Elon Musk $41B offer for Twitter

[Byker28i]

WestyCarl said:

Byker28i said:

Plus everyone has caught up and in some case surpassed the superchargers now. There's other fast charge points around now from other companies.

For charging speed maybe, but for seemless interaction with the cars (Tesla's) nothing is close.

But the conversation was about Tesla being forced to open superchargers to others and the initial tesla advantage of those, which is now reducing. Market share of Tesla compared to other brands?
It used to be a USP but is it now?

The markets changed, so many other more attractive vehicles available

Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 1st May 13:42

[h0b0]

shakotan said:

h0b0 said:

shakotan said:

Regardless of how good you think his tech may be...

Regardless of what advances you may or may not think he had achieved...

Regardless of whether you believe his claims regarding new products and timelines to market...

I don't know how you can support the man who operates like this.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/my-boss-didnt-ev...

The man who fires people overnight by e-mail to 'save' his company and at the same time demand a $45 BILLION pay out.

How can ANYONE think he is someone to be respected and admired?

In the US, companies planning redundancies have to provide 60 days advance notice to the impacted state. These notices are then publish publicly. It is why we had some very awkward announcements from other CEOs. Elon, however is different. He notified the state of Texas 4 days after he made people redundant. Another clear sign he thinks he is above the rules that are set out to protect people.

This is why I turned from being an Elon fan in the early days to thinking he is a prick. I am sure I could be richer if I was completely ok with treating people like dirt.

Even if he gave the required 60 days, does it make it any better?

Not in my eyes?

Even if the average salary of those 14,000 Tesla employees was $100,000P/A, he's saving the company $1.4billion a year but at the same time wanting to take 30 times that out of the company in one chunk to give himself money he doesn't even need.

Well, clearly it would be better if he had served the correct notice. Not much but that is why the system is in place. It is not for the individual, it is for the city/state to be prepared to support 2000+ extra unemployed. The vast majority of people do not know about WARN notices. It is about other companies who may be interested in hiring the newly unemployed minimising the gap in employment and the burden.

The fact Elon cut 10% before he announced earnings was to artificially support the stock price. He did not give a crap about who they are and what they did. He purposely made this announcement after earnings because it would have made the stock tank. For many investors, giving up on autopilot is giving up on Tesla.

[2xChevrons]

shakotan said:

I don't know how you can support the man who operates like this.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/my-boss-didnt-ev...

The man who fires people overnight by e-mail to 'save' his company and at the same time demand a $45 BILLION pay out.

How can ANYONE think he is someone to be respected and admired?

There are people out there who dream of wielding this much power over underlings with zero accountability. Lording over their little fiefdoms, justified by the fact that The Company is so important. They usually become the worst sort of tyrannical small business owners who are a nightmare to work for and then complain about how no one wants to do a decent day's work anymore.

Anyway, Musk is having delusional fantasies about inventing the Internet today:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/17853579136340...

"I personally wrote the first national maps, directions, yellow pages & white pages on the Internet in the summer of 1995 in C with a little C++.

Didn’t use a “web server” to save CPU cycles (just read port 8080 directly). Couldn’t afford a Cisco T1 router, so wrote an emulator based on a white paper."

I'm no compsci expert but this is horsest, right? C with a bit of C++ in 1995? The first online 'national maps'? Before Thomas Guide? Serving stuff to the Web without a web server? What does a server have to do with CPU cycles? Writing a server in software? And while somehow using port 8080?

This seems to be half stuff that's impossible and half complete gibberish.

[98elise]

Byker28i said:

98elise said:

Byker28i said:

The Moose said:

h0b0 said:

I am very sure the fact the US forced Elon to open up the supercharger network to all is linked to Elon dropping the team.

The supercharger network was a big differentiator for Tesla. At one time it looked like Elon was building Tesla so he could own/control charging in the US. With every Tom, Dick, and Ford being able to use them they stopped having value.

