UK asylum seekers expected to be flown to Rwanda

[glazbagun]

thetapeworm said:

How do other countries manage this kind of thing effectively or don't they? Is that why people keep going until they reach the UK to be with their friends and family?

(I don't know, I'm asking to try and learn)

We see the images of fenced-off woodland in France with people breaking out to try and get into lorries but what is there at the point of entry or within the country to house / process asylum seekers? How do places like iran and Turkey (I think they take the most asylum seekers?), Greece, Germany, Columbia, Pakistan etc handle things?

There's something like 110 million displaced people floating around looking for asylum, 43% of them are children, over 50% come from three places and around 69% are housed in neighbouring countries according to:

https://www.unhcr.org/refugee-statistics/

I do wonder how the EU could, say, cut a deal with Turkey to stop migrants flooding into Hungary/Germany. IIRC they gave them £3BN to support migrant centres in Turkey, but that doesn't stop people crossing the border if they want, it just stops them starving to death. Is it a more militarised society or are there well guarded checkpoints in the north of the country or does accepting help effectively keep you in a prison camp you can't leave without permission? Or is a roof over your head and relative short term safety all you need to dissuade you from a trek of a thousand miles across multiple countries in the back of a lorry driven by criminals?

Expecting the French to somehow monitor their massive northern coast in case twenty men and a dinghy show up is a big ask, but Turkey is somehow stopping people from just plain walking into Europe. Has the flood just stopped after Syria has stabilised a bit?

It was the first big crisis after the '08 crash IMO & probably helped Brexit. But it also showed up how disfunctional the EU was when fast action was needed. We could have collectively taken in the whole population of Syria and barely even noticed, but instead we had some countries actively encouraging them to walk through other countries who were trying to put up fences..

[Mrr T]

272BHP said:

z4RRSchris said:

nimby reform voter: the country does not have the infrastructure to house all these people

same voter: i WILL object passionately to new homes being build with 35% affordable and a massive 106 payment on an old golf course i never used and couldn't access 2 miles from my house.

Infrastructure is not just houses - that is the easy bit.

Many of these migrants are just the foothold and then they will then attempt to get their extended family here over time. Some cultures also have arranged marriages agreed in principle and and will then bring their wife over and in time attempt to get her family over as well. The majority of marriages in many immigrant areas are to spouses who are overseas.

Towns and cities simply cannot handle this type of population explosion.

Since all your claims above are complete rubbish it's not such a problem.

[272BHP]

Mrr T said:

Since all your claims above are complete rubbish it's not such a problem.

All these people are just appearing as if by magic I guess?

There is a reason some places have more immigration lawyers than they do Tesco shops.

[blueg33]

272BHP said:

Mrr T said:

Since all your claims above are complete rubbish it's not such a problem.

All these people are just appearing as if by magic I guess?

There is a reason some places have more immigration lawyers than they do Tesco shops.

London has more financial litigation lawyers than any other city. Does that mean that all Londoners are fraudsters?

[Mrr T]

272BHP said:

Mrr T said:

Since all your claims above are complete rubbish it's not such a problem.

All these people are just appearing as if by magic I guess?

There is a reason some places have more immigration lawyers than they do Tesco shops.

What people? Are you one of the posters who sees some darker skinned faces and assumed they are all immigrants? Guess what many will be as British as you or I.

Does not matter how many lawyers there are if a visa type does not exist they cannot make it up.

So yes your post is rubbish.

[s1962a]

Tory minister appears to mix up Rwanda and Congo

oh dear

[blueg33]

s1962a said:

Tory minister appears to mix up Rwanda and Congo

oh dear

Of course, brown people live there, they must be the same

No Umbongo for that minister

[E63eeeeee...]

272BHP said:

Mrr T said:

Since all your claims above are complete rubbish it's not such a problem.

All these people are just appearing as if by magic I guess?

There is a reason some places have more immigration lawyers than they do Tesco shops.

