Israel invaded
Discussion
andyA700 said:
z4RRSchris said:
how about just return to the previous borders, give the palestinians their own state, stop settlements and give them back the land, stop killing them all the time and let them live like normal humans.
then maybe they wont lob rockets over the fence
right now, its like asking prisioners to play nice and youll give them an extra 30 min break a day. they are still in prison, its still s
t.
I think that solution is what every sane person would like to see. The uncomfortable fact is that Hamas and Netanyahu are not sane and that the World stands by, whilst a genocide is happening.then maybe they wont lob rockets over the fence
right now, its like asking prisioners to play nice and youll give them an extra 30 min break a day. they are still in prison, its still s
t. Return to previous borders ie 1967, stop settlements and give the palestinians back the land?
It's just not going to happen on the Israeli side whatever or whoever is in charge of the palestinians.
isaldiri said:
andyA700 said:
z4RRSchris said:
how about just return to the previous borders, give the palestinians their own state, stop settlements and give them back the land, stop killing them all the time and let them live like normal humans.
then maybe they wont lob rockets over the fence
right now, its like asking prisioners to play nice and youll give them an extra 30 min break a day. they are still in prison, its still st.
I think that solution is what every sane person would like to see. The uncomfortable fact is that Hamas and Netanyahu are not sane and that the World stands by, whilst a genocide is happening.then maybe they wont lob rockets over the fence
right now, its like asking prisioners to play nice and youll give them an extra 30 min break a day. they are still in prison, its still s
t. Return to previous borders ie 1967, stop settlements and give the palestinians back the land?
It's just not going to happen on the Israeli side whatever or whoever is in charge of the palestinians.
skwdenyer said:
isaldiri said:
andyA700 said:
z4RRSchris said:
how about just return to the previous borders, give the palestinians their own state, stop settlements and give them back the land, stop killing them all the time and let them live like normal humans.
then maybe they wont lob rockets over the fence
right now, its like asking prisioners to play nice and youll give them an extra 30 min break a day. they are still in prison, its still st.
I think that solution is what every sane person would like to see. The uncomfortable fact is that Hamas and Netanyahu are not sane and that the World stands by, whilst a genocide is happening.then maybe they wont lob rockets over the fence
right now, its like asking prisioners to play nice and youll give them an extra 30 min break a day. they are still in prison, its still s
t. Return to previous borders ie 1967, stop settlements and give the palestinians back the land?
It's just not going to happen on the Israeli side whatever or whoever is in charge of the palestinians.
JJJ. said:
skwdenyer said:
Unreal said:
News reports that the US is going to support the Rafah attack in return for Israel limiting their retaliation on Iran.
Almost as if Israel had a bigger plan when bombing that diplomatic compound… 
Unreal said:
JJJ. said:
skwdenyer said:
Unreal said:
News reports that the US is going to support the Rafah attack in return for Israel limiting their retaliation on Iran. Of
Almost as if Israel had a bigger plan when bombing that diplomatic compound… One thing is clear, if they go for Rafah we can expect more of the same that's being going on for the last six months, that won't be ""interesting'' it will disastrous for the Palestinians, no crystal ball required.
McGee_22 said:
Qatar re-evaluating its role as mediator after lack of progress towards a ceasefire and accuses some parties of disingenuous role in talks.
Joining the dots between a US statement and a snippet from the Qatari statement it appears Hamas want a wider war in the area and are sacrificing the Palestinians of the Gaza Strip to that end.
Almost as if driven by some other irrational cause...Joining the dots between a US statement and a snippet from the Qatari statement it appears Hamas want a wider war in the area and are sacrificing the Palestinians of the Gaza Strip to that end.
Dagnir said:
McGee_22 said:
Qatar re-evaluating its role as mediator after lack of progress towards a ceasefire and accuses some parties of disingenuous role in talks.
Joining the dots between a US statement and a snippet from the Qatari statement it appears Hamas want a wider war in the area and are sacrificing the Palestinians of the Gaza Strip to that end.
Almost as if driven by some other irrational cause...Joining the dots between a US statement and a snippet from the Qatari statement it appears Hamas want a wider war in the area and are sacrificing the Palestinians of the Gaza Strip to that end.
I cannot see how this plays out well for Iran or the Palestinians. Both should have realised by now that they have no chance of being supported by Russia or China the way the Israelis are backed by the US and that other neighbours in the ME couldn't give a monkey's about them either. Iran will keep yapping until the Israelis destroy their nuclear capability and the mullahs are removed by a coalition of actors.
paulrockliffe said:
In effect, but it was resolvable. Hamas simply needed to stop digging tunnels, stop lobbing rockets over the border, stop importing weapons, stop organising terrorist nonsense with Iran and then ask nicely. With a track record of being not-dheads and generally behaving like a normal country towards its neighbours there would have been no need for any of that and it would not have been sustainable due to external pressure, regardless of the level of ideological opposition to Gaza as a country within Israel.