I know it is not that simple because Tesla are not playing entirely nice with opening up their network but I think Elon has a simple view and cut the workforce.

I assumed that he was trying to control the charging network within the US turning the supercharger network into a bigger revenue stream for Tesla.

Plus everyone has caught up and in some case surpassed the superchargers now. There's other fast charge points around now from other companies.

Plus testla china sales are now threated by the many chinese offerings which are better and cheaper, as it's claimed theyve reversed engineed the motors and batteries

Why would anyone need to reverse engineer someone else's electric motor? They are fundamentally simple and efficient. You would simply buy or build a motor that suits your needs.

Not quite. the motors/gearboxes were powerful, compact, plus the control units. There's much more to an EV than just a motor. Much easier to copy an existing design

I know how they work, I am (or was) an Engineer

The motors are just copper wound like any other motor They can't be significantly more efficient because electric motors are all very efficient.

The gearbox is just metal gears like any other gearbox. In fact it's just a differential rather than a full gearbox. It's not special, or particularly small.

I haven't looked at the tesla motor controller design in any detail, but motor controllers are not complex or difficult to engineer.

There would be more benefit in reverse engineering stuff like the heat pump octovalve which is genuinely innovative (but even then not that complex).

[Byker28i]

98elise said:

Byker28i said:

98elise said:

Byker28i said:

The Moose said:

h0b0 said:

I am very sure the fact the US forced Elon to open up the supercharger network to all is linked to Elon dropping the team.

The supercharger network was a big differentiator for Tesla. At one time it looked like Elon was building Tesla so he could own/control charging in the US. With every Tom, Dick, and Ford being able to use them they stopped having value.

I know it is not that simple because Tesla are not playing entirely nice with opening up their network but I think Elon has a simple view and cut the workforce.

I assumed that he was trying to control the charging network within the US turning the supercharger network into a bigger revenue stream for Tesla.

Plus everyone has caught up and in some case surpassed the superchargers now. There's other fast charge points around now from other companies.

Plus testla china sales are now threated by the many chinese offerings which are better and cheaper, as it's claimed theyve reversed engineed the motors and batteries

Why would anyone need to reverse engineer someone else's electric motor? They are fundamentally simple and efficient. You would simply buy or build a motor that suits your needs.

Not quite. the motors/gearboxes were powerful, compact, plus the control units. There's much more to an EV than just a motor. Much easier to copy an existing design

I know how they work, I am (or was) an Engineer

The motors are just copper wound like any other motor They can't be significantly more efficient because electric motors are all very efficient.

The gearbox is just metal gears like any other gearbox. In fact it's just a differential rather than a full gearbox. It's not special, or particularly small.

I haven't looked at the tesla motor controller design in any detail, but motor controllers are not complex or difficult to engineer.

There would be more benefit in reverse engineering stuff like the heat pump octovalve which is genuinely innovative (but even then not that complex).

Well, it was done by the chinese... Perhaps because Tesla were claiming their technology was more advanced than others, lubrication, cooling, gear design giving 93% efficiency, allowing them a greater range etc

Interesting, were you an EV enginner or just generic electic motor experience?
Brushed, brushless, induction, DC, 3 phase...

Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 1st May 14:48

[WestyCarl]

Byker28i said:

WestyCarl said:

Byker28i said:

Plus everyone has caught up and in some case surpassed the superchargers now. There's other fast charge points around now from other companies.

For charging speed maybe, but for seemless interaction with the cars (Tesla's) nothing is close.

But the conversation was about Tesla being forced to open superchargers to others and the initial tesla advantage of those, which is now reducing. Market share of Tesla compared to other brands?
It used to be a USP but is it now?

