CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 19)

[119]

RSTurboPaul said:

That is not the same as a product seemingly being modified during production after being granted emergency authorisation for one defined product.

(And IIRC they also changed the manufacturing process between the EUA submission and actual rollout globally without telling anyone...)

I was saying that vaccines do get modified regardless.

What difference would a manufacturing process alternation make to the final product?

[RSTurboPaul]

119 said:

RSTurboPaul said:

That is not the same as a product seemingly being modified during production after being granted emergency authorisation for one defined product.

(And IIRC they also changed the manufacturing process between the EUA submission and actual rollout globally without telling anyone...)

I was saying that vaccines do get modified regardless.

What difference would a manufacturing process alternation make to the final product?

I don't have time right now to find the links but the outcome was (IIRC) that there was a much higher contamination of the end product with (again, IIRC) leftover DNA from the manufacturing process.

[119]

RSTurboPaul said:

119 said:

RSTurboPaul said:

That is not the same as a product seemingly being modified during production after being granted emergency authorisation for one defined product.

(And IIRC they also changed the manufacturing process between the EUA submission and actual rollout globally without telling anyone...)

I was saying that vaccines do get modified regardless.

What difference would a manufacturing process alternation make to the final product?

I don't have time right now to find the links but the outcome was (IIRC) that there was a much higher contamination of the end product with (again, IIRC) leftover DNA from the manufacturing process.

Ok that makes sense.

Cheers.

[pork911]

jameswills said:

pork911 said:

Well, I think OJ was fully vaccinated but MSM did not mention that.

Genuinely though do you think your life is better or worse for spending time researching vaccines?

Much much better, I see through all the lies and bullst now, everything makes a lot more sense. Vaccines are a very small part of what I’ve dived into. I’ve tend to find now that whatever you are fed in terms of information, invert it and you’ll get much closer to the real truth and it’s easier to live your life. And digging into the real ideas and people behind certain decisions is quite an interesting and enlightening experience. Not for everyone, I’m sure. And also I’m not certain that I am “right” either. And that believe it or not is a nicer place to be than just lapping up every news story or government narrative!

Thanks.
Although lapping up news and gov narrative or critiquing them are not the only choices.

[alangla]

RSTurboPaul said:

OzzyR1 said:

119 said:

21st Century Man said:

I've noticed the return of face coverings whilst out and about, after an absence for a couple of years.

I haven't seen any at all.

Can't say I have either.
I go into & around London on the tube two or three days a week for work and the vast majority of people I notice wearing masks now are East / SE Asian in appearance.
That was the case before Covid, think it is more common practice to mask up on public transport in some countries: Japan, Korea etc.

Must say I still carry a little bottle of hand sanitiser with me - travelling during/after Covid made me realise how many people cough / sneeze into their hand then grab hold of the rails, or have a good scratch of their arse and use that hand to steady themselves on a carriage pole.

They get off at their stop, and you watch someone enter and grab the same handrail the previous person just wiped their snotty hand on.
I'm not a germophobe by any means, but it made me think about how grim most surfaces on public transport are.

The study done to look at whether Covid could be found on / cultivated from surfaces on the rail network turned up, er, zero instances IIRC.

I think the point Ozzy was making was more that he’s become more aware of the amount of snot, arse-scratchings and other crap that gets onto the handrails and as a result is cleaning his hands more often. That’s probably not an untypical position post-pandemic and although the hand washing/sanitising won’t stop you catching Covid, it will stop you scratching your nose with a hand covered in someone else’s faecal matter.

I’ll be honest and say that I’m now typically wearing a throwaway glove to use petrol pumps, mainly to avoid getting the fuel and other crud on it onto my hand, not to avoid bugs. Probably partially cancelled out by me then using the chip & pin machine though.

[RSTurboPaul]

119 said:

RSTurboPaul said:

119 said:

RSTurboPaul said:

That is not the same as a product seemingly being modified during production after being granted emergency authorisation for one defined product.

(And IIRC they also changed the manufacturing process between the EUA submission and actual rollout globally without telling anyone...)

I was saying that vaccines do get modified regardless.

What difference would a manufacturing process alternation make to the final product?

I don't have time right now to find the links but the outcome was (IIRC) that there was a much higher contamination of the end product with (again, IIRC) leftover DNA from the manufacturing process.

