Elon Musk $41B offer for Twitter

[dukeboy749r]

EddieSteadyGo said:

rscott said:

Yes, it was fixed OTA, but it was still an official NHTSA recall. And yes, it was trivial, but it's a clear sign that Tesla aren't spending enough resources on basic compliance. Not bothering to check you're meeting long standing federal rules is a pretty basic oversight.

There was another recall of 200,000 Tesla this year because the rear view camera would fail when reversing and the NHTSA are still investigating a potential steering failure issue.

Iseecars.com have done quite a bit of analysis of recalls (meaning anything with an official NHTSA recall ID, whether is was an OTA or workshop fix). Tesla had 4 of the top 5 most recalled vehicles.

TBH I think the reversing camera is another trivial example if you look at the detail.

Also, the term "recall" needs to be updated. It no longer means what it used to mean with so many OTA updates and it often gets misrepresented to create a false impression.

From my experience, I've had my Model 3 for three years. My Model Y is only a few weeks old. The Model 3 has needed tyres and wiper blades. No servicing, no maintenance, no "recalls". It just always works. Perfect reliability. Plus it costs pennies per mile on 'fuel' and does 0-60 in circa 4.5 seconds.

I have two other Model Ys on business lease for two people I employ, and they have been flawless too. I can't say the same about other cars I have owned previously.

That is impressive.

We should be able to, in an electric vehicle, iron out increasing amounts of design issues.

Simpler vehicles (less intrinsically [you’d hope] to go wrong) overall.

Yet, the correlation of world’s most valuable car maker and their (overall) middle market sales figures, are an aberration that needs correction.

The pay package offered to Elon is also at complete odds with reality.

Crazy times.

By all means give him a huge pay package but $45bn is fking ludicrous.

[rscott]

EddieSteadyGo said:

rscott said:

Yes, it was fixed OTA, but it was still an official NHTSA recall. And yes, it was trivial, but it's a clear sign that Tesla aren't spending enough resources on basic compliance. Not bothering to check you're meeting long standing federal rules is a pretty basic oversight.

There was another recall of 200,000 Tesla this year because the rear view camera would fail when reversing and the NHTSA are still investigating a potential steering failure issue.

Iseecars.com have done quite a bit of analysis of recalls (meaning anything with an official NHTSA recall ID, whether is was an OTA or workshop fix). Tesla had 4 of the top 5 most recalled vehicles.

TBH I think the reversing camera is another trivial example if you look at the detail.

Also, the term "recall" needs to be updated. It no longer means what it used to mean with so many OTA updates and it often gets misrepresented to create a false impression.

From my experience, I've had my Model 3 for three years. My Model Y is only a few weeks old. The Model 3 has needed tyres and wiper blades. No servicing, no maintenance, no "recalls". It just always works. Perfect reliability. Plus it costs pennies per mile on 'fuel' and does 0-60 in circa 4.5 seconds.

I have two other Model Ys on business lease for two people I employ, and they have been flawless too. I can't say the same about other cars I have owned previously.

Maybe change recall for "rectify safety issue" ?

[EddieSteadyGo]

rscott said:

Maybe change recall for "rectify safety issue" ?

That might be better than using the word 'recall'.

If we go back a step, you have concluded Tesla cars have lots of basic design issues and they don't spend enough on basic compliance.

I think the number of actual design issues are relatively few, and I believe they occur no more frequently than other manufacturers.

They do get some NHTSA 'recalls' but they mainly relate to minor software bugs. Most legacy manufacturers still can't do OTA updates and even those manufactures which can, usually put little effort into updating their cars on a regular basis.

Tesla on the other hand is always updating its software versions. But regular updates can mean regular 'bugs', which is what NHTSA report (like the font sizes being changed incorrectly or the reversing camera not always switching on as examples you highlighted).

However, from my personal experience, driving the car everyday, the vast majority of updates I have seen make the car better. I've seen a couple of minor bugs over the three years, but they have always been fixed within a week or so.

There is of course a balance to strike between software testing and speed of updates. You could argue they should put more effort into testing each release, which would slow down their rate of updates, but I think they have the balance about right, regardless of whether that looks bad in terms of NHTSA 'recalls'.

[soupdragon1]

LivLL said:

Recall is the correct term, anyway isn't this a Twitter thread?

Yes, although its called X now, which is still baffling me today.

