The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread
Discussion
jimmyjimjim said:
The request was for a ggwag example.
I thought of two off the top of my head, without having to resort to Google (except to find a link). I note you don't mention the other example at all?
I just did a quick google searched for 'stopped a robbery' and got pages back. Here's an example where an off duty female correctional officer in TN stopped an armed robber at a gas station last month: https://www.police1.com/correctional-officer/tenn-...I thought of two off the top of my head, without having to resort to Google (except to find a link). I note you don't mention the other example at all?
I suspect that neither robberies or stopping a robbery make the news or international news unless there are fatalities involved so yes, you won't hear about it too often.
alabbasi said:
jimmyjimjim said:
The request was for a ggwag example.
I thought of two off the top of my head, without having to resort to Google (except to find a link). I note you don't mention the other example at all?
I just did a quick google searched for 'stopped a robbery' and got pages back. Here's an example where an off duty female correctional officer in TN stopped an armed robber at a gas station last month: https://www.police1.com/correctional-officer/tenn-...I thought of two off the top of my head, without having to resort to Google (except to find a link). I note you don't mention the other example at all?
I suspect that neither robberies or stopping a robbery make the news or international news unless there are fatalities involved so yes, you won't hear about it too often.
"The California Attorney General declined to file criminal charges against a Los Angeles police officer who fired a rifle at a suspect inside a clothing store in 2021, killing a 14-year-old girl in a dressing room, authorities said Wednesday
...
The department’s civilian oversight board ruled in 2022 that Jones was justified in firing once but that his two subsequent shots were out of policy. Police Chief Michel Moore, who has since retired, previously found in his own review that all three shots were unjustified."
https://www.police1.com/investigations/calif-ag-de...
Byker28i said:
andyA700 said:
Brother D said:
djc206 said:
alabbasi said:
dvs_dave said:
I’m a US citizen, live in Chicago, and have an Illinois Firearm Owner’s ID.
Ahh yes, the city with one of the strictest firearms laws in the country. Last time I was there, I saw security guards and barriers in between the public and the staff at the KFC down the road from my hotel. So how are these firearm laws working out for you?But regarding guns and shootings there is a clear cultural aspect to it.
https://heyjackass.com/category/chicago-crime-2023...
You'll notice there's also an even higher gender bias - but you didn't mention that?
Hasn't Chicago been the worse place for shootings and murders in the US for over a decade? Even more reasons for gun controls surely.
However shootings dropped 13% in Chicago last year
https://news.wttw.com/2024/01/02/shootings-homicid...
https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shooting-shootings...
Now if we look into historical figures we find
Chicago is very racially segregated, and the safety gap between Chicago’s Black and white residents persists:
The safety gap is shrinking from its high-water mark in 2021, where the homicide rate for Black residents was 40x that for white residents.
In 2023, the disparity in homicide rates between Black and white residents decreased by 50% compared to 2021. Even with this reduction, the homicide rate for Black residents was 20 times higher than for white residents.
Also
It really is the case that a tiny share of blocks account for a disproportionate amount of gun violence.
https://crimelab.uchicago.edu/resources/trend/
Edited by Byker28i on Thursday 18th April 14:35
Edited by Byker28i on Thursday 18th April 14:37
djc206 said:
If Chicago is that f
ked why oh why would you add more firearms to the mix? Then you’d turn somewhere with huge problems into somewhere from one of those post apocalyptic movies. The answer is clearly not more guns when you’ve got more murders taking place in one city than the entire U.K.
Hmm, the high murder rates might be because the police are over stretched and can't be everywhere at once. The criminals who ignore the gun laws are empowered because they know their victims don't ignore the laws. That's how the law works to their advantage. ked why oh why would you add more firearms to the mix? Then you’d turn somewhere with huge problems into somewhere from one of those post apocalyptic movies. The answer is clearly not more guns when you’ve got more murders taking place in one city than the entire U.K. Look, I understand that you don't live here and it's hard to make sense of it. I don't understand the ultra low emissions charge when most particulates come from construction, tires and brakes. I don't understand Brexit without tougher migration policies and welfare reform.
Gun laws are strict. It's legal in other states to own a firearm but it's a serious thing everywhere to use one. Brandishing is illegal and discharging a firearm inside the city limits will ruin someone financially and send them to prison. The problems with Chicago is that the criminals are brazen because they know that can be. It's that simple.
alabbasi said:
So Chicago has a problem because guns are coming in from all these other parts of the country that don't have the same problem? That's a poor excuse don't you think?