The markets changed, so many other more attractive vehicles available

Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 1st May 13:42

The Tesla S/C network still works much more seamlessly with their own vehicles than others (I believe), auto Sat Nav routing, plug and play, free stall notification, etc

The advantage is redcuing for sure, but it's still a selling point for some who are hesitant to swtich to EV's

[98elise]

Byker28i said:

98elise said:

Byker28i said:

98elise said:

Byker28i said:

The Moose said:

h0b0 said:

I am very sure the fact the US forced Elon to open up the supercharger network to all is linked to Elon dropping the team.

The supercharger network was a big differentiator for Tesla. At one time it looked like Elon was building Tesla so he could own/control charging in the US. With every Tom, Dick, and Ford being able to use them they stopped having value.

I know it is not that simple because Tesla are not playing entirely nice with opening up their network but I think Elon has a simple view and cut the workforce.

I assumed that he was trying to control the charging network within the US turning the supercharger network into a bigger revenue stream for Tesla.

Plus everyone has caught up and in some case surpassed the superchargers now. There's other fast charge points around now from other companies.

Plus testla china sales are now threated by the many chinese offerings which are better and cheaper, as it's claimed theyve reversed engineed the motors and batteries

Why would anyone need to reverse engineer someone else's electric motor? They are fundamentally simple and efficient. You would simply buy or build a motor that suits your needs.

Not quite. the motors/gearboxes were powerful, compact, plus the control units. There's much more to an EV than just a motor. Much easier to copy an existing design

I know how they work, I am (or was) an Engineer

The motors are just copper wound like any other motor They can't be significantly more efficient because electric motors are all very efficient.

The gearbox is just metal gears like any other gearbox. In fact it's just a differential rather than a full gearbox. It's not special, or particularly small.

I haven't looked at the tesla motor controller design in any detail, but motor controllers are not complex or difficult to engineer.

There would be more benefit in reverse engineering stuff like the heat pump octovalve which is genuinely innovative (but even then not that complex).

Well, it was done by the chinese... Perhaps because Tesla were claiming their technology was more advanced than others, lubrication, cooling, gear design giving 93% efficiency, allowing them a greater range etc

Interesting, were you an EV enginner or just generic electic motor experience?
Brushed, brushless, induction, DC, 3 phase...

Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 1st May 14:48

Generic, but all of the attributes you've listed (plus controls).

Motors are very simple as are differentials (the "gearbox"). 93% isn't remarkable, especially when people complain about the real range!

As I said before it's stuff like the octovalve that's innovative, along with other clever ancillaries/controllers.

There are teardowns available that go into detail.

Edited to add....

From a bit of googling it seems they've moved away from the original 3 phase induction motors (basic but robust) to a permanent magnet/reluctance motor, which is the same size but slightly more efficient and a bit lighter. Not revolutionary, but a bit more sophisticated and clever.

In that case the chinese may well want to reverse engineer.

Edited by 98elise on Wednesday 1st May 17:15

[off_again]

h0b0 said:

shakotan said:

Regardless of how good you think his tech may be...

Regardless of what advances you may or may not think he had achieved...

Regardless of whether you believe his claims regarding new products and timelines to market...

I don't know how you can support the man who operates like this.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/my-boss-didnt-ev...

The man who fires people overnight by e-mail to 'save' his company and at the same time demand a $45 BILLION pay out.

How can ANYONE think he is someone to be respected and admired?

In the US, companies planning redundancies have to provide 60 days advance notice to the impacted state. These notices are then publish publicly. It is why we had some very awkward announcements from other CEOs. Elon, however is different. He notified the state of Texas 4 days after he made people redundant. Another clear sign he thinks he is above the rules that are set out to protect people.

This is why I turned from being an Elon fan in the early days to thinking he is a prick. I am sure I could be richer if I was completely ok with treating people like dirt.

California has the WARN act for this exact reason. Thankfully the data is public:

https://edd.ca.gov/en/jobs_and_training/Layoff_Ser...

Here is the data for Tesla:



The biggest number impacted is the Freemont factory, but take a look at the other locations! Lathrop is the battery location, so manufacturing, but the locations in Palo Alto are all development & engineering locations (as well as HQ). THe other Freemont locations are largely the old Sunrun locations, so I am guessing its the solar panel stuff.