Certain things just roll off the tongue naturally, like Hoover, Coke, Cheerios, Facebook, TicTok, Twitter. There is a certain familiarity with famous names.

Throwing away the Twitter name and replacing it with a letter still confuses me in its logic.

[Byker28i]

dukeboy749r said:

EddieSteadyGo said:

rscott said:

Yes, it was fixed OTA, but it was still an official NHTSA recall. And yes, it was trivial, but it's a clear sign that Tesla aren't spending enough resources on basic compliance. Not bothering to check you're meeting long standing federal rules is a pretty basic oversight.

There was another recall of 200,000 Tesla this year because the rear view camera would fail when reversing and the NHTSA are still investigating a potential steering failure issue.

Iseecars.com have done quite a bit of analysis of recalls (meaning anything with an official NHTSA recall ID, whether is was an OTA or workshop fix). Tesla had 4 of the top 5 most recalled vehicles.

TBH I think the reversing camera is another trivial example if you look at the detail.

Also, the term "recall" needs to be updated. It no longer means what it used to mean with so many OTA updates and it often gets misrepresented to create a false impression.

From my experience, I've had my Model 3 for three years. My Model Y is only a few weeks old. The Model 3 has needed tyres and wiper blades. No servicing, no maintenance, no "recalls". It just always works. Perfect reliability. Plus it costs pennies per mile on 'fuel' and does 0-60 in circa 4.5 seconds.

I have two other Model Ys on business lease for two people I employ, and they have been flawless too. I can't say the same about other cars I have owned previously.

That is impressive.

We should be able to, in an electric vehicle, iron out increasing amounts of design issues.

Simpler vehicles (less intrinsically [you’d hope] to go wrong) overall.

Yet, the correlation of world’s most valuable car maker and their (overall) middle market sales figures, are an aberration that needs correction.

The pay package offered to Elon is also at complete odds with reality.

Crazy times.

By all means give him a huge pay package but $45bn is fking ludicrous.

I have a colleague with a model 3. It's gone back to the dealer several times for faults, including the door locks that refuse to open the doors, software 'updates' to correct issues, build quality issues, stuff coming loose etc. He also paid for the self drive he hasn't got yet.

He did have a Y as a loan car, was showing off the party mode of it opening the doors and demoing, and it jammed with the doors fully opened

No ones disputing the technology but they are a little dated now? Plus of course the Musk joke S, 3, X and Y models...

Edited by Byker28i on Monday 22 April 12:43

[EddieSteadyGo]

Byker28i said:

I have a colleague with a model 3. It's gone back to the dealer several times for faults, including the door locks that refuse to open the doors, software 'updates' to correct issues, build quality issues, stuff coming loose etc. He also paid for the self drive he hasn't got yet.

He did have a Y as a loan car, was showing off the party mode of it opening the doors and demoing, and it jammed with the doors fully opened

No ones disputing the technology but they are a little dated now? Plus of course the Musk joke S, 3, X and Y models...

Didn't happen

For one thing, if you get a fault (which is rare) and you book a service appointment (for the type of problems you listed), they send a service vehicle to you rather than it going 'to the dealer'.

Secondly, the Model Y doesn't have electric doors. It only has an electric rear tail-gate. So what you described is not possible.

[WestyCarl]

EddieSteadyGo said:

Byker28i said:

I have a colleague with a model 3. It's gone back to the dealer several times for faults, including the door locks that refuse to open the doors, software 'updates' to correct issues, build quality issues, stuff coming loose etc. He also paid for the self drive he hasn't got yet.

He did have a Y as a loan car, was showing off the party mode of it opening the doors and demoing, and it jammed with the doors fully opened

No ones disputing the technology but they are a little dated now? Plus of course the Musk joke S, 3, X and Y models...

Didn't happen

For one thing, if you get a fault (which is rare) and you book a service appointment (for the type of problems you listed), they send a service vehicle to you rather than it going 'to the dealer'.

Secondly, the Model Y doesn't have electric doors. It only has an electric rear tail-gate. So what you described is not possible.

Plus the software updates are all over the air and get pushed to the vehicle as in your phone.

[rscott]

Very odd. If the problem with the loose pedal was caused by an unapproved lubricant, why are they fixing it with a rivet?

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-cybertruck-acceler...

[cirian75]

rscott said:

Very odd. If the problem with the loose pedal was caused by an unapproved lubricant, why are they fixing it with a rivet?

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-cybertruck-acceler...

shushhh, don't be asking questions that suggest you might have an IQ above that of cheese on toast.