The loud mouth comments from the idiot who says he lives there suggests that if someone finds it unpleasant to walk into a store or restaurant where everything is locked behind a cage, making you feel automatically like a criminal, and where companies like Walmart are closing half their stores due to losing millions of dollars in stock loss... The reason must be because people who have my views are either afraid or radicalized. It can't be because Chicago is a mismanaged city with ineffective laws that take the rights away from law abiding citizens and give criminals an advantage over them.
I can guarantee that the 17 armed robberies in Chicago in the last 3 days were not done by law abiding people who have no criminal records who can pass a background check.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-poli...
Do you not recognise that the US has a serious problem ?The loud mouth comments from the idiot who says he lives there suggests that if someone finds it unpleasant to walk into a store or restaurant where everything is locked behind a cage, making you feel automatically like a criminal, and where companies like Walmart are closing half their stores due to losing millions of dollars in stock loss... The reason must be because people who have my views are either afraid or radicalized. It can't be because Chicago is a mismanaged city with ineffective laws that take the rights away from law abiding citizens and give criminals an advantage over them.
I can guarantee that the 17 armed robberies in Chicago in the last 3 days were not done by law abiding people who have no criminal records who can pass a background check.
https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/chicago-poli...
Edited by alabbasi on Thursday 18th April 15:14
alabbasi said:
Hmm, the high murder rates might be because the police are over stretched and can't be everywhere at once. The criminals who ignore the gun laws are empowered because they know their victims don't ignore the laws. That's how the law works to their advantage.
Look, I understand that you don't live here and it's hard to make sense of it. I don't understand the ultra low emissions charge when most particulates come from construction, tires and brakes. I don't understand Brexit without tougher migration policies and welfare reform.
Gun laws are strict. It's legal in other states to own a firearm but it's a serious thing everywhere to use one. Brandishing is illegal and discharging a firearm inside the city limits will ruin someone financially and send them to prison. The problems with Chicago is that the criminals are brazen because they know that can be. It's that simple.
I don’t think murder rates are well correlated to police availability. Murder is a social/cultural thing, people have to believe life is cheap to take a life and that’s not something that is addressed through enforcement. Chicago has a fairly typical murder solve rate for the US as it happens so the risks are broadly average.Look, I understand that you don't live here and it's hard to make sense of it. I don't understand the ultra low emissions charge when most particulates come from construction, tires and brakes. I don't understand Brexit without tougher migration policies and welfare reform.
Gun laws are strict. It's legal in other states to own a firearm but it's a serious thing everywhere to use one. Brandishing is illegal and discharging a firearm inside the city limits will ruin someone financially and send them to prison. The problems with Chicago is that the criminals are brazen because they know that can be. It's that simple.
Chicago’s issues with guns seem very much related to gang crime. The point stands that these gangs are able to arm themselves through easy access to firearms.
It’s not that I struggle to make sense of it, it just doesn’t make sense. The US stands alone in its thinking wrt guns, there’s a reason for that it’s just that some people refuse to see it. I get it guns are fun, if I lived in the US I would probably own some, I’d never carry one for personal protection because the moment you’re so scared for your wellbeing that you lug around a firearm it’s time to move but I do understand the desire to continue to be allowed to own and shoot guns. The rest of the civilised world has restricted that on very good grounds and the proof is in the pudding. It’s not me that’s struggling to make sense of things it’s anyone that thinks that the answer to violence is more weapons.
For what it’s worth I don’t think anyone other than Sadiq Khan understands ULEZ.
Gary C said:
Do you not recognize that the US has a serious problem ?
I've spent equal time living in the US and living in the UK. By far, I feel safer living here. Seeing violence is a rare site where I live. I just don't see it. Break ins are rare, but when they happen, it's usually during the day while people are out and not while they're asleep in the house The statistics everyone here talks about are usually related to gang crime on the other side of town and have nothing to do with where I live. It does not come anywhere close to where i live. By contrast, every time I go home to London (4 times last year), I've witnessed a violent incident at a pub or on the street. Two people I know very well in London who are now in their late 80's were mugged last year. I lived in a nice neighborhood in London, the house I grew up in is probably worth 4x what mine is worth here yet this is what the people who live there have to put up with. So yes, the US has serious problems but you think you have it better because it's all you hear in the news and you're desensitized to your own enviroment.
