Russia Invades Ukraine. Volume 4
Discussion
As much as we laugh at the Russian tanks that are now nicknamed 'turtles' 4 were able to launch a successful attack despite being under attack.
It might only be 4 but historically all would have been wiped out by FPV drones, if all tanks get these modifications on the frontline then we have a problem.
https://t.me/combatfootageua/15389?single
It might only be 4 but historically all would have been wiped out by FPV drones, if all tanks get these modifications on the frontline then we have a problem.
https://t.me/combatfootageua/15389?single
RichFN2 said:
pingu393 said:
hidetheelephants said:
pingu393 said:
I don't know if it's UKR or ruzzian, but the latest post on Denys' Telegram is of a T72? that looks like a garden shed with a barrel. The only target for a drone is the tracks.
No thick armour, just corrigated iron.
I'm sure it's not resistant to a 155mm shell and no doubt there's a Ukrainian developing a drone that can fire an NLAW.No thick armour, just corrigated iron.
I wouldn't be surprised if the tank is actually UKR.
When I was in Iraq, one of our threats was stainless steel welding wire strung across the road at head height. Our solution was a strip of steel in front of the guy on top cover. Simple solution eliminated a nasty threat.
This is a simple solution that may eliminate the latest threat. If NLAW drones come, then they will probably take the reactive armour off the tank and put it on the corrigated iron. The corrigated iron can also be upgraded to armour plate.
They also have signal jammers on top so it's purely for drone protection.
https://t.me/combatfootageua/15147?single
It completely takes away the attack factor unless you are directly in front of the tank, so as a battle tank its almost useless.
Pre turtle mode they were being destroyed by FPV drones before getting into a direct fire fight, judging by a few recent videos they are now able to actually make it to their planned destination. If they can keep doing this then it will drastically reduce the amount of tanks and armoured vehicles have been losing.
Pre turtle mode they were being destroyed by FPV drones before getting into a direct fire fight, judging by a few recent videos they are now able to actually make it to their planned destination. If they can keep doing this then it will drastically reduce the amount of tanks and armoured vehicles have been losing.
The ground is dry now and the construction really doesn't look very substantial so I suspect it weighs less than 250kg.
From what I have seen they and clear ground ok(Russian tanks have always been slower despite being lighter than ours)
The difference is the tanks and personnel are arriving in one piece and alive.
From what I have seen they and clear ground ok(Russian tanks have always been slower despite being lighter than ours)
The difference is the tanks and personnel are arriving in one piece and alive.
RichFN2 said:
The ground is dry now and the construction really doesn't look very substantial so I suspect it weighs less than 250kg.
From what I have seen they and clear ground ok(Russian tanks have always been slower despite being lighter than ours)
The difference is the tanks and personnel are arriving in one piece and alive.
All the above; it's a response to a very specific threat environment - and one that seems to work (on balance) in that context. If it was the US army it would be a lovely bar armour conservatory that rotated with the turret, but when God gives you scrap metal and crinkled tin... From what I have seen they and clear ground ok(Russian tanks have always been slower despite being lighter than ours)
The difference is the tanks and personnel are arriving in one piece and alive.
If the threats evolve, with situational awareness and returning fire moving up the agenda, then its grinder out and shed off.
Fascinating video on the demographic crisis for Russia:
This guy puts some estimates on te real cost of the war. On the flows of people to both the military effort and also fleeing to other nations.
He points out a few interesting facts too; one being not to forget that a few hundred thousand Russian men willingly signed-up for $2k per month to go kill Ukrainians. So though there are plenty of Russians, like himself, who not only opposed the war, but also had great sympathy for Ukraine, there's plenty that don't share those views.
This guy puts some estimates on te real cost of the war. On the flows of people to both the military effort and also fleeing to other nations.
He points out a few interesting facts too; one being not to forget that a few hundred thousand Russian men willingly signed-up for $2k per month to go kill Ukrainians. So though there are plenty of Russians, like himself, who not only opposed the war, but also had great sympathy for Ukraine, there's plenty that don't share those views.
Ukraine is the one with the most urgent demographic disaster.
It was already depopulating pre war.
Now something like half of all children under 10 are abroad. I expect the proportion who will never return home will be high. Plenty of them will have no memory of Ukraine by the time it's safe, and others will have little to none.
It was already depopulating pre war.
Now something like half of all children under 10 are abroad. I expect the proportion who will never return home will be high. Plenty of them will have no memory of Ukraine by the time it's safe, and others will have little to none.
PRTVR said:
pinchmeimdreamin said:
paua said:
PRTVR said:
Over the last few weeks Ukrainian has been focusing on the Russians air defence radars, possibly prior to the F16 becoming operational, I don't think that it will be long before we see them,
in the latest UK military assistance to Ukraine air to air missiles and glide bombs are on the list.
Yesterday it was reported that dummy missiles were launched over crimea and NATO were monitoring the radar returns and passing the data to Ukraine, its only a matter of time before a certain bridge is no more.
Hope you're right.in the latest UK military assistance to Ukraine air to air missiles and glide bombs are on the list.
Yesterday it was reported that dummy missiles were launched over crimea and NATO were monitoring the radar returns and passing the data to Ukraine, its only a matter of time before a certain bridge is no more.
Will it need bunker busters or would enough missiles do the job ?
We’ve seen for the first time with these long range ATACMS that weapons have been supplied without it being telegraphed to Russia. I wouldn’t be surprised if the same thing is happening with weapons to take down the Crimean bridge.
Two very good podcast listens today. Battleground - They had someone on talking about Ukraine developing its own drone capability, they are aiming to build drones entirely themselves, all components built in Ukraine. Will make them much harder for Russia to jam/interfere with. Also mentioned were new long range drones.
