Liz Truss Prime Minister
Discussion
isaldiri said:
Well, clearly some people will believe anything that fits their view of things I guess..... I'm sure to some the UK could have just ignored a huge fall in sterling and gilt prices and just doggedly kept onto the idiotic budgetary plans that Truss and Kwarteng came up with and everything would have been fine......
^^^This. Anyone saying the Truss/ Kwarteng "Fiscal Event" did not inflame and utterly terrify an already twitchy market, is deluded.
julian987R said:
Decent article to be fair, although some will suffer from incontinence merely at the headline. I only read it after seeing this graph on Twitter.
The article said:
Rishi Sunak’s claim to Downing Street rests on being the grown up who took the car keys off a drunk. But all the electorate really hears is that the Conservatives crashed the economy with a mad experiment that they would probably repeat if they got the chance.
Fair.Rufus Stone said:
Castrol for a knave said:
^^^This.
Anyone saying the Truss/ Kwarteng "Fiscal Event" did not inflame and utterly terrify an already twitchy market, is deluded.
It was all pre planned. They were just waiting for the trigger event.Anyone saying the Truss/ Kwarteng "Fiscal Event" did not inflame and utterly terrify an already twitchy market, is deluded.
Castrol for a knave said:
In terms of trigger events, I recall it well. It was the equivalent of gathering all the UK funds fund managers, insurers and re-insurers, funders and investors and assorted local and central government pension schemes in a theatre, closing the doors and setting fire to it.
That would be a good start. 
Castrol for a knave said:
isaldiri said:
Well, clearly some people will believe anything that fits their view of things I guess..... I'm sure to some the UK could have just ignored a huge fall in sterling and gilt prices and just doggedly kept onto the idiotic budgetary plans that Truss and Kwarteng came up with and everything would have been fine......
^^^This. Anyone saying the Truss/ Kwarteng "Fiscal Event" did not inflame and utterly terrify an already twitchy market, is deluded.
isaldiri said:
Well, clearly some people will believe anything that fits their view of things I guess..... I'm sure to some the UK could have just ignored a huge fall in sterling and gilt prices and just doggedly kept onto the idiotic budgetary plans that Truss and Kwarteng came up with and everything would have been fine......
I am not sure you have read the article as it points out the temporary impact, including on bonds. What it does accurately say is that she did not crash the economy as nothing she did had any permanence, aside from policies that had broad support and would have been enacted anyway. Interest rates are in roughly the same place now as they were always going to end up given both rampant inflation and moves elsewhere. Therefore those complaining about Truss as they renew their mortgages are just parading their ignorance.
JagLover said:
isaldiri said:
Well, clearly some people will believe anything that fits their view of things I guess..... I'm sure to some the UK could have just ignored a huge fall in sterling and gilt prices and just doggedly kept onto the idiotic budgetary plans that Truss and Kwarteng came up with and everything would have been fine......
I am not sure you have read the article as it points out the temporary impact, including on bonds. What it does accurately say is that she did not crash the economy as nothing she did had any permanence, aside from policies that had broad support and would have been enacted anyway. Interest rates are in roughly the same place now as they were always going to end up given both rampant inflation and moves elsewhere. Therefore those complaining about Truss as they renew their mortgages are just parading their ignorance.
As for the article, while I agree Truss didn't crash the economy but the main reason why was that she got kicked out soon after with no chance to actually do any more harm. being already in the doldrums, the last thing the UK needed at that point was a collapse of the gbp and gilts. That would have been a proper crash and she very well could have crashed it far beyond where it is now had she not been forced out given Kwarteng and her were promising ever more unfunded idiocy over and beyond the initial market scare with the market perception of an unhinged lunatic in 10 downing street being uncannily accurate.
isaldiri said:
my comment was more addressed at the poster above that said the tories shouldn't have knee-jerked and kept her as PM without changing course.
As for the article, while I agree Truss didn't crash the economy but the main reason why was that she got kicked out soon after with no chance to actually do any more harm. being already in the doldrums, the last thing the UK needed at that point was a collapse of the gbp and gilts. That would have been a proper crash and she very well could have crashed it far beyond where it is now had she not been forced out given Kwarteng and her were promising ever more unfunded idiocy over and beyond the initial market scare with the market perception of an unhinged lunatic in 10 downing street being uncannily accurate.
AgreedAs for the article, while I agree Truss didn't crash the economy but the main reason why was that she got kicked out soon after with no chance to actually do any more harm. being already in the doldrums, the last thing the UK needed at that point was a collapse of the gbp and gilts. That would have been a proper crash and she very well could have crashed it far beyond where it is now had she not been forced out given Kwarteng and her were promising ever more unfunded idiocy over and beyond the initial market scare with the market perception of an unhinged lunatic in 10 downing street being uncannily accurate.
isaldiri said:
JagLover said:
isaldiri said:
Well, clearly some people will believe anything that fits their view of things I guess..... I'm sure to some the UK could have just ignored a huge fall in sterling and gilt prices and just doggedly kept onto the idiotic budgetary plans that Truss and Kwarteng came up with and everything would have been fine......
