrictions (e.g. felons not being allowed to be in possession etc). I don’t see any need for the cost to be tied to any ‘vetting’.

[alabbasi]

djc206 said:

Your experience doesn’t correlate with polling on the matter. Most Americans polled support stricter gun control legislation and that’s mostly been the case for decades.

Most Americans don't respond to polls.

[Byker28i]

These aren't one off. Gallup have been polling this for many years
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

Pew Research have some good figures on Guns overall
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/13...

[Blib]

The Moose said:

Almost no one owns an automatic machine gun…

Almost no one?

Well, that's OK then.

There are twenty million semi automatic AR-15 rifles in the US.

Plus roughly 750,000 fully automatic machine guns.

[djc206]

alabbasi said:

djc206 said:

Your experience doesn’t correlate with polling on the matter. Most Americans polled support stricter gun control legislation and that’s mostly been the case for decades.

Most Americans don't respond to polls.

They don’t need to.

[Byker28i]

The thing is, it's a consistent message, the the majority want gun reform
https://iop.harvard.edu/news/harvard-iop-youth-pol...
https://www.npr.org/2023/05/24/1177779153/poll-mos...
https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2023/05/03/vanderbilt-...

The trouble is, when you've the NRA plowing cash in to the GOP
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_congressiona...

Open Secrets has a huge breakdown. Money of course is king in US politics.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-7PdCI2Naw...

Thats before those compromised by the russian money redirected through the NRA in 2016

[alabbasi]

djc206 said:

They don’t need to.

Alright, let's see how that works out.

[djc206]

alabbasi said:

djc206 said:

They don’t need to.

Alright, let's see how that works out.

We already have. It’s why this thread exists.

[alabbasi]

djc206 said:

We already have. It’s why this thread exists.

OK lets see what difference this thread makes.

[djc206]

alabbasi said:

djc206 said:

We already have. It’s why this thread exists.

OK lets see what difference this thread makes.

If repeated school shootings don’t change anything I think we can safely conclude that a PH discussion isn’t going to influence anything, it’s still an interesting topic to discuss though.

[McGee_22]

Sandy Hook was the barometer of whether Americans think the 2nd Amendment or the lives of children was more important.

Everything that followed that just added bullet points to their justification as to why guns are so important to their national psyche.