[p1stonhead]

Ignoring the whole ‘we’re such losers we’re here at 10pm on a Saturday’ but also, fk established ergonomics right?

My back would be broken after 2 hours in one of those chairs hunched over a laptop.

Just why?! I thought multi screen was fairly established for productivity gains? I basically work at 20% speed when only on my laptop.

[Byker28i]

EddieSteadyGo said:

Byker28i said:

I have a colleague with a model 3. It's gone back to the dealer several times for faults, including the door locks that refuse to open the doors, software 'updates' to correct issues, build quality issues, stuff coming loose etc. He also paid for the self drive he hasn't got yet.

He did have a Y as a loan car, was showing off the party mode of it opening the doors and demoing, and it jammed with the doors fully opened

No ones disputing the technology but they are a little dated now? Plus of course the Musk joke S, 3, X and Y models...

Didn't happen

For one thing, if you get a fault (which is rare) and you book a service appointment (for the type of problems you listed), they send a service vehicle to you rather than it going 'to the dealer'.

Secondly, the Model Y doesn't have electric doors. It only has an electric rear tail-gate. So what you described is not possible.

Apologies got the model wrong it was the X with the opening Gull wing doors, but then you'd know that, because thats the one with the demo That was fixed remotely which we also thought clever.

Also - it went back to the dealer several times, in Reading, because the door locks failed, because not all people work on a site thats lets say accessible.
He had one if the first Model 3's, door locks was the only 'mechanical' fault less lose trim, bad quality build.

So you can claim didn't happen but I know it did.

Edited by Byker28i on Monday 22 April 15:27

[Byker28i]

WestyCarl said:

EddieSteadyGo said:

Byker28i said:

I have a colleague with a model 3. It's gone back to the dealer several times for faults, including the door locks that refuse to open the doors, software 'updates' to correct issues, build quality issues, stuff coming loose etc. He also paid for the self drive he hasn't got yet.

He did have a Y as a loan car, was showing off the party mode of it opening the doors and demoing, and it jammed with the doors fully opened

No ones disputing the technology but they are a little dated now? Plus of course the Musk joke S, 3, X and Y models...

Didn't happen

For one thing, if you get a fault (which is rare) and you book a service appointment (for the type of problems you listed), they send a service vehicle to you rather than it going 'to the dealer'.

Secondly, the Model Y doesn't have electric doors. It only has an electric rear tail-gate. So what you described is not possible.

Plus the software updates are all over the air and get pushed to the vehicle as in your phone.

He has one of the first. It got a lot of updates, including one when in getting a lock changed that failed. Something about him having one of the first.

He's still got it, still likes it, but lets not say they are perfect.


Edit: I asked. He had a broken door lock it went to the dealer a few times, where it wouldn't open sometimes, but of course worked fine when in until one time it didn't, in the end they replaced it. That was when he had the replacement loan car.

He also had an issue with it not auto locking, it would lock then open again. One time fixed with a software update that came eventually because it was detecting a door open that wasn't, another time he had a sensor changed that detected someone was sat on the seat.

Edited by Byker28i on Monday 22 April 15:36

[EddieSteadyGo]

Byker28i said:

...
So you can claim didn't happen but I know it did.
...

Fair enough. TBH I was slightly teasing you, as I did realise you probably meant the Model X rather than Model Y

[Byker28i]

EddieSteadyGo said:

Byker28i said:

...
So you can claim didn't happen but I know it did.
...

Fair enough. TBH I was slightly teasing you, as I did realise you probably meant the Model X rather than Model Y

To be fair the demo mode was fun, flapping it's doors etc

[dukeboy749r]

p1stonhead said:

Ignoring the whole ‘we’re such losers we’re here at 10pm on a Saturday’ but also, fk established ergonomics right?

My back would be broken after 2 hours in one of those chairs hunched over a laptop.

Just why?! I thought multi screen was fairly established for productivity gains? I basically work at 20% speed when only on my laptop.

For someone (Musk) keen on supporting a more tightly controlled border (seemingly) that seems like an awful lot of non-white US folks working on the software.

Expecting lots of supporters to come back at me.

[p1stonhead]

dukeboy749r said:

p1stonhead said:

Ignoring the whole ‘we’re such losers we’re here at 10pm on a Saturday’ but also, fk established ergonomics right?

My back would be broken after 2 hours in one of those chairs hunched over a laptop.