Telegraph Podcast was very good as well. Had a US political commentator on. Very interesting on the political manoeuvring to get the Ukraine bill through congress. Apparently a lot of work was done on Johnson to get him to change his mind…and also to make sure he wouldn’t lose his job is he did get it through.
Also apparently the US told the Russians that if they were supplied with long range missiles by Korea the US would send long range missiles to Ukraine. That’s why Biden sent the long range ATACMS. Obviously we’ve seen it was in the bill that was passed but quite amusingly those members of Congress that pushed for that had no idea that Biden had already sent them.
pinchmeimdreamin said:
Have they got the firepower to drop the bridge though ?
Will it need bunker busters or would enough missiles do the job ?
Bridges are really really hard things to kill.Will it need bunker busters or would enough missiles do the job ?
In Vietnam the Americans lost 11 aircraft trying to destroy Thanh Hóa Bridge. The first attack used 79 aircraft, 46 were attack planes. It was hit by about 300 bombs (including tv guided and laser guided) from 1968 to 1972 when it was eventually destroyed.
paua said:
PRTVR said:
Over the last few weeks Ukrainian has been focusing on the Russians air defence radars, possibly prior to the F16 becoming operational, I don't think that it will be long before we see them,
in the latest UK military assistance to Ukraine air to air missiles and glide bombs are on the list.
Yesterday it was reported that dummy missiles were launched over crimea and NATO were monitoring the radar returns and passing the data to Ukraine, its only a matter of time before a certain bridge is no more.
Hope you're right.in the latest UK military assistance to Ukraine air to air missiles and glide bombs are on the list.
Yesterday it was reported that dummy missiles were launched over crimea and NATO were monitoring the radar returns and passing the data to Ukraine, its only a matter of time before a certain bridge is no more.
nikaiyo2 said:
Bridges are really really hard things to kill.
In Vietnam the Americans lost 11 aircraft trying to destroy Thanh Hóa Bridge. The first attack used 79 aircraft, 46 were attack planes. It was hit by about 300 bombs (including tv guided and laser guided) from 1968 to 1972 when it was eventually destroyed.
I’m no expert, but I suspect weapons have moved on since 1972.In Vietnam the Americans lost 11 aircraft trying to destroy Thanh Hóa Bridge. The first attack used 79 aircraft, 46 were attack planes. It was hit by about 300 bombs (including tv guided and laser guided) from 1968 to 1972 when it was eventually destroyed.
nikaiyo2 said:
pinchmeimdreamin said:
Have they got the firepower to drop the bridge though ?
Will it need bunker busters or would enough missiles do the job ?
Bridges are really really hard things to kill.Will it need bunker busters or would enough missiles do the job ?
In Vietnam the Americans lost 11 aircraft trying to destroy Thanh Hóa Bridge. The first attack used 79 aircraft, 46 were attack planes. It was hit by about 300 bombs (including tv guided and laser guided) from 1968 to 1972 when it was eventually destroyed.
loafer123 said:
I’m no expert, but I suspect weapons have moved on since 1972.
Sure but a 2000lb laser guided bomb will still do a LOT of damage if dropped in 1972 or now. I think the Walleye TV and Paveway Laser guided bombs used in 1972 were similar to what we saw in first gulf war. So not state of the art by today’s standards but still able to ruin your day.
PRTVR said:
nikaiyo2 said:
pinchmeimdreamin said:
Have they got the firepower to drop the bridge though ?
Will it need bunker busters or would enough missiles do the job ?
Bridges are really really hard things to kill.Will it need bunker busters or would enough missiles do the job ?
In Vietnam the Americans lost 11 aircraft trying to destroy Thanh Hóa Bridge. The first attack used 79 aircraft, 46 were attack planes. It was hit by about 300 bombs (including tv guided and laser guided) from 1968 to 1972 when it was eventually destroyed.
t load of momentum - that isn’t going to be stopped - the gentle nudge I’m pretty sure wasn’tPRTVR said:
nikaiyo2 said:
pinchmeimdreamin said:
Have they got the firepower to drop the bridge though ?
Will it need bunker busters or would enough missiles do the job ?
Bridges are really really hard things to kill.Will it need bunker busters or would enough missiles do the job ?
In Vietnam the Americans lost 11 aircraft trying to destroy Thanh Hóa Bridge. The first attack used 79 aircraft, 46 were attack planes. It was hit by about 300 bombs (including tv guided and laser guided) from 1968 to 1972 when it was eventually destroyed.
And as already shown on the hits on the bridge, hitting the deck is a bit pointless! 307 piers, which are huge structures in themselves.
Just how many you'd have to destroy to put the bridge out of long term use is beyond me, but I suspect a combination of HE and extreme precision is needed.
Evanivitch said:
PRTVR said:
nikaiyo2 said:
pinchmeimdreamin said:
Have they got the firepower to drop the bridge though ?
Will it need bunker busters or would enough missiles do the job ?
Bridges are really really hard things to kill.Will it need bunker busters or would enough missiles do the job ?
In Vietnam the Americans lost 11 aircraft trying to destroy Thanh Hóa Bridge. The first attack used 79 aircraft, 46 were attack planes. It was hit by about 300 bombs (including tv guided and laser guided) from 1968 to 1972 when it was eventually destroyed.
And as already shown on the hits on the bridge, hitting the deck is a bit pointless! 307 piers, which are huge structures in themselves.
Just how many you'd have to destroy to put the bridge out of long term use is beyond me, but I suspect a combination of HE and extreme precision is needed.
The precision for a near miss is easily achievable but the problem is the lack of laser guided Tallboys or Grandslams.
https://www.militaryhistories.co.uk/viaduct
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff