CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 19)
Discussion
RemarkLima said:
Is the "experience" somewhat analogous to asbestos?
I've never known of, nor met anyone affected by asbestos - this is despite knowing people who used to saw it dry, before being told, best damp it down before sawing it - or my uncle who used to mix up asbestos powder into a paste and use as insulation on hot water tanks.
However, the issues around asbestos are widely known. The vaccine risks haven't been helped by "Safe and Effective", to "No heart issues" to "Does sometimes cause issues". If the message had been honest, that there's very small risks, you wouldn't leave room for the "Lies! It's all lies!!", which has caused a mistrust in public health and all the further issues stemming from this.
There are known risks with all medication, and all vaccines. It's why informed consent really matters... Like others, without a lot more studies, it's just guesswork, there's proven carcinogens in processed meat [1], there's micro plastics, there's Teflon coatings, particulates, hormones (in food and taken) etc... Then throw in NHS delays, lockdowns, stress, depression, vaccines, etc... And really it's an enormous task to pick apart, and cynically, one likely to rock a few too many apple carts to get a desire to fund it.
[1] https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answer...
I agree with this to an extent.I've never known of, nor met anyone affected by asbestos - this is despite knowing people who used to saw it dry, before being told, best damp it down before sawing it - or my uncle who used to mix up asbestos powder into a paste and use as insulation on hot water tanks.
However, the issues around asbestos are widely known. The vaccine risks haven't been helped by "Safe and Effective", to "No heart issues" to "Does sometimes cause issues". If the message had been honest, that there's very small risks, you wouldn't leave room for the "Lies! It's all lies!!", which has caused a mistrust in public health and all the further issues stemming from this.
There are known risks with all medication, and all vaccines. It's why informed consent really matters... Like others, without a lot more studies, it's just guesswork, there's proven carcinogens in processed meat [1], there's micro plastics, there's Teflon coatings, particulates, hormones (in food and taken) etc... Then throw in NHS delays, lockdowns, stress, depression, vaccines, etc... And really it's an enormous task to pick apart, and cynically, one likely to rock a few too many apple carts to get a desire to fund it.
[1] https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answer...
The vaccine roll out was incredibly quick, which creates the potential for issues to be missed. We can state factually that they were missed with the AstraZeneca vaccine. By the time I had it, the NHS patient info leaflet already mentioned the risk of blood clots. Eventually we stopped using that vaccine altogether because of this. The Janssen vaccine was also dropped in the US for similar reasons.
Myocarditis risk with mRNA was actually identified very early. It was no secret, which was why the coercion of young people to take the vaccine for the benefit of the elderly was so repellent. We know now that it was also misguided because the ‘vaccine wall’ against transmission fell apart with Omicron.
I am not convinced the risks from these vaccines are much different to those from existing ones. The issue for me was the attempt to bully people who were at negligible risk from the virus into having a vaccine that did carry a risk.
All of this discussion about vaccines is pointless unless you recognise that the use case for an 80 yr old is very different to that for a 20 yr old.
If they had only been given to the elderly and vulnerable, with informed consent, this entire situation, which is fuelling deeper anti vax sentiment, could have been largely avoided.
r3g said:
BigMon said:
r3g said:
So in short then : you can't provide any links to back up any of your claims. It's just "Zerohedge is wrong because I say so". Cool.
We can keep dancing this dance if you want but I'll keep referring you back to the Jehovahs Witnesses answer.The bottom line is that you and your clique from the other thread continue to troll this thread by popping in every few days to inform everyone that the articles from (eg.) oncologists are "pish" but when asked to provide your evidence and workings to substantiate your claims and show why they are wrong, all we get is radio silence and you quietly slink off back to your bridge.
And no, I'm not going to explain to you why articles on the likes of zerohedge are, in the main, utter pish when it's obvious to anyone with an IQ over 2 why that is. If you think they're accurate and a good source of information then that's your lookout.
BigMon said:
More lunatic paranoia from you. I've made more posts on this thread than the other one you buffoon so if anything I'm more a member of this thread.