Just why?! I thought multi screen was fairly established for productivity gains? I basically work at 20% speed when only on my laptop.

For someone (Musk) keen on supporting a more tightly controlled border (seemingly) that seems like an awful lot of non-white US folks working on the software.

Expecting lots of supporters to come back at me.

Not sure how true this is but I’ve read foreign ‘sponsored’ employees might get deported if they don’t have a job, so will work any hours they have to so as to avoid that happening if they leave and can’t get another. Madness.

[dukeboy749r]

p1stonhead said:

dukeboy749r said:

p1stonhead said:

Ignoring the whole ‘we’re such losers we’re here at 10pm on a Saturday’ but also, fk established ergonomics right?

My back would be broken after 2 hours in one of those chairs hunched over a laptop.

Just why?! I thought multi screen was fairly established for productivity gains? I basically work at 20% speed when only on my laptop.

For someone (Musk) keen on supporting a more tightly controlled border (seemingly) that seems like an awful lot of non-white US folks working on the software.

Expecting lots of supporters to come back at me.

Not sure how true this is but I’ve read foreign ‘sponsored’ employees might get deported if they don’t have a job, so will work any hours they have to so as to avoid that happening if they leave and can’t get another. Madness.

Indeed. Elon is happy to have workers working stupid hours and then not pay them when morally obliged when he sacks them.

In other Musk-related news, I see Tesla shares are down again today.

40% plus off their high from a year ago!

[skwdenyer]

off_again said:

EddieSteadyGo said:

I did see the video. I still can't see what the fuss is about. Some guy has an accident in his car and says it wasn't his fault. He claims the accelerator pressed down on its own and the brake didn't work. Examples of this previously have been shown to be user error, but who knows at this stage. Either way, the guy with the damaged car says after the accident "im in love with the truck still even with this problem, im down for them to give me a new truck." They will have the video of the accident and the telemetry so they should be able to figure what happened.

Toyota got screwed over something similar previously. Ok, so that situation was handled badly, hushed up and didnt address all of the issues, but it still ended up badly for Toyota. Some people still believe that their Prius cars have sudden unintended acceleration, even if they changed the floor mats! I am guessing someone from legal at Tesla got involved and decided to get ahead of the issue before it becomes a bigger one - given that the Cybertruck is all over the news and the internet, it makes sense to deal with this now while the number of vehicles is very manageable. But the final outcome, if not dealt with could be a lot worse.

EddieSteadyGo said:

The other video shows the pedal trim coming lose, but that guy didn't have an accident and he says the brake did work.

Even assuming the worst, and it is a design fault, I doubt it will take long to fix. I don't believe they have built many trucks yet either, so even if there is a recall, the current fleet size is small.

With the Prius it was a badly fitting floor mat that had to be dislodged to cause that issue - so I guess anything has a potential here? I would suggest that both of these are not significant issues and not really fundamental issues with the vehicle (design fault or not). But hey, its the land of the court case, so probably a good idea to get ahead of it.

EddieSteadyGo said:

In terms of demand, if cars are selling at auction for well over double their original price, it suggests people still want them.

Seen a few on the roads around California and I have to say that their drivers need to figure out how to drive and park them! Its not as if its some sort of super huge thing.... anyway, I digress - yes, they are in demand but the pricing seems to be all over the place. Yes, a couple were sold for $240k and $262k respectively, but there were also unsold ones at auction too. A quick check of Autotrader for CA and I can see a bunch for sale, but almost all with a "Reduced Price" indicator! Some chancers are trying for $180k+, but there are a bunch for sale (with the same mileage or less) for $140k.

I think its safe to say that their prices are 'variable' and anyone taking a jump now needs to understand that they may be paying well over the going price just to get one, and that they are unlikely to get close to what they paid for it come trade in. But to be fair, the same could be said for the G-wagen 12 months ago - those things were just crazy and now are much more 'reasonable'....if you could ever call a G-wagen reasonable that is.

Just for completeness, Toyota had several throttle recalls. Only 1 related to floor mats; in other cases throttles simply stuck down on their own. IIRC 100 deaths were attributed to that in the US alone. It was a genuinely big deal, but few are decrying Toyotas as intrinsically flawed because of it.

Likewise GM had an ignition lock issue that was also attributed to 100 deaths.

[h0b0]

p1stonhead said:

dukeboy749r said:

p1stonhead said:

Ignoring the whole ‘we’re such losers we’re here at 10pm on a Saturday’ but also, fk established ergonomics right?

