Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 4

[king arthur]

BikeBikeBIke said:

Sleaker Johnson finally *saying* the right thing:

https://x.com/Ukrainerabbi/status/1780797029494518...

He is another one of those people for whom it is apt to apply the rule "don't listen to what they say, watch what they do".

[BikeBikeBIke]

king arthur said:

He is another one of those people for whom it is apt to apply the rule "don't listen to what they say, watch what they do".

Agree. Although this is a victory.

It shows the delay was political to pander to Trump's base and the real policy in office will likely be sane.

[moustachebandit]

BikeBikeBIke said:

Sleaker Johnson finally *saying* the right thing:

https://x.com/Ukrainerabbi/status/1780797029494518...

Don't believe it for a moment, I am certain it will all get derailed by the useful idiots in the GOP (there are a fair few of them).

[Mannginger]

Well that MTG woman is putting amendments in demanding not to give money until they invest in space lasers on the US southern border etc. Waste of space

[pingu393]

Mannginger said:

Well that MTG woman is putting amendments in demanding not to give money until they invest in space lasers on the US southern border etc. Waste of space

Is that the woman from Chernihiv? The town that had an apartment bombed a couple of nights ago and killed 16?

[Mannginger]

Marjorie Taylor green. US House representative

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-w...

She also wanted an amendment that anyone voting for the bill has to join the Ukrainian army, one that said that Ukraine had to close all it's bio-weapon facilities before getting the money, and one that asks Ukraine to prove that all it's churches are free from government influence before getting the money. Basically she's a horrible human being who's trolling the process

[Cheib]

paulrockliffe said:

Cheib said:

Europe has to take the long term lead on this. Even if the US voted through the $60bil aid package Ukraine is not going to win this war….that’s enough to maybe get Ukraine armed again to the extent it can defend itself and take it to the Russians in a limited manner. It is not going to put Ukraine in a position to defeat Russia and defend themselves in the long term.

In other news the US politicians are apparently voting on Ukraine/Israel aid in the next few days…

If the vote passes on Saturday, it authorises the immediate transfer of ATACMS, there's 1,000 of those sat waiting for decommissioning, more than there are targets. They would have a huge impact on their own and aren't part of the dollar value of aid because they are worthless.

Great news is that is correct ? The thing that concerns me is that Biden was incredibly reluctant to let any ATACMS go to Ukraine initially and I think when they did get some it was very small quantities.

[Cheib]

moustachebandit said:

BikeBikeBIke said:

Sleaker Johnson finally *saying* the right thing:

https://x.com/Ukrainerabbi/status/1780797029494518...

Don't believe it for a moment, I am certain it will all get derailed by the useful idiots in the GOP (there are a fair few of them).

It could very definitely get derailed but that’s a change in the tone. Let’s hope something good comes of it !

[J4CKO]

Mannginger said:

Marjorie Taylor green. Kremlin representative

Bet shes on Vlads payroll.

[RustyMX5]

Mannginger said:

Well that MTG woman is putting amendments in demanding not to give money until they invest in space lasers on the US southern border etc. Waste of space

I was always told that the effectiveness of a laser reduces the further it has to travel because of things like divergence and well, atmosphere. I'm guessing MTG has access to better information than me.

[BikeBikeBIke]

Cheib said:

Great news is that is correct ? The thing that concerns me is that Biden was incredibly reluctant to let any ATACMS go to Ukraine initially and I think when they did get some it was very small quantities.

I think the "don't want attacks deep into Russia" ship has now sailed.

[Iamnotkloot]

A pretty bleak assessment but there are still things that can be done...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/18/ukrain...

This part is interesting and should definitely be considered by France and the UK (I doubt Germany et al would want to take part).....

"...we have now demonstrated that the RAF and other NATO fighter jets can shoot down drones and missiles fired at civilians without being engaged by Iran. Surely we can offer similar assistance in Ukraine?"

[borcy]

Simplistic thinking, situations are very different.

[hidetheelephants]

If a way to do it that doesn't start WW3 can be devised I'm all in. We could start by donating all the Tranche 1 Typhoons to a 21st century Flying Tigers.

[Iamnotkloot]

borcy said:

Simplistic thinking, situations are very different.

He was a colonel in the British Army and commanding officer of the UK's Joint Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear Regiment and NATO's Rapid Reaction CBRN Battalion; posts not generally known for 'simplistic thinking'.

I, however, am a simple man - my thinking is that if we don't start defending Ukraine properly, then Russia will take it. I think the idea mentioned has merit.

[paulrockliffe]

hidetheelephants said:

If a way to do it that doesn't start WW3 can be devised I'm all in. We could start by donating all the Tranche 1 Typhoons to a 21st century Flying Tigers.

Exactly, without complete air defences, Russia sends a MIG on a suicide mission and we shoot it down or not? There are less direct ways of resolving the issue if there is the political will to defeat Russia.

[ecsrobin]

Iamnotkloot said:

He was a colonel in the British Army and commanding officer of the UK's Joint Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear Regiment and NATO's Rapid Reaction CBRN Battalion; posts not generally known for 'simplistic thinking'.

I, however, am a simple man - my thinking is that if we don't start defending Ukraine properly, then Russia will take it. I think the idea mentioned has merit.

Which means he probably spent his whole career sat in the UK, and certainly won’t understand air power like a member of the RAF or AAC would.

[off_again]

Mannginger said:

Marjorie Taylor green. US House representative

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-w...

She also wanted an amendment that anyone voting for the bill has to join the Ukrainian army, one that said that Ukraine had to close all it's bio-weapon facilities before getting the money, and one that asks Ukraine to prove that all it's churches are free from government influence before getting the money. Basically she's a horrible human being who's trolling the process

This is NOT fake:



She's even too ridiculous for Fox News now! And yes, she is way worse than a useful idiot, she's clearly got an agenda and is prepared to take everyone down with it. An utter disgrace of a public servant - she is so far removed from that. Its pretty obvious that she is a self-serving, money & attention grabbing nightmare.

[borcy]

Iamnotkloot said:

He was a colonel in the British Army and commanding officer of the UK's Joint Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear Regiment and NATO's Rapid Reaction CBRN Battalion; posts not generally known for 'simplistic thinking'.

I, however, am a simple man - my thinking is that if we don't start defending Ukraine properly, then Russia will take it. I think the idea mentioned has merit.

Officers, current and ex are more than capable of coming up with daft ideas or pretending so newspapers can quote them.

[Iamnotkloot]

borcy said:

Iamnotkloot said:

He was a colonel in the British Army and commanding officer of the UK's Joint Chemical, Biological, Radiological and Nuclear Regiment and NATO's Rapid Reaction CBRN Battalion; posts not generally known for 'simplistic thinking'.

I, however, am a simple man - my thinking is that if we don't start defending Ukraine properly, then Russia will take it. I think the idea mentioned has merit.

Officers, current and ex are more than capable of coming up with daft ideas or pretending so newspapers can quote them.

Crikey Borcy and ecsrobin, try playing the ball and not the man.

The idea is a good one, It'd be a no-fly zone over places like Kiev and Lviv to prevent Russian missiles and drones killing civilians. I.e. the airplanes/SAM systems involved on our side would be shooting down robots, not Russian pilots (the latter never fly over Ukraine in the main as it's already too dangerous for humans). It's not escalatory, imho, at least not compared to HIMARS/ ATACMS/F-16's etc.

Ukraine are currently losing - that's the harsh reality. We need to do more.