And no, I'm not going to explain to you why articles on the likes of zerohedge are, in the main, utter pish when it's obvious to anyone with an IQ over 2 why that is. If you think they're accurate and a good source of information then that's your lookout.
Why are they "utter pish" ? What is your source for this? Show your workings please instead of continuing to make unsubstantiated claims. What sites should people be using instead to get trustworthy and truthful content on covaids and vaccine matters? All you have posted thus far is a load of hot air with no substance or facts.And no, I'm not going to explain to you why articles on the likes of zerohedge are, in the main, utter pish when it's obvious to anyone with an IQ over 2 why that is. If you think they're accurate and a good source of information then that's your lookout.
White-Noise said:
OK being fairly new to this thread I am intrigued by this information and am interested to hear. Can you share some links for me, I hopefully am not a lost cause!
If I may chip in here, you would probably want to actually try to look through to the actual report or study being talked about to make a decision about how reasonable the report conclusion is. A further quick check of the main authors or which group or such has commissioned that probably would help if they may or may not have a long standing axe to grind.A lot of links to various websites cited by well.... each side loudly proclaiming something are almost always obviously biased with one being usually easily able to guess what said link might be about simply from who is claiming said 'facts'. While it's time consuming and boring, unless one is simply after amplifying on social media of a particular message, I have to say reading the actual reports concerned (even without detailed medical knowledge as most reports refer to numbers and data) is rather more useful than the clickbait sites being touted.
That said, there's always the possiblity of simply dismissing anything as 'fake' data should it say something you disagree with (as regularly done by both sides here) so I suppose as with most things in today's world, reality can be whatever you want to believe in.....
I have been tempted to write chapter and verse about how I’ve turned my own opinions on my view of the world 180 degrees in just 5 years, what books, the podcasts I’ve listened to, the debates, articles, papers, real life chats with real world people and show my thorough working out, not as evidence of being right, just to as to why I think what I think now. I feel it may help people understand how to go about discovering an alternative viewpoint and trying then to make your own conclusions.
I believe we’re spoon fed propaganda daily, we’re bombarded with it. BBC News to Netflix, it’s unavoidable and no one is immune. Unless you turn it off. I’ve been there, recognised it, done that.
But it will be a pointless exercise, as there isn’t a single point of entry to discovering what one sees as “the truth”, and unfortunately it’s the often cliched phrase “a journey”. You have to go seek it out for yourself, and you can only do that if you want to, or feel that you need to, and from what I’ve seen above, a lot of people aren’t prepared to do that, they want one single answer they can place their hat on.
But if anyone is curious, I can try.
I believe we’re spoon fed propaganda daily, we’re bombarded with it. BBC News to Netflix, it’s unavoidable and no one is immune. Unless you turn it off. I’ve been there, recognised it, done that.
But it will be a pointless exercise, as there isn’t a single point of entry to discovering what one sees as “the truth”, and unfortunately it’s the often cliched phrase “a journey”. You have to go seek it out for yourself, and you can only do that if you want to, or feel that you need to, and from what I’ve seen above, a lot of people aren’t prepared to do that, they want one single answer they can place their hat on.
But if anyone is curious, I can try.
isaldiri said:
White-Noise said:
OK being fairly new to this thread I am intrigued by this information and am interested to hear. Can you share some links for me, I hopefully am not a lost cause!
If I may chip in here, you would probably want to actually try to look through to the actual report or study being talked about to make a decision about how reasonable the report conclusion is. A further quick check of the main authors or which group or such has commissioned that probably would help if they may or may not have a long standing axe to grind.A lot of links to various websites cited by well.... each side loudly proclaiming something are almost always obviously biased with one being usually easily able to guess what said link might be about simply from who is claiming said 'facts'. While it's time consuming and boring, unless one is simply after amplifying on social media of a particular message, I have to say reading the actual reports concerned (even without detailed medical knowledge as most reports refer to numbers and data) is rather more useful than the clickbait sites being touted.