Ok that makes sense.

Cheers.

Here we go, some reference to it in a response to BMJ:

https://www.bmj.com/content/378/bmj.o1731/rr-2

Rapid Response article on BMJ website said:

An October 2020 amendment to the protocol of the pivotal Pfizer/BioNTech BNT162b2 (Comirnaty) clinical trial (C4591001) indicates that nearly all vaccine doses used in the trial came from ‘clinical batches’ manufactured using what is referred to as ‘Process 1’.[3] However, in order to upscale production for large-scale distribution of ‘emergency supply’ after authorization, a new method was developed, ‘Process 2’. The differences include changes to the DNA template used to transcribe the RNA and the purification phase, as well as the manufacturing process of the lipid nanoparticles. Notably, ‘Process 2’ batches were shown to have substantially lower mRNA integrity.[4,5]

[RSTurboPaul]

alangla said:

RSTurboPaul said:

OzzyR1 said:

119 said:

21st Century Man said:

I've noticed the return of face coverings whilst out and about, after an absence for a couple of years.

I haven't seen any at all.

Can't say I have either.
I go into & around London on the tube two or three days a week for work and the vast majority of people I notice wearing masks now are East / SE Asian in appearance.
That was the case before Covid, think it is more common practice to mask up on public transport in some countries: Japan, Korea etc.

Must say I still carry a little bottle of hand sanitiser with me - travelling during/after Covid made me realise how many people cough / sneeze into their hand then grab hold of the rails, or have a good scratch of their arse and use that hand to steady themselves on a carriage pole.

They get off at their stop, and you watch someone enter and grab the same handrail the previous person just wiped their snotty hand on.
I'm not a germophobe by any means, but it made me think about how grim most surfaces on public transport are.

The study done to look at whether Covid could be found on / cultivated from surfaces on the rail network turned up, er, zero instances IIRC.

I think the point Ozzy was making was more that he’s become more aware of the amount of snot, arse-scratchings and other crap that gets onto the handrails and as a result is cleaning his hands more often. That’s probably not an untypical position post-pandemic and although the hand washing/sanitising won’t stop you catching Covid, it will stop you scratching your nose with a hand covered in someone else’s faecal matter.

I’ll be honest and say that I’m now typically wearing a throwaway glove to use petrol pumps, mainly to avoid getting the fuel and other crud on it onto my hand, not to avoid bugs. Probably partially cancelled out by me then using the chip & pin machine though.

I think it is interesting how awareness of 'contamination' has been raised and framed, to the point (for some) that all potential sources of 'contamination' must be avoided, and how that seems to run counter to the need for our bodies to maintain a level of 'contamination' in order for our immune systems to be active and learning and (therefore) more effective at dealing with infection of some kind at any point in time.

This is partly shown (IMO) by the obsession with 'kills 99.9999999% of all living things!!!1!1' products, which are totally unnecessary and would seem to just invite superbugs to have free rein over the space freed up by removing all other germs/viruses/whatever.

It would be interesting to run a study on differences in immune response and impacts of infection between those for whom 'cleanliness' is a top priority and those who 'live in filth'.


I'm with you on the gloves, though - diesel or petrol is nasty stuff to have smeared round your steering wheel. lol

[andyA700]

pocty said:

pork911 said:

jameswills said:

zarjaz1991 said:

True of many foods as well.

With vaccines though, the theory is that the benefits outweigh the risks.

That’s the message sold yes, when you deep dive into it, it’s at best nonsense, at worst it’s the opposite and has cause untold deaths and long term health problems. I’ve been looking into this now for ages, it’s not off the back of some Russell Brand 5 min YouTube video, before that gets thrown at me.

And yes foods is a bit of a nightmare too, I try not to think hard about that one, else I think I’d go a bit mad

Well, I think OJ was fully vaccinated but MSM did not mention that.

Genuinely though do you think your life is better or worse for spending time researching vaccines?

Can I answer this one please.... It's better because he didn't take the vaccine and get myocarditis.

It is interesting that this wasn't highly advertised in May 2021. I have Myocarditis and it manifested itself after I had the first AZ vaccine in late February 2021.

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1244/rr-10

[r3g]

The evidence keeps piling up for the jabs causing cancer (not that this is news to anyone who's been awake).

https://www.cureus.com/articles/196275-increased-a...

