Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 4)

[Mortarboard]

crankedup5 said:

Well I suppose defining ‘rapid expansion’ helps, how does a decade or two square up. Also perhaps you would care to qualify with evidence your statement.
I would invite you to visit East Anglia the hub of expansion of these industries.(I can’t promise a lunch out though )

Well, their purchasing of raw materials says they're stagnating. Can't make any of that stuff out of fresh air, or alternative materials
Ironically, this is one area that can definitely cite covid as a factor.

M.

[HM-2]

Murph7355 said:

I also wonder whether all is as it seems with the Belgian figures too.

I did wonder how long it would be before someone suggested "the figures were wrong".

crankedup5 said:

Think you are over egging your response there, 75.9% as of about six months ago is ‘almost full employment’.

I think you've misunderstood what "full employment" actually means from a technical perspective.

[blueg33]

crankedup5 said:

blueg33 said:

crankedup5 said:

We have almost full employment

If ever there was an argument for opening up borders to people from our nearest neighbours, that is it. Couple that with an aging population then economic growth will be virtually impossible without increasing the workforce.

Edited by blueg33 on Tuesday 24th January 13:24

Many economies are currently struggling to find labour to fill vacancies, it’s not a problem confined to UK

Indeed, its a problem for many developed countries, as wealth increases birth rate drops. Other countries generally didnt make it a conscious decision to make it harder for people with the skills they need to get there, they didnt make a conscious decision to make them feel unwelcome etc

[crankedup5]

HM-2 said:

Murph7355 said:

I also wonder whether all is as it seems with the Belgian figures too.

I did wonder how long it would be before someone suggested "the figures were wrong".

crankedup5 said:

Think you are over egging your response there, 75.9% as of about six months ago is ‘almost full employment’.

I think you've misunderstood what "full employment" actually means from a technical perspective.

And you have misquoted me, I said ‘almost full employment’. Which renders your response worthless.

[crankedup5]

Mortarboard said:

crankedup5 said:

Well I suppose defining ‘rapid expansion’ helps, how does a decade or two square up. Also perhaps you would care to qualify with evidence your statement.
I would invite you to visit East Anglia the hub of expansion of these industries.(I can’t promise a lunch out though )

Well, their purchasing of raw materials says they're stagnating. Can't make any of that stuff out of fresh air, or alternative materials
Ironically, this is one area that can definitely cite covid as a factor.

M.

The purchase of raw materials over a short time frame, you suggest is stagnating, has absolutely nothing to do with sector growth. Massive multi million pounds infrastructure expansions within these sectors also support the notion of rapid expansion. The sectors are attracting huge investments for good reason, and that investment is not only going into the infrastructure but most importantly into R&D.

[crankedup5]

blueg33 said:

crankedup5 said:

blueg33 said:

crankedup5 said:

We have almost full employment

If ever there was an argument for opening up borders to people from our nearest neighbours, that is it. Couple that with an aging population then economic growth will be virtually impossible without increasing the workforce.

Edited by blueg33 on Tuesday 24th January 13:24

Many economies are currently struggling to find labour to fill vacancies, it’s not a problem confined to UK

Indeed, its a problem for many developed countries, as wealth increases birth rate drops. Other countries generally didnt make it a conscious decision to make it harder for people with the skills they need to get there, they didnt make a conscious decision to make them feel unwelcome etc

The U.K. is one of the most welcoming Countries to legal immigrants and refugees, it is only the media touting nonsense following brexit that suggests immigrants are unwelcome.
Many Countries outside of the EU also adopt controls that limit immigrants access to their Countries in line with their requirements. Just as the U.K. is adopting now. It is identifying our skills requirements as opposed to the rejected policy of FOM.

[Vasco]

Blue62 said:

Vasco said:

Bonkers.

As you say, half the population have no interest in making it work - still sulking, they should win a medal. So, they just make matters worse - and then have the cheek to blame others.