That said, there's always the possiblity of simply dismissing anything as 'fake' data should it say something you disagree with (as regularly done by both sides here) so I suppose as with most things in today's world, reality can be whatever you want to believe in.....
jameswills said:
But if anyone is curious, I can try.
Don't waste your time James. You will never get through to brainwashed people who have spent their entire lives with BBC television programming running in their houses, pumping out government propaganda telling them what to believe and think. The movie 'They Live' is a perfect example of this. All you will achieve is becoming the focus of attention in the other thread for a week or so, pitying your clearly deluded traits and serious mental health issues, then at the end of it Coldel will present his devoted disciples with the results of his psychoanalysis of you.jameswills said:
I have been tempted to write chapter and verse about how I’ve turned my own opinions on my view of the world 180 degrees in just 5 years, what books, the podcasts I’ve listened to, the debates, articles, papers, real life chats with real world people and show my thorough working out, not as evidence of being right, just to as to why I think what I think now. I feel it may help people understand how to go about discovering an alternative viewpoint and trying then to make your own conclusions.
I believe we’re spoon fed propaganda daily, we’re bombarded with it. BBC News to Netflix, it’s unavoidable and no one is immune. Unless you turn it off. I’ve been there, recognised it, done that.
But it will be a pointless exercise, as there isn’t a single point of entry to discovering what one sees as “the truth”, and unfortunately it’s the often cliched phrase “a journey”. You have to go seek it out for yourself, and you can only do that if you want to, or feel that you need to, and from what I’ve seen above, a lot of people aren’t prepared to do that, they want one single answer they can place their hat on.
But if anyone is curious, I can try.
I'd be interested.I believe we’re spoon fed propaganda daily, we’re bombarded with it. BBC News to Netflix, it’s unavoidable and no one is immune. Unless you turn it off. I’ve been there, recognised it, done that.
But it will be a pointless exercise, as there isn’t a single point of entry to discovering what one sees as “the truth”, and unfortunately it’s the often cliched phrase “a journey”. You have to go seek it out for yourself, and you can only do that if you want to, or feel that you need to, and from what I’ve seen above, a lot of people aren’t prepared to do that, they want one single answer they can place their hat on.
But if anyone is curious, I can try.
In the past I would have said its conspiracy of course we see the full truth. But I think as you move on and with more ability for folks to see information on social etc and how we can be manipulated it's key to try and have an open mind and take info from different sources.
jameswills said:
I have been tempted to write chapter and verse about how I’ve turned my own opinions on my view of the world 180 degrees in just 5 years, what books, the podcasts I’ve listened to, the debates, articles, papers, real life chats with real world people and show my thorough working out, not as evidence of being right, just to as to why I think what I think now. I feel it may help people understand how to go about discovering an alternative viewpoint and trying then to make your own conclusions.
I believe we’re spoon fed propaganda daily, we’re bombarded with it. BBC News to Netflix, it’s unavoidable and no one is immune. Unless you turn it off. I’ve been there, recognised it, done that.
But it will be a pointless exercise, as there isn’t a single point of entry to discovering what one sees as “the truth”, and unfortunately it’s the often cliched phrase “a journey”. You have to go seek it out for yourself, and you can only do that if you want to, or feel that you need to, and from what I’ve seen above, a lot of people aren’t prepared to do that, they want one single answer they can place their hat on.
But if anyone is curious, I can try.
I believe we’re spoon fed propaganda daily, we’re bombarded with it. BBC News to Netflix, it’s unavoidable and no one is immune. Unless you turn it off. I’ve been there, recognised it, done that.
But it will be a pointless exercise, as there isn’t a single point of entry to discovering what one sees as “the truth”, and unfortunately it’s the often cliched phrase “a journey”. You have to go seek it out for yourself, and you can only do that if you want to, or feel that you need to, and from what I’ve seen above, a lot of people aren’t prepared to do that, they want one single answer they can place their hat on.
But if anyone is curious, I can try.