My back would be broken after 2 hours in one of those chairs hunched over a laptop.

Just why?! I thought multi screen was fairly established for productivity gains? I basically work at 20% speed when only on my laptop.

For someone (Musk) keen on supporting a more tightly controlled border (seemingly) that seems like an awful lot of non-white US folks working on the software.

Expecting lots of supporters to come back at me.

Not sure how true this is but I’ve read foreign ‘sponsored’ employees might get deported if they don’t have a job, so will work any hours they have to so as to avoid that happening if they leave and can’t get another. Madness.

That is not their normal office environment. They have set that space up for some type of event.

As a former FAANG (Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Google) employee I used to mange the org that hosted that type of event. I used to tell people that attended to work the hours and pace that suited them. They were welcome to use the space provided at any hours but not expected to. Whatever worked for them.

We had two goals, 1) get more accomplished in a few days that would normally be done in months, 2) let people have fun with technology by removing BS and providing every possible resource they need. As a developer, you get used to being throttled by the process. My org removed the barriers. This meant people were gaining momentum so fast they didn’t want to stop. It was self driven but could cause long hours over the week event. That wasn’t our intention. We had to make sure people were stepping away and taking breaks.

Now immigration…

The only time I have caught anyone taking advantage of a persons temporary immigration status in my organization was by another immigrant. That was stopped immediately.

I have had to sit down with employees on visas and asked them to stop work immediately. This was the final step in failed visa renewals. We did everything we could to maintain their employment in the US. If they had to return, I had 100% success in proving a position in their home country.

I don’t think immigration is used as a threat. I think the average none tech person would be blown away by how reliant top tier tech is on immigrants. I’m an immigrant! In my position in FAANG I had no US “born” peers. My manager, her manager, his manager, her manager were all Indian. It was regularly joked that I was their diversity hire as the only white person. My wife works in a top tier bank in tech. Her building has 10000 people in it. Its conservatively estimated that 70% were born in India. None are support roles. This is tech leaders and drivers.

[p1stonhead]

h0b0 said:

p1stonhead said:

dukeboy749r said:

p1stonhead said:

Ignoring the whole ‘we’re such losers we’re here at 10pm on a Saturday’ but also, fk established ergonomics right?

My back would be broken after 2 hours in one of those chairs hunched over a laptop.

Just why?! I thought multi screen was fairly established for productivity gains? I basically work at 20% speed when only on my laptop.

For someone (Musk) keen on supporting a more tightly controlled border (seemingly) that seems like an awful lot of non-white US folks working on the software.

Expecting lots of supporters to come back at me.

Not sure how true this is but I’ve read foreign ‘sponsored’ employees might get deported if they don’t have a job, so will work any hours they have to so as to avoid that happening if they leave and can’t get another. Madness.

That is not their normal office environment. They have set that space up for some type of event.

As a former FAANG (Facebook, Amazon, Apple, Netflix, Google) employee I used to mange the org that hosted that type of event. I used to tell people that attended to work the hours and pace that suited them. They were welcome to use the space provided at any hours but not expected to. Whatever worked for them.

We had two goals, 1) get more accomplished in a few days that would normally be done in months, 2) let people have fun with technology by removing BS and providing every possible resource they need. As a developer, you get used to being throttled by the process. My org removed the barriers. This meant people were gaining momentum so fast they didn’t want to stop. It was self driven but could cause long hours over the week event. That wasn’t our intention. We had to make sure people were stepping away and taking breaks.

Now immigration…

The only time I have caught anyone taking advantage of a persons temporary immigration status in my organization was by another immigrant. That was stopped immediately.

I have had to sit down with employees on visas and asked them to stop work immediately. This was the final step in failed visa renewals. We did everything we could to maintain their employment in the US. If they had to return, I had 100% success in proving a position in their home country.

I don’t think immigration is used as a threat. I think the average none tech person would be blown away by how reliant top tier tech is on immigrants. I’m an immigrant! In my position in FAANG I had no US “born” peers. My manager, her manager, his manager, her manager were all Indian. It was regularly joked that I was their diversity hire as the only white person. My wife works in a top tier bank in tech. Her building has 10000 people in it. Its conservatively estimated that 70% were born in India. None are support roles. This is tech leaders and drivers.

Thanks for the clarification. Nice to hear the visa thing isn’t true.