By the way, nobody will be taking the UK back into the EU. Sorry if you ever thought otherwise.

Do you really see half the population sulking and having no interest in making things better? I think there’s an awful lot of people who feel let down, many who voted leave and who can blame them?

We were told we’d have a US trade deal, though we are bling even negotiating one, we were also told the Irish border would not be a problem. Apparently it was going to solve immigration, though it’s got worse and of course we would have more to spend on the NHS, it’s on its knees.

We need to accept that Brexit is a mess and from there start doing something about it, the Tories have reached the point of no return so my hope is that the opposition parties start to take control of the narrative, despite the hard liners on here, most people know it’s not going well and want to see something done about it.

You only have to look at this thread to see the high volume of those clearly still upset at not getting their own way.

Sulkers are never going to willingly contribute much of use, they're too busy thinking that they've been hard done by. Some probably need to mature a bit as they seem like those children who get wild when someone says 'No' - and they've never had to cope with that before.

Pitiful.

[Mortarboard]

crankedup5 said:

The purchase of raw materials over a short time frame, you suggest is stagnating, has absolutely nothing to do with sector growth. Massive multi million pounds infrastructure expansions within these sectors also support the notion of rapid expansion. The sectors are attracting huge investments for good reason, and that investment is not only going into the infrastructure but most importantly into R&D.

Sorry cranked. They're stagnating. Raws purchasing has tanked.
Million pound expansions are small beans in this industry. Large expansions are multi-billion per facility. Pfizers expansion in grange castle (note, extension of existing facility, not a new one) is $1.2 billion
Intels new German fab is 17 billion euro.

If you have news of similar UK operations announced, by all means I'd love to hear them.

M.

[F1GTRUeno]

My mum is sulking because they're having to get rid of her Jag XK8 for something like a Fiesta or a Clio, and she's a bit of a snob.

My mum wants a British car made by British people. So I pointed out that neither of those are made in Britain, and that she's also remarked on how much she and especially my dad hate the French (but will gladly go on wine tours to Bordeaux and not say a peep to the French people there about how much they hate them. They've just got back from Scotland which I find strange as there's rarely a day goes by that I don't hear either of them saying how much they hate the Scottish), so it wouldn't make sense to give Ford or Renault their money if they wanted to stick to their 'principles'.

When I pointed out that aside from stuff like Astons and Rolls Royce you're stuck with a Nissan Note or a Corolla she said she didn't want something that was Japanese...

She was gonna order a new XE from Jaguar until they cancelled her order, admittedly they're made in Britain but owned by the famously British TATA Motors.

Then said that she'd be happy with her old Alfa MiTo back...you know the one made in Turin, East Midlands?

This is the same woman that said she couldn't go and buy British strawberries from the farm shop because of the EU and refused to get any from the Netherlands or wherever Asda/Tesco/M&S get them from and flat out refused to come with me when I offered to take her to the local farm shop to see if we could get some strawberries.

Wants to fly the flag for Brexit Britain but when it directly affects her, she bhes and moans.

[F1GTRUeno]

crankedup5 said:

I don’t see British people as being lazy at all, however the low end of the pay scale work, some you mention, are certainly jobs which have zero appeal in terms of, well just about everything tbh.

But we wanted rid of low paid immigrants from across the EU under the guise of taking back control for those British people who couldn't afford to work for such pittance so why isn't anyone forcing up the wages?

[Mortarboard]

F1GTRUeno said:

My mum wants a British car made by British people.

She could go for an iconic british vehicle:
https://levc.com/

Chinese owned now though.

M.

[Mortarboard]

Vasco said:

You only have to look at this thread to see the high volume of those clearly still upset at not getting their own way.

Sulkers are never going to willingly contribute much of use, they're too busy thinking that they've been hard done by. Some probably need to mature a bit as they seem like those children who get wild when someone says 'No' - and they've never had to cope with that before.

Pitiful.

Why isn't HMG doing brexit properly? Sulking remainers. Is that your argument?