I dont run a manufacturing business, but I am pretty sure that laying off 500 people across your development locations doesnt look good and it will have an impact on what you are doing in the short term. I could be proven to be totally wrong and they have a bunch of new cars released at the end of the year, but its not looking positive at this point.

I do find it funny to see the Tesla-stans doing their best cognitive dissonance act to justify what Musk did. Its all about profit and all he is doing is just 'cutting the bloat' from the organization. Or that all of these people are doing nothing anyway, so it doesnt matter. The list goes on. I completely agree with you both though - these are people and Musk is just throwing them out on a whim. This isnt survival of the fittest, this is duck and hope you arent caught in the crossfire! There is a lot of experience, knowledge and talent that just got fired that Tesla will struggle to replace. I have little doubt that many of these people will find a job pretty quickly (fear for the manufacturing teams though) and no doubt will be going to the likes of Lucid, Rivian and others - who will also get a kick-start in their business as a result.

Musk is a dick. Always has been and no doubt will always remain one. He is disconnected from reality and is so far up his own arse that he can see daylight. Let us not forget that Musk said this - "At this point, I think I know more about manufacturing than anyone currently alive on earth".

https://twitter.com/cb_doge/status/155525486479128...

No you dont. You are an arse.

[Byker28i]

98elise said:

Generic, but all of the attributes you've listed (plus controls).

Motors are very simple as are differentials (the "gearbox"). 93% isn't remarkable, especially when people complain about the real range!

As I said before it's stuff like the octovalve that's innovative, along with other clever ancillaries/controllers.

There are teardowns available that go into detail.

Edited to add....

From a bit of googling it seems they've moved away from the original 3 phase induction motors (basic but robust) to a permanent magnet/reluctance motor, which is the same size but slightly more efficient and a bit lighter. Not revolutionary, but a bit more sophisticated and clever.

In that case the chinese may well want to reverse engineer.

Edited by 98elise on Wednesday 1st May 17:15

I was chatting to someone in the EV convesion field, turning a Cerbera into a sprint car with rapic charge. He was going to use a testla motor because he could tune it I think he said by adjusting changing the magnets and doing something with some software, and he was surprised to find the same in the chinese motors, clone almost. Plus the battery packs copied the tesla cooling

[Byker28i]

Claims Musk held a dinner party with David Sacks in Los Angeles earlier this month to talk politics and how to help trump, raise money etc

Guests included Rupert Murdoch, Steven Mnuchin, Peter Thiel, Travis Kalanick and Michael Milken. at which Musk pushed his promotion of a migrant crisis

https://puck.news/elon-musk-david-sacks-host-anti-...

[off_again]

Byker28i said:

Claims Musk held a dinner party with David Sacks in Los Angeles earlier this month to talk politics and how to help trump, raise money etc

Guests included Rupert Murdoch, Steven Mnuchin, Peter Thiel, Travis Kalanick and Michael Milken. at which Musk pushed his promotion of a migrant crisis

https://puck.news/elon-musk-david-sacks-host-anti-...

Oh, that David Sacks..... The anti-Ukraine, pro-Putin muppet who has been a consistent ahole in the venture capital business.... Mmmm, meeting of the minds there with Musk, I am sure they will get on like a house on fire since they share the same weird & conspiratorial views on the world.

Rich people doing rich people things - which usually involves political manipulation for their own personal gains. And dont me started on Thiel!

[off_again]

2xChevrons said:

shakotan said:

I don't know how you can support the man who operates like this.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/my-boss-didnt-ev...

The man who fires people overnight by e-mail to 'save' his company and at the same time demand a $45 BILLION pay out.

How can ANYONE think he is someone to be respected and admired?