Go for it James. I'd be interested in reading that too.
White-Noise said:
I'd be interested.
In the past I would have said its conspiracy of course we see the full truth. But I think as you move on and with more ability for folks to see information on social etc and how we can be manipulated it's key to try and have an open mind and take info from different sources.
Social media should be a gift, to share absolutely anything and everything, all kinds of wonderful theories. Yet there are forces at play to keep people going back to the same old narrative that we’ve been spoon fed since we were children and then indoctrinated through the education system. What are people afraid of? Take the subject at hand, what if the whole vaccination thing was a complete crock of crap, why would that be a problem if it were true? In the past I would have said its conspiracy of course we see the full truth. But I think as you move on and with more ability for folks to see information on social etc and how we can be manipulated it's key to try and have an open mind and take info from different sources.
As you say, an open mind. Everything should be on the table!
jameswills said:
BigMon said:
Go for it James. I'd be interested in reading that too.
I might do something purely cathartically, perhaps I actually did go insane and I haven’t realised it 
jameswills said:
BigMon said:
Go for it James. I'd be interested in reading that too.
I might do something purely cathartically, perhaps I actually did go insane and I haven’t realised it 
I've no idea if you had it or not
No it's not a trap. I'm open minded. I was brought up roman Catholic but decided it was BS by age 6
White-Noise said:
jameswills said:
BigMon said:
Go for it James. I'd be interested in reading that too.
I might do something purely cathartically, perhaps I actually did go insane and I haven’t realised it I've no idea if you had it or not
No it's not a trap. I'm open minded. I was brought up roman Catholic but decided it was BS by age 6
White-Noise said:
RSTurboPaul said:
Some have considered the pandemic reaction to be very similar to a religion.
Just as divisive And of course aided and abetted by a compliant media, both traditional and new fangeled.
Fear is a pretty good way to get compliance as was stated by parts of SAGE during the pandemic.
Elysium said:
Myocarditis risk with mRNA was actually identified very early. It was no secret, which was why the coercion of young people to take the vaccine for the benefit of the elderly was so repellent. We know now that it was also misguided because the ‘vaccine wall’ against transmission fell apart with Omicron.
I am not convinced the risks from these vaccines are much different to those from existing ones. The issue for me was the attempt to bully people who were at negligible risk from the virus into having a vaccine that did carry a risk.
All of this discussion about vaccines is pointless unless you recognise that the use case for an 80 yr old is very different to that for a 20 yr old.
If they had only been given to the elderly and vulnerable, with informed consent, this entire situation, which is fuelling deeper anti vax sentiment, could have been largely avoided.
Sorry for the snip and my bold, but 100% agree - especially the bold. It was the pretending otherwise that caused so much mistrust and disinformation, it seems like a massive own goal.I am not convinced the risks from these vaccines are much different to those from existing ones. The issue for me was the attempt to bully people who were at negligible risk from the virus into having a vaccine that did carry a risk.
All of this discussion about vaccines is pointless unless you recognise that the use case for an 80 yr old is very different to that for a 20 yr old.
If they had only been given to the elderly and vulnerable, with informed consent, this entire situation, which is fuelling deeper anti vax sentiment, could have been largely avoided.
BigMon said:
The ones who I can debate sensibly with like Elysium or Hants PHer have no need of such lists.
You keep getting your info from zerohedge and the like. I and others like me will keep occasionally pointing out it's pish due to it being, erm, pish.
Why thank you kind sir. You, and others, may have noticed that I no longer engage with r3g. I regard him as a deluded zealot who cannot be reasoned with. He has decided that the Covid vaccines (well, the mRNA ones anyway) are the cause of 'turbo cancers', heart disease and goodness knows what else. Sheffield United's terrible season is probably included.You keep getting your info from zerohedge and the like. I and others like me will keep occasionally pointing out it's pish due to it being, erm, pish.
My advice? As per Jehovah's Witnesses, save your breath to cool your porridge and simply ignore him. Oh, and you're correct about the Zerohedge pish.
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