Is it because the endless pandering to simplistic politically driven solutions has left UK immigration law staggeringly complicated and basically impossible to navigate for a normal person? I bet it's that.

Or is it that Tesco deliberately spread their shops around so they don't compete with each other? Could be that too.

[272BHP]

Mrr T said:

What people? Are you one of the posters who sees some darker skinned faces and assumed they are all immigrants? Guess what many will be as British as you or I.

Does not matter how many lawyers there are if a visa type does not exist they cannot make it up.

So yes your post is rubbish.

The 1.2 million who migrated to the UK last year - those people.

[z4RRSchris]

Greece, which being the first port of call for many migrants coming from Africa takes a huge number. They passed a law in December giving people a 3 year visa and residency as long as they had a job. They cant bring dependents, or use it as a passage to nationality, but in essence it pushes those undocumented migrants into the tax paying system at very little cost, they are there already. Most take up low skilled positions that are needed to grow GDP.


"Greece’s parliament on Tuesday overwhelmingly approved new legislation that will grant tens of thousands of undocumented migrants residence and work permits amid a shortage of unskilled labor.

The law drafted by the center-right government links the right to residence with proof of employment. According to the labor ministry, it will affect some 30,000 people, many of them agricultural laborers."

[z4RRSchris]

272BHP said:

Infrastructure is not just houses - that is the easy bit.

.

You are correct, but in order to fund other public services around these new houses you need cash, councils have none so rely on s106 agreements. Without these no schools, doctors, roads etc etc.

We can then talk about other public services, which have seen massive real terms cuts in funding over the current governments term(s).

more people in the workforce, more growth, more gdp, more cash to fund things.

[Mrr T]

272BHP said:

Mrr T said:

What people? Are you one of the posters who sees some darker skinned faces and assumed they are all immigrants? Guess what many will be as British as you or I.

Does not matter how many lawyers there are if a visa type does not exist they cannot make it up.

So yes your post is rubbish.

The 1.2 million who migrated to the UK last year - those people.

So let's get this clear you believe the 1.2m who came to the UK last year all did so on visas granted because they related to or about to marry those who had been granted asylum in the UK.

[W124]

z4RRSchris said:

Greece, which being the first port of call for many migrants coming from Africa takes a huge number. They passed a law in December giving people a 3 year visa and residency as long as they had a job. They cant bring dependents, or use it as a passage to nationality, but in essence it pushes those undocumented migrants into the tax paying system at very little cost, they are there already. Most take up low skilled positions that are needed to grow GDP.


"Greece’s parliament on Tuesday overwhelmingly approved new legislation that will grant tens of thousands of undocumented migrants residence and work permits amid a shortage of unskilled labor.

The law drafted by the center-right government links the right to residence with proof of employment. According to the labor ministry, it will affect some 30,000 people, many of them agricultural laborers."

Is the solution.

These people are coming. We cannot afford to stop them. They have made it this far - not easy. We can pay for them or we can let them work and pay tax - which is what they want to do.

We don’t have money to burn on this. We don’t have time to burn on it.

We are just dicking about.

[Rufus Stone]

z4RRSchris said:

Greece, which being the first port of call for many migrants coming from Africa takes a huge number. They passed a law in December giving people a 3 year visa and residency as long as they had a job. They cant bring dependents, or use it as a passage to nationality, but in essence it pushes those undocumented migrants into the tax paying system at very little cost, they are there already. Most take up low skilled positions that are needed to grow GDP.


"Greece’s parliament on Tuesday overwhelmingly approved new legislation that will grant tens of thousands of undocumented migrants residence and work permits amid a shortage of unskilled labor.

The law drafted by the center-right government links the right to residence with proof of employment. According to the labor ministry, it will affect some 30,000 people, many of them agricultural laborers."

The very thought of that happening here would make some peoples head explode.

[272BHP]

Mrr T said:

So let's get this clear you believe the 1.2m who came to the UK last year all did so on visas granted because they related to or about to marry those who had been granted asylum in the UK.