The safest place I've ever lived in was in the Middle East. You'd never think so if all you did was watch the news.
djc206 said:
Chicago’s issues with guns seem very much related to gang crime. The point stands that these gangs are able to arm themselves through easy access to firearms.
It also stands that gangs can just as easily have access to firearms in Texas. It's just not as easy for them to rob people. alabbasi said:
I've spent equal time living in the US and living in the UK. By far, I feel safer living here. Seeing violence is a rare site where I live. I just don't see it. Break ins are rare, but when they happen, it's usually during the day while people are out and not while they're asleep in the house The statistics everyone here talks about are usually related to gang crime on the other side of town and have nothing to do with where I live. It does not come anywhere close to where i live.
By contrast, every time I go home to London (4 times last year), I've witnessed a violent incident at a pub or on the street. Two people I know very well in London who are now in their late 80's were mugged last year. I lived in a nice neighborhood in London, the house I grew up in is probably worth 4x what mine is worth here yet this is what the people who live there have to put up with. So yes, the US has serious problems but you think you have it better because it's all you hear in the news and you're desensitized to your own enviroment.
The safest place I've ever lived in was in the Middle East. You'd never think so if all you did was watch the news.
Do you mind me asking roughly where you live in the States?By contrast, every time I go home to London (4 times last year), I've witnessed a violent incident at a pub or on the street. Two people I know very well in London who are now in their late 80's were mugged last year. I lived in a nice neighborhood in London, the house I grew up in is probably worth 4x what mine is worth here yet this is what the people who live there have to put up with. So yes, the US has serious problems but you think you have it better because it's all you hear in the news and you're desensitized to your own enviroment.
The safest place I've ever lived in was in the Middle East. You'd never think so if all you did was watch the news.
Much of the Middle East is very safe unless the police take umbrage to something you’ve done or possibly not done or you’re an immigrant from a country that isn’t going to kick up a stink about your rape/beating/murder.
alabbasi said:
djc206 said:
Chicago’s issues with guns seem very much related to gang crime. The point stands that these gangs are able to arm themselves through easy access to firearms.
It also stands that gangs can just as easily have access to firearms in Texas. It's just not as easy for them to rob people. You've demonstrated that your politics drives your thinking by throwing all kinds of dirt at people who have opposing views to yours. You sound like a radical. Why don't you relax and take responsibility for where you live instead of blaming it on others?
dvs_dave said:
Moronically and uncritically calling out Chicago for it's well publicized problems because a despicable narcissist criminal president made it his poster child, when the place you're from (Dallas, TX I believe, but you've removed that detail from your profile, wonder why?) actually has a far worse murder rate (9th on the list vs 27th for Chicago) so hardly the crime free utopia you scaredy cat tough guys like to falsely claim.
https://wallethub.com/edu/cities-homicide-rate/940...
Either way, pitting cities against each other is pointless. It's a US wide problem not driven by a lack of laws, but the woeful enforcement of them, encouraged by people/places like yours pushing the ban everything except guns and white Christian fundamentalism dogma. It's you lot that give the US a bad name, are making it weaker, and a laughing stock on the world stage. You call yourselves patriots, but the only thing I'm seeing from your actual direct actions is weakening the country so you're more like traitors.
https://wallethub.com/edu/cities-homicide-rate/940...
Either way, pitting cities against each other is pointless. It's a US wide problem not driven by a lack of laws, but the woeful enforcement of them, encouraged by people/places like yours pushing the ban everything except guns and white Christian fundamentalism dogma. It's you lot that give the US a bad name, are making it weaker, and a laughing stock on the world stage. You call yourselves patriots, but the only thing I'm seeing from your actual direct actions is weakening the country so you're more like traitors.
alabbasi said:
I live in North Dallas, Texas. I'm sure that if you look up statistics. You'll find plenty that will support a narrative that it's less safe then say West London where I grew up. But in the real world, it's nonsense.