Researchers said:

Conclusions
Statistically significant increases in age-adjusted mortality rates of all cancer and some specific types of cancer, namely, ovarian cancer, leukemia, prostate, lip/oral/pharyngeal, pancreatic, and breast cancers, were observed in 2022 after two-thirds of the Japanese population had received the third or later dose of SARS-CoV-2 mRNA-LNP vaccine. These particularly marked increases in mortality rates of these ER?-sensitive cancers may be attributable to several mechanisms of the mRNA-LNP vaccination rather than COVID-19 infection itself or reduced cancer care due to the lockdown. The significance of this possibility warrants further studies. This article was previously posted to the Zenodo repository server on September 18, 2023.

JC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onww2X-ecfg

Brave Fart should go tell him he's a "unhinged CTer".

Edited by r3g on Monday 15th April 02:19

[rider73]

r3g said:

The evidence keeps piling up for the jabs causing cancer (not that this is news to anyone who's been awake).

https://www.cureus.com/articles/196275-increased-a...

Researchers said:

Conclusions
Statistically significant increases in age-adjusted mortality rates of all cancer and some specific types of cancer, namely, ovarian cancer, leukemia, prostate, lip/oral/pharyngeal, pancreatic, and breast cancers, were observed in 2022 after two-thirds of the Japanese population had received the third or later dose of SARS-CoV-2 mRNA-LNP vaccine. These particularly marked increases in mortality rates of these ER?-sensitive cancers may be attributable to several mechanisms of the mRNA-LNP vaccination rather than COVID-19 infection itself or reduced cancer care due to the lockdown. The significance of this possibility warrants further studies. This article was previously posted to the Zenodo repository server on September 18, 2023.

JC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onww2X-ecfg

Brave Fart should go tell him he's a "unhinged CTer".

Edited by r3g on Monday 15th April 02:19

These are the sort of studies that will be brought out in an international enquiry in about 20 years time when old crusty people-in-charge-at-the-time wont remember the "details" or were not "made aware".....

[The Selfish Gene]

jameswills said:

Much much better, I see through all the lies and bullst now, everything makes a lot more sense. Vaccines are a very small part of what I’ve dived into. I’ve tend to find now that whatever you are fed in terms of information, invert it and you’ll get much closer to the real truth and it’s easier to live your life. And digging into the real ideas and people behind certain decisions is quite an interesting and enlightening experience. Not for everyone, I’m sure. And also I’m not certain that I am “right” either. And that believe it or not is a nicer place to be than just lapping up every news story or government narrative!

100% agree with this. My life has been transformed for the better since I realised how this played out. There was a time, when I felt literally like the rug had been pulled out from my understanding of life. Like the feeling you get when you step off a step without knowing it was there.

Now though, fk me I feel enlightened, and my healthy distrust of authority has now become an unwillingness to comply with anything, unless I can see , personally the clear evidence of the need for it.

That's a very fine free place to live, and my children get the benefit too.

[Hants PHer]

rider73 said:

These are the sort of studies that will be brought out in an international enquiry in about 20 years time when old crusty people-in-charge-at-the-time wont remember the "details" or were not "made aware".....

It's worth highlighting the limitation of this study, namely that it was conducted using descriptive statistics from official sources and has not been clinically validated. The authors also suggest that further analytical statistics study by vaccination status is needed.

This merely confirms two things that I've said all along.

First, that we cannot be sure whether increased deaths are caused by pandemic restrictions, the virus itself, vaccines or some other factor. Perhaps a combination of these things. That is why further analysis is needed, as this study suggests.

Second - and following on from the first - that to assert, with no proof, that the vaccines are responsible, is unscientific and lazy. All we can say is that the vaccines might be linked to excess deaths, or they might not. We don't know for sure. Well, unless you agree with r3g who, it seems, is sure. But his position is, I believe, somewhat unhinged.

[alangla]

Hants PHer said:

It's worth highlighting the limitation of this study, namely that it was conducted using descriptive statistics from official sources and has not been clinically validated. The authors also suggest that further analytical statistics study by vaccination status is needed.

This merely confirms two things that I've said all along.

First, that we cannot be sure whether increased deaths are caused by pandemic restrictions, the virus itself, vaccines or some other factor. Perhaps a combination of these things. That is why further analysis is needed, as this study suggests.