I said 'many' not 'all'

But you already knew that didn't you?

[chrispmartha]

272BHP said:

Mrr T said:

So let's get this clear you believe the 1.2m who came to the UK last year all did so on visas granted because they related to or about to marry those who had been granted asylum in the UK.

I said 'many' not 'all'

But you already knew that didn't you?

How many is many?

[Mrr T]

chrispmartha said:

272BHP said:

Mrr T said:

So let's get this clear you believe the 1.2m who came to the UK last year all did so on visas granted because they related to or about to marry those who had been granted asylum in the UK.

I said 'many' not 'all'

But you already knew that didn't you?

How many is many?

Considering the very limited availability of family visas and bride visas for arranged marriage almost none. But the poster will not want to admit to posting rubbish.

[johnboy1975]

z4RRSchris said:

Greece, which being the first port of call for many migrants coming from Africa takes a huge number. They passed a law in December giving people a 3 year visa and residency as long as they had a job. They cant bring dependents, or use it as a passage to nationality, but in essence it pushes those undocumented migrants into the tax paying system at very little cost, they are there already. Most take up low skilled positions that are needed to grow GDP.


"Greece’s parliament on Tuesday overwhelmingly approved new legislation that will grant tens of thousands of undocumented migrants residence and work permits amid a shortage of unskilled labor.

The law drafted by the center-right government links the right to residence with proof of employment. According to the labor ministry, it will affect some 30,000 people, many of them agricultural laborers."

Why, then, would they leave Greece (safe, warm, job, house) to travel across Europe and jump in a dinghy?

I'd be worried such a policy here would be a massive pull factor. From the government PoV though, it would push up GDP and push down wage inflation. As Rufus says though it's far too toxic a policy to consider. Certainly for the Tories. Could labour make it work, make it seen to be working AND get net migration down?

More generally I've often thought we need a new town / city. Maybe even something akin to "The Line" . Make it zero carbon and car free (monorail from one end to the other)

https://youtu.be/b6GgaJWcbww?si=ICiCWeR1FKRTD5f8

Lots of jobs creating it, provides lots of housing, then add in lots of infrastructure (GPs, shops, hospitals, dentists, schools)

[z4RRSchris]

most don’t leave greece, or the first country they arrive in.

hence why there are massive numbers in camps, greece at one point had a million a year.

[rscott]

johnboy1975 said:

z4RRSchris said:

Greece, which being the first port of call for many migrants coming from Africa takes a huge number. They passed a law in December giving people a 3 year visa and residency as long as they had a job. They cant bring dependents, or use it as a passage to nationality, but in essence it pushes those undocumented migrants into the tax paying system at very little cost, they are there already. Most take up low skilled positions that are needed to grow GDP.


"Greece’s parliament on Tuesday overwhelmingly approved new legislation that will grant tens of thousands of undocumented migrants residence and work permits amid a shortage of unskilled labor.

The law drafted by the center-right government links the right to residence with proof of employment. According to the labor ministry, it will affect some 30,000 people, many of them agricultural laborers."

Why, then, would they leave Greece (safe, warm, job, house) to travel across Europe and jump in a dinghy?

I'd be worried such a policy here would be a massive pull factor. From the government PoV though, it would push up GDP and push down wage inflation. As Rufus says though it's far too toxic a policy to consider. Certainly for the Tories. Could labour make it work, make it seen to be working AND get net migration down?

More generally I've often thought we need a new town / city. Maybe even something akin to "The Line" . Make it zero carbon and car free (monorail from one end to the other)

https://youtu.be/b6GgaJWcbww?si=ICiCWeR1FKRTD5f8

Lots of jobs creating it, provides lots of housing, then add in lots of infrastructure (GPs, shops, hospitals, dentists, schools)

Not sure the Line is a good example of new developments - they've just announced it's being shortened a bit. Was going to be 170km by 2030, but the revised length is 2.4km - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-05...