There are people out there who dream of wielding this much power over underlings with zero accountability. Lording over their little fiefdoms, justified by the fact that The Company is so important. They usually become the worst sort of tyrannical small business owners who are a nightmare to work for and then complain about how no one wants to do a decent day's work anymore.

Anyway, Musk is having delusional fantasies about inventing the Internet today:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/17853579136340...

"I personally wrote the first national maps, directions, yellow pages & white pages on the Internet in the summer of 1995 in C with a little C++.

Didn’t use a “web server” to save CPU cycles (just read port 8080 directly). Couldn’t afford a Cisco T1 router, so wrote an emulator based on a white paper."

I'm no compsci expert but this is horsest, right? C with a bit of C++ in 1995? The first online 'national maps'? Before Thomas Guide? Serving stuff to the Web without a web server? What does a server have to do with CPU cycles? Writing a server in software? And while somehow using port 8080?

This seems to be half stuff that's impossible and half complete gibberish.

Yeah, its utter horseste. He doesnt know what he is talking about and its the usual word salad stuff that he throws out to try and convince his fans that he is some sort of techno-god.

First national maps, directions and so on? Really? Because if you had done that "in the summer of 1995" then you moron, you missed a massive opportunity. Back in 1995, GIS applications were only just starting to be useful. Mapquest was real, but also very difficult to use as much of the mapping data had yet to be centralized. And I am pretty sure at the time, national mapping data was not available, or if it was, it was massively expensive to obtain.

But he missed a huge opportunity there - the ability to provide a joined together application to incorporate everything together would have beaten Google to this by 10 YEARS!!!! Yeah, utter horsest and he's just trying to convince the world he's clever - but in reality its just a typical ploy by him to try and distract that he has screwed Tesla by doing another round of layoffs in key business areas.

As for the Cisco T1 router thing - built it from a white paper? Really? Or did he mean from the open standards that Cisco liked to produce (and still do)? Did he create the behavior of the router and its policies into a simulator for sts and giggles? Because again, missed business opportunity there - Cisco had, and still does to a certain extent, control of the routing market and if he was able to replicate the functionality that easily, he could have easily launched a business on the back of that and beaten a whole bunch of start-ups at the time. But hey, he's the techno-god right?

[dukeboy749r]

off_again said:

Byker28i said:

Claims Musk held a dinner party with David Sacks in Los Angeles earlier this month to talk politics and how to help trump, raise money etc

Guests included Rupert Murdoch, Steven Mnuchin, Peter Thiel, Travis Kalanick and Michael Milken. at which Musk pushed his promotion of a migrant crisis

https://puck.news/elon-musk-david-sacks-host-anti-...

Oh, that David Sacks..... The anti-Ukraine, pro-Putin muppet who has been a consistent ahole in the venture capital business.... Mmmm, meeting of the minds there with Musk, I am sure they will get on like a house on fire since they share the same weird & conspiratorial views on the world.

Rich people doing rich people things - which usually involves political manipulation for their own personal gains. And dont me started on Thiel!

If there is a ‘Deep State’ and this meeting was for these purported reasons, then very rich people looking to subvert by paying for stories to be published (etc), to suit their aims, rather than the majority of people, would surely count?

They care not for Trump, other than he’s ‘manipulable’ enough to be ‘their puppet’.

[5 In a Row]

With all these layoffs are Tesla now transitioning (or going back to) to being a tech company rather than a car manufacturer?

I remember a year or 3 ago some were saying that Teslas massive value was based on the ability to licence its know-how to other firms rather than in production.
How else could you explain the fact it had/has a value greater than that of, say, Toyota?

Whatever happens next I hope it doesn't work out for Musk personally.
Maybe he'll turn Tesla into the automotive equivalent of ttter.

[p1stonhead]

Is he completely off his head on drugs these days? How can he not see what he is doing to the reputation of himself and Tesla?

How can a company that big not have a competent management team. They have a god king who just waves his sword.