I am not sure you have read the article as it points out the temporary impact, including on bonds. What it does accurately say is that she did not crash the economy as nothing she did had any permanence, aside from policies that had broad support and would have been enacted anyway. Interest rates are in roughly the same place now as they were always going to end up given both rampant inflation and moves elsewhere. Therefore those complaining about Truss as they renew their mortgages are just parading their ignorance.
As for the article, while I agree Truss didn't crash the economy but the main reason why was that she got kicked out soon after with no chance to actually do any more harm. being already in the doldrums, the last thing the UK needed at that point was a collapse of the gbp and gilts. That would have been a proper crash and she very well could have crashed it far beyond where it is now had she not been forced out given Kwarteng and her were promising ever more unfunded idiocy over and beyond the initial market scare with the market perception of an unhinged lunatic in 10 downing street being uncannily accurate.
The other things like the 45% were basically just a bit of glitter an would have had little impact.
As the article alludes to people were happy to get free stuff but oddly not so happy to pay it back. As someone impacted by tax rises but who was not eligible for furlough etc I am not sure I have much sympathy
Rufus Stone said:
Gecko1978 said:
yu miss key point in the article the two largest give aways were removing social care levy and the energy price support...those were kept in and supported by all parties.
They didn't remove the increase in the Dividend tax. b
ds.Gecko1978 said:
yu miss key point in the article the two largest give aways were removing social care levy and the energy price support...those were kept in and supported by all parties.
The other things like the 45% were basically just a bit of glitter an would have had little impact.
As the article alludes to people were happy to get free stuff but oddly not so happy to pay it back. As someone impacted by tax rises but who was not eligible for furlough etc I am not sure I have much sympathy
You miss the key point that the fiscally insane were not longer in charge and keen to be racking up even more debt with only the nebulous promise of 'growth' somehow that would pay for it.The other things like the 45% were basically just a bit of glitter an would have had little impact.
As the article alludes to people were happy to get free stuff but oddly not so happy to pay it back. As someone impacted by tax rises but who was not eligible for furlough etc I am not sure I have much sympathy
And the energy price support was cut from 2 years to 6 months which would then be reviewed. that was potentially not an insignificant difference in liability.
isaldiri said:
You miss the key point that the fiscally insane were not longer in charge and keen to be racking up even more debt with only the nebulous promise of 'growth' somehow that would pay for it.
I'm glad things have improved under Sunak/Hunt. Now we have increasing debt, increasing taxation, and no prospect of growth.Edited by Rufus Stone on Thursday 28th March 15:10
isaldiri said:
JagLover said:
isaldiri said:
Well, clearly some people will believe anything that fits their view of things I guess..... I'm sure to some the UK could have just ignored a huge fall in sterling and gilt prices and just doggedly kept onto the idiotic budgetary plans that Truss and Kwarteng came up with and everything would have been fine......
I am not sure you have read the article as it points out the temporary impact, including on bonds. What it does accurately say is that she did not crash the economy as nothing she did had any permanence, aside from policies that had broad support and would have been enacted anyway. Interest rates are in roughly the same place now as they were always going to end up given both rampant inflation and moves elsewhere. Therefore those complaining about Truss as they renew their mortgages are just parading their ignorance.
As for the article, while I agree Truss didn't crash the economy but the main reason why was that she got kicked out soon after with no chance to actually do any more harm. being already in the doldrums, the last thing the UK needed at that point was a collapse of the gbp and gilts. That would have been a proper crash and she very well could have crashed it far beyond where it is now had she not been forced out given Kwarteng and her were promising ever more unfunded idiocy over and beyond the initial market scare with the market perception of an unhinged lunatic in 10 downing street being uncannily accurate.
The issue was it would be far worse under Truss. The rest of the world was trying to kill inflation, which would also wipe out growth. So where Truss thought this growth would come from is beyond me. It wasn’t that her policies were bad in themselves, it was the timing. It’s like a debt junkie already massively in trouble trying to take another massive loan on a random idea to make money. If you did it at the right time and with a good plan it’s fine to borrow money. They just put their own economic dogma into action when it absolutely was not the time to do that, that’s it. It was bad in itself, but the issue was a lot to do with ignoring the advise and showing themselves as morons.
NRS said:
The issue was it would be far worse under Truss. The rest of the world was trying to kill inflation, which would also wipe out growth. So where Truss thought this growth would come from is beyond me. It wasn’t that her policies were bad in themselves, it was the timing. It’s like a debt junkie already massively in trouble trying to take another massive loan on a random idea to make money. If you did it at the right time and with a good plan it’s fine to borrow money. They just put their own economic dogma into action when it absolutely was not the time to do that, that’s it. It was bad in itself, but the issue was a lot to do with ignoring the advise and showing themselves as morons.
It wasn't an issue of policy timing. Growth vs inflation isn't necessarily a contradiction either (see the US for example that by fluke or otherwise that has got both growth since 2H 2022 and inflation back to semi reasonable levels faster than anyone else). It's more that Truss/Kwarteng were assuming that everyone else that the UK was reliant on to borrow money from would also believe in her magical claims of growth somehow. When you are perceived as vaguely credible that might even have been possible. it's just not going to happen when you are (rightly) seen as unhinged. 
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