Second - and following on from the first - that to assert, with no proof, that the vaccines are responsible, is unscientific and lazy. All we can say is that the vaccines might be linked to excess deaths, or they might not. We don't know for sure. Well, unless you agree with r3g who, it seems, is sure. But his position is, I believe, somewhat unhinged.

I think this is the key issue for me at the moment in terms of the health aspects of pandemic recovery. It’s clear that something is going on that’s causing the elevated levels of deaths etc, but no-one seems to be sure what it is and there’s not been much noise that I’ve noticed about large scale studies in academia to find out what that is. The vacuum that’s left is then easily filled with all sorts of claims about “it’s the vaccines” “it’s the Tories mismanaging the health service” “it’s Brexit causing shortages of staff” “it’s lockdown related backlogs” etc. One would think that finding out what was going on would be key and the apparent lack of urgency then allows for various other theories about political and pharmaceutical vested interests in not finding out. Even if there’s nothing suspect going on & it’s purely down to after effects of infection, we kind of need to find out.

[B'stard Child]

alangla said:

Hants PHer said:

It's worth highlighting the limitation of this study, namely that it was conducted using descriptive statistics from official sources and has not been clinically validated. The authors also suggest that further analytical statistics study by vaccination status is needed.

This merely confirms two things that I've said all along.

First, that we cannot be sure whether increased deaths are caused by pandemic restrictions, the virus itself, vaccines or some other factor. Perhaps a combination of these things. That is why further analysis is needed, as this study suggests.

Second - and following on from the first - that to assert, with no proof, that the vaccines are responsible, is unscientific and lazy. All we can say is that the vaccines might be linked to excess deaths, or they might not. We don't know for sure. Well, unless you agree with r3g who, it seems, is sure. But his position is, I believe, somewhat unhinged.

I think this is the key issue for me at the moment in terms of the health aspects of pandemic recovery. It’s clear that something is going on that’s causing the elevated levels of deaths etc, but no-one seems to be sure what it is and there’s not been much noise that I’ve noticed about large scale studies in academia to find out what that is. The vacuum that’s left is then easily filled with all sorts of claims about “it’s the vaccines” “it’s the Tories mismanaging the health service” “it’s Brexit causing shortages of staff” “it’s lockdown related backlogs” etc. One would think that finding out what was going on would be key and the apparent lack of urgency then allows for various other theories about political and pharmaceutical vested interests in not finding out. Even if there’s nothing suspect going on & it’s purely down to after effects of infection, we kind of need to find out.

Its that lack of urgency to investigate anything and the apparent radio silence towards any voices raising concerns that worry me.

However it is accepted norm in governement that you never hold an enquiry into something where you don't know the outcome in advance.

[r3g]

The cognitive dissonance is strong here today. Poor Nelly still wondering when people are going to stop squeezing past her in the room, trying to ignore her and pretend she's not there.

[jameswills]

The Selfish Gene said:

100% agree with this. My life has been transformed for the better since I realised how this played out. There was a time, when I felt literally like the rug had been pulled out from my understanding of life. Like the feeling you get when you step off a step without knowing it was there.

Now though, fk me I feel enlightened, and my healthy distrust of authority has now become an unwillingness to comply with anything, unless I can see , personally the clear evidence of the need for it.

That's a very fine free place to live, and my children get the benefit too.

I had never been able to put my finger on why I’ve felt a bit uneasy about the World since about 2008, sort of put that to the back of mind for a decade and then this nonsense did as you say feel like a rug was pulled and I needed to find some answers. I’ve recommended it on here, but Mattias Desmet book on Totalitarianism was the start, and his ideas on “free floating anxiety” were the key but I have never really totally understood it until now. I was anxious, but with no obvious cause during this time, then you realise it’s the “state” and the daily distractive bullst they feed you and control you with which was the “enemy” I had to face in order to rid myself of that anxiety.

[jameswills]

Hants PHer said:

It's worth highlighting the limitation of this study, namely that it was conducted using descriptive statistics from official sources and has not been clinically validated. The authors also suggest that further analytical statistics study by vaccination status is needed.

This merely confirms two things that I've said all along.

First, that we cannot be sure whether increased deaths are caused by pandemic restrictions, the virus itself, vaccines or some other factor. Perhaps a combination of these things. That is why further analysis is needed, as this study suggests.