Powerful lobby group that.

So it seems that if that's the reason for exports dropping, then are you saying that the folks who export from the UK thought that brexit was as stupid idea? That might be something worth looking into maybe...

M.

[Vasco]

F1GTRUeno said:

crankedup5 said:

I don’t see British people as being lazy at all, however the low end of the pay scale work, some you mention, are certainly jobs which have zero appeal in terms of, well just about everything tbh.

But we wanted rid of low paid immigrants from across the EU under the guise of taking back control for those British people who couldn't afford to work for such pittance so why isn't anyone forcing up the wages?

I don't recall 'wanted rid of low paid immigrants from across the EU....' Was it a key issue that I've forgotten?

[Vasco]

Mortarboard said:

Vasco said:

You only have to look at this thread to see the high volume of those clearly still upset at not getting their own way.

Sulkers are never going to willingly contribute much of use, they're too busy thinking that they've been hard done by. Some probably need to mature a bit as they seem like those children who get wild when someone says 'No' - and they've never had to cope with that before.

Pitiful.

Why isn't HMG doing brexit properly? Sulking remainers. Is that your argument?

Powerful lobby group that.

So it seems that if that's the reason for exports dropping, then are you saying that the folks who export from the UK thought that brexit was as stupid idea? That might be something worth looking into maybe...

M.

I didn't mention HMG.

[HM-2]

crankedup5 said:

And you have misquoted me, I said ‘almost full employment’. Which renders your response worthless.

It doesn't though, does it? The fact you prefaced "full employment" with the word "almost" has no bearing on your ability to comprehend what "full employment" actually is. Which you don't. Otherwise, you wouldn't have claimed the UK was at "almost full employment". Which renders your rebuttal worthless.

Vasco said:

Pitiful.

Yet more ad hominems instead of actual arguments. Almost like you can't contribute anything of value or worth, isn't it?

[F1GTRUeno]

Vasco said:

I didn't mention HMG.

Perhaps you should because the average person on the street can't do anything to affect it one way or another.

[F1GTRUeno]

Vasco said:

F1GTRUeno said:

crankedup5 said:

I don’t see British people as being lazy at all, however the low end of the pay scale work, some you mention, are certainly jobs which have zero appeal in terms of, well just about everything tbh.

But we wanted rid of low paid immigrants from across the EU under the guise of taking back control for those British people who couldn't afford to work for such pittance so why isn't anyone forcing up the wages?

I don't recall 'wanted rid of low paid immigrants from across the EU....' Was it a key issue that I've forgotten?

Low paid immigrants keeping the wages low for different sectors making British people uncompetitive hirees. Cranked has been very vocal about this.

Surely now many of these immigrants have gone home, British people should be working these jobs and demanding better wages as the lower paid rivals aren't there?

Was touted as a 'well business is going to have to up wages to get British people in' thing, that will definitely happen, definitely.

[F1GTRUeno]

Vasco said:

Bonkers.

As you say, half the population have no interest in making it work - still sulking, they should win a medal. So, they just make matters worse - and then have the cheek to blame others.

By the way, nobody will be taking the UK back into the EU. Sorry if you ever thought otherwise.

Half the population had no interest in making Britain work pre-Brexit and the sulking was incessant enough to force a referendum, so give us a referendum and we'll call it tit for tat on that one.

Unless you have concrete proof that this half of the population have 'just made matters worse' with actual actions then I suggest you look inwards at your cabal of idiots for the real reasons why Brexit is a shambles. It was never and never will be Remainers' fault.

[Mortarboard]

F1GTRUeno said:

Vasco said:

I didn't mention HMG.

Perhaps you should because the average person on the street can't do anything to affect it one way or another.

Maybe he expects remainers to do it all for him/her too.

M.

[Vasco]

HM-2 said:

Yet more ad hominems instead of actual arguments. Almost like you can't contribute anything of value or worth, isn't it?

I was explaining why too little is happening. Sorry if you couldn't understand.