[LivLL]

No correlation between Musk being summoned to China and his recent bizarre behavior where Tesla is concerned?

[dukeboy749r]

Hold those thoughts and some posters will be along, momentarily, to suggest you are both wrong and then lay out all of the 4d reasons why.

[Al Gorithum]

off_again said:

https://twitter.com/cb_doge/status/155525486479128...

No you dont. You are an arse.

Looks to me like his "microdosing" has gone a bit awry...

[durbster]

2xChevrons said:

There are people out there who dream of wielding this much power over underlings with zero accountability. Lording over their little fiefdoms, justified by the fact that The Company is so important. They usually become the worst sort of tyrannical small business owners who are a nightmare to work for and then complain about how no one wants to do a decent day's work anymore.

Anyway, Musk is having delusional fantasies about inventing the Internet today:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/17853579136340...

"I personally wrote the first national maps, directions, yellow pages & white pages on the Internet in the summer of 1995 in C with a little C++.

Didn’t use a “web server” to save CPU cycles (just read port 8080 directly). Couldn’t afford a Cisco T1 router, so wrote an emulator based on a white paper."

I'm no compsci expert but this is horsest, right? C with a bit of C++ in 1995? The first online 'national maps'? Before Thomas Guide? Serving stuff to the Web without a web server? What does a server have to do with CPU cycles? Writing a server in software? And while somehow using port 8080?

This seems to be half stuff that's impossible and half complete gibberish.

I logged into Twitter for the first time in many months because I thought the replies to this would be entertaining. That's exactly the kind of post that provokes Twitter to do what Twitter does best i.e. lots of very funny replies mixed with some expertise, and some balance that should bring him back to earth.

But... nope. There's nothing. The replies are a seemingly endless stream of blue-tick sycophancy. There's no jokes, no funny pictures, gifs or videos, no piss taking at all. Not even a single reference to "creating a GUI in Visual Basic to track the IP address."

It's mostly people saying, "wow," and telling him how brilliant he is. It's no wonder he's delusional.

If there was any doubt Twitter has changed, I think that says it all.

[p1stonhead]

durbster said:

2xChevrons said:

There are people out there who dream of wielding this much power over underlings with zero accountability. Lording over their little fiefdoms, justified by the fact that The Company is so important. They usually become the worst sort of tyrannical small business owners who are a nightmare to work for and then complain about how no one wants to do a decent day's work anymore.

Anyway, Musk is having delusional fantasies about inventing the Internet today:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/17853579136340...

"I personally wrote the first national maps, directions, yellow pages & white pages on the Internet in the summer of 1995 in C with a little C++.

Didn’t use a “web server” to save CPU cycles (just read port 8080 directly). Couldn’t afford a Cisco T1 router, so wrote an emulator based on a white paper."

I'm no compsci expert but this is horsest, right? C with a bit of C++ in 1995? The first online 'national maps'? Before Thomas Guide? Serving stuff to the Web without a web server? What does a server have to do with CPU cycles? Writing a server in software? And while somehow using port 8080?

This seems to be half stuff that's impossible and half complete gibberish.

I logged into Twitter for the first time in many months because I thought the replies to this would be entertaining. That's exactly the kind of post that provokes Twitter to do what Twitter does best i.e. lots of very funny replies mixed with some expertise, and some balance that should bring him back to earth.

But... nope. There's nothing. The replies are a seemingly endless stream of blue-tick sycophancy. There's no jokes, no funny pictures, gifs or videos, no piss taking at all. Not even a single reference to "creating a GUI in Visual Basic to track the IP address."

It's mostly people saying, "wow," and telling him how brilliant he is. It's no wonder he's delusional.

If there was any doubt Twitter has changed, I think that says it all.

It’s a full cesspit now.

I used to follow racing etc on there, but just before I quit, you’d get something on F1 and then next to it some porn or someone getting violently assaulted or something. Without warning. It’s the Wild West now. Awful.