Second - and following on from the first - that to assert, with no proof, that the vaccines are responsible, is unscientific and lazy. All we can say is that the vaccines might be linked to excess deaths, or they might not. We don't know for sure. Well, unless you agree with r3g who, it seems, is sure. But his position is, I believe, somewhat unhinged.

I’d love to see the working out on how a sudden increase in cancers and heart problems, and sudden deaths in the younger age groups that all came about from 2021 onwards could be anything else other than the “vaccines”. Which are known to cause cancers and heart problems. The AZ vaccine has been pulled from everywhere, yet there’s still a book out about how good it is and the woman behind it still has her Damehood.

At some point start joining the very large dots right in front of your eyes.

[Boringvolvodriver]

B'stard Child said:

alangla said:

Hants PHer said:

It's worth highlighting the limitation of this study, namely that it was conducted using descriptive statistics from official sources and has not been clinically validated. The authors also suggest that further analytical statistics study by vaccination status is needed.

This merely confirms two things that I've said all along.

First, that we cannot be sure whether increased deaths are caused by pandemic restrictions, the virus itself, vaccines or some other factor. Perhaps a combination of these things. That is why further analysis is needed, as this study suggests.

Second - and following on from the first - that to assert, with no proof, that the vaccines are responsible, is unscientific and lazy. All we can say is that the vaccines might be linked to excess deaths, or they might not. We don't know for sure. Well, unless you agree with r3g who, it seems, is sure. But his position is, I believe, somewhat unhinged.

I think this is the key issue for me at the moment in terms of the health aspects of pandemic recovery. It’s clear that something is going on that’s causing the elevated levels of deaths etc, but no-one seems to be sure what it is and there’s not been much noise that I’ve noticed about large scale studies in academia to find out what that is. The vacuum that’s left is then easily filled with all sorts of claims about “it’s the vaccines” “it’s the Tories mismanaging the health service” “it’s Brexit causing shortages of staff” “it’s lockdown related backlogs” etc. One would think that finding out what was going on would be key and the apparent lack of urgency then allows for various other theories about political and pharmaceutical vested interests in not finding out. Even if there’s nothing suspect going on & it’s purely down to after effects of infection, we kind of need to find out.

Its that lack of urgency to investigate anything and the apparent radio silence towards any voices raising concerns that worry me.

However it is accepted norm in governement that you never hold an enquiry into something where you don't know the outcome in advance.

Agree with all of these points and the aspect of an inquiry is pertinent.

There have been claims made about the excess deaths saying words to the effect of “we don’t know what is causing them although it definitely isn’t the vaccine” - that doesn’t help convince me that the vaccine sin’t maybe playing a part.

If it isn’t the vaccine then just show us the data to prove that claim rather than hide it or say we have the data but will only release it to the manufacturers……….

[Ari]

alangla said:

I think this is the key issue for me at the moment in terms of the health aspects of pandemic recovery. It’s clear that something is going on that’s causing the elevated levels of deaths etc, but no-one seems to be sure what it is and there’s not been much noise that I’ve noticed about large scale studies in academia to find out what that is. The vacuum that’s left is then easily filled with all sorts of claims about “it’s the vaccines” “it’s the Tories mismanaging the health service” “it’s Brexit causing shortages of staff” “it’s lockdown related backlogs” etc. One would think that finding out what was going on would be key and the apparent lack of urgency then allows for various other theories about political and pharmaceutical vested interests in not finding out. Even if there’s nothing suspect going on & it’s purely down to after effects of infection, we kind of need to find out.

This is absolutely key. When you consider just how VERY VERY important it was that the country knew exactly what excess death numbers were during the pandemic, to the point of daily briefings by the PM, the contrast to the current situation of excess deaths is, to put it very politely, startling, and it does beg the question, why is that?

[Ari]

r3g said:

The cognitive dissonance is strong here today. Poor Nelly still wondering when people are going to stop squeezing past her in the room, trying to ignore her and pretend she's not there.

So to be clear, you give absolutely no credence whatsoever to the other possibilities?

And presumably the irony is lost on you that this is precisely what you're complaining about (that people are not considering the possibility that it's the vaccine)?

Unless, of course, you have proof that it is the vaccine, in which case perhaps you could share it with us?