I like Dallas, love Texas so I’m not going to knock it.I think we’re talking about different aspects of safety. For me threat to my life is most important, sure I’d rather not get mugged or burgled and the UK isn’t doing enough to tackle those sort of offences but we are very safe overall. In the US the threat to life is higher even if the threat of robbery and burglary is slightly less. The US overall has a five times higher murder rate than the U.K, that’s a staggering disparity. Dallas’ murder rate is over a dozen times that of London. It can’t just be lazily chalked up to gangs either.
You mentioned pub violence as if bar fights aren’t a thing in the US, a right of passage in some parts! Often followed by some good old fashioned drink driving. I’m also not sure it’s as much of a thing as it used to be to have a scrap after a skinful these days here, I’ve not seen a pub fight in a long time but I’m not a big fan of city centre bar scenes these days so that might explain it.
alabbasi said:
I live in North Dallas, Texas. I'm sure that if you look up statistics. You'll find plenty that will support a narrative that it's less safe then say West London where I grew up. But in the real world, it's nonsense.
You're calling out Chicago, but it seems Dallas has a far worse homicide problem. 9th vs 27th for Chicago. You should think about tooling up more on your home turf to be that good guy for the rare times you feel brave enough to venture out of your demographically monotonous McMansion suburb with no sidewalks and into town.https://wallethub.com/edu/cities-homicide-rate/940...
Regardless, it's not a city-to-city, or laws problem. It's the inconsistency of laws, and the woeful enforcement of them across the US. That's the problem that the "ban everything except guns and white Christians" crowd refuse to accept or do anything about.
alabbasi said:
You've demonstrated that your politics drives your thinking by throwing all kinds of dirt at people who have opposing views to yours. You sound like a radical. Why don't you relax and take responsibility for where you live instead of blaming it on others?
Cute. How about telling me how I'm wrong? djc206 said:
A fair rebuttal to the point about how easy it is to rob people in Texas no?
Not really, but you might have to live here to understand, Here's a long winded answer:There are horrible parts of Dallas, which like most big cities is run by left leaning activists that tax and spend on initiatives that don't seem to serve anybody. The murder statistics are mostly related to gang violence that's kept within a certain area where the gangs are. Their turf. and I don't go there day or night and it does not effect me.
I live just outside the Dallas county line. I pay about $8000/year in property taxes. It's a lot of money, the majority of it goes to schools and we have a good school district. This brings people who care about their kids education to the city / county and the kids generally tend to be good kids. The rest of the money seems to be well spent on the community that includes a well funded police department. Our trash is picked up weekly and that includes bulk trash (bear with me). You can chop down a tree and the city will pick it up on Friday and be back next Friday to pick up anything other bulk trash you may have. We have beautiful parks outside my house which I run there every day. Every week, there's a crew of groundskeepers that keep it well presented. It's a full time crew that moves from park to park. It's a nice place to live and we like to keep it that way which is why I don't mind the taxes.
By contrast, when I go back to see my parents in West London, even though my parents house value is 4x mine, there is rubbish everywhere, the parks are in a horrible state, it looks like every paving stone was hit with a sledge hammer and I'm baffled by the number of kids I see loitering around the shopping centers when they should be at school.
You look at statistics and see the homicide rate in Dallas @ 12 per 100k which in a population of 1.3m, which works out to 150 homicides. In London @ 1.6 per 100k which is about 144 homicides (i'm sorry I don't have robbery statistics so I'm switching gears on you). You don't see the neighborhoods. I've read about two deaths in my fathers neighborhood (i'm on next door for that area) that were within 5 minutes of his home. My next door just posts about dogs who are lost and found so I'd bet that if you actually lived here, you'd feel safer then you would anywhere in London.
So what's this all got to do with guns? One can argue that people who take responsibility for their own family's safety make a good deterrent. Or you can argue that guns have nothing to do with anything. Either way, whatever the politicians are doing in places like California and Chicago, which they blame on legal gun owners probably has nothing to do with legal gun ownership. Whether people abroad like it or not, people have a constitutional right to protect themselves from tyranny and from people who attack them and their families. The states that have the most problems are those where the municipalities' have tried to take those rights away so it's clearly not the answer.
That describes suburban vs urban life in literally every western city, American, European, wherever. It’s not in any way shape or form any sort of sensible justification for lax gun control and enforcement.
It’s just suburbs are often nicer places to live and with less crime than in cities….well no st!
It’s just suburbs are often nicer places to live and with less crime than in cities….well no s
t!Edited by dvs_dave on Thursday 18th April 23:50
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