Hamas knows the practical reality of the geography in Gaza; they have a bigger neighbour that can stop them doing stuff. This is a normal framework that countries exist in all over the world. What those countries do, is studiously avoid stating that their aim is to destroy the bigger neighbour and then lob rockets at it.
As it was, October the 7th showed that the approach was overly lenient and now we are seeing the obvious result.
How did that work in the Palestinian territory run by a group more moderate than Hamas aren't treated differently, with settlers taking their land, the soldiers protecting illegal settlers and so on?heads and generally behaving like a normal country towards its neighbours there would have been no need for any of that and it would not have been sustainable due to external pressure, regardless of the level of ideological opposition to Gaza as a country within Israel. Hamas knows the practical reality of the geography in Gaza; they have a bigger neighbour that can stop them doing stuff. This is a normal framework that countries exist in all over the world. What those countries do, is studiously avoid stating that their aim is to destroy the bigger neighbour and then lob rockets at it.
As it was, October the 7th showed that the approach was overly lenient and now we are seeing the obvious result.
As I've said before I used to think until recently this was about Israel defending themselves. The problem is there seems to be during the times or areas where Hamas or similar have not been in power there is little difference in Israeli behaviour. I'm now far less convinced that if Hamas disappeared that Israel would change it's actions much. It could be said it is Netanyahu and he is (most likely) about to be kicked out. But it's not actually a change in direction when you look at who will likely win, it's people with a similar view but just a less toxic background as they were not in power for this attack.
isaldiri said:
andyA700 said:
z4RRSchris said:
how about just return to the previous borders, give the palestinians their own state, stop settlements and give them back the land, stop killing them all the time and let them live like normal humans.
then maybe they wont lob rockets over the fence
right now, its like asking prisioners to play nice and youll give them an extra 30 min break a day. they are still in prison, its still st.
I think that solution is what every sane person would like to see. The uncomfortable fact is that Hamas and Netanyahu are not sane and that the World stands by, whilst a genocide is happening.then maybe they wont lob rockets over the fence
right now, its like asking prisioners to play nice and youll give them an extra 30 min break a day. they are still in prison, its still s
t. Return to previous borders ie 1967, stop settlements and give the palestinians back the land?
It's just not going to happen on the Israeli side whatever or whoever is in charge of the palestinians.
The land in 1967 was never Palestinian, it was Egypt and Jorden, Egypt don't want Gaza back, I am not sure what the position of Jordan is.
There have been proposals to create a Palestinian state, There was one in Gaza and there were several proposals for the west Bank, but they have always been rejected by the Palestinians
Oliver Hardy said:
Why is it OK for Palestinians to kill Israelis and to fire rocket at them?
The land in 1967 was never Palestinian, it was Egypt and Jorden, Egypt don't want Gaza back, I am not sure what the position of Jordan is.
There have been proposals to create a Palestinian state, There was one in Gaza and there were several proposals for the west Bank, but they have always been rejected by the Palestinians
Why is is ok for israelis to kill palestinians (in vastly more numbers to boot) and to force them from their homes/destroy those houses so that more israelis can move into that land?The land in 1967 was never Palestinian, it was Egypt and Jorden, Egypt don't want Gaza back, I am not sure what the position of Jordan is.
There have been proposals to create a Palestinian state, There was one in Gaza and there were several proposals for the west Bank, but they have always been rejected by the Palestinians
The land in 67 might not have been palestinian but it sure wasn't israeli either. Perhaps the residents in the west bank might be offered a plebiscite about whether they want to do re their own state perhaps?
There have been proposals to create a palestinian state. It's always been made by the israelis to offer such a skewed and biased deal that they very well knew that no palestinian leader could reasonable have accepted it and in any case, they have never bothered to stop building settlements so whether they were ever entering negotations in good faith (certainly since Rabin) is highly debatable.
Oliver Hardy said:
The land in 1967 was never Palestinian, it was Egypt and Jorden, Egypt don't want Gaza back, I am not sure what the position of Jordan is.
but they have always been rejected by the Palestinians
The land pre 1948 was Palestine, no such thing as Israel then, never mind the '67 borders.but they have always been rejected by the Palestinians
The Palestinians have every right to object to anything regarding their land.
JJJ. said:
The land pre 1948 was Palestine, no such thing as Israel then, never mind the '67 borders.
The Palestinians have every right to object to anything regarding their land.
The Palestinian Arabs or the Palestinian Jews? As these were the peoples being administered by the British from 1922 to 1948 and prior to this the Ottomans. The Palestinians have every right to object to anything regarding their land.
JJJ. said:
One thing is clear, if they go for Rafah we can expect more of the same that's being going on for the last six months, that won't be ""interesting'' it will disastrous for the Palestinians, no crystal ball required.
Hamas can always surrender and return all hostages. They had that option from the very start.fido said:
JJJ. said:
One thing is clear, if they go for Rafah we can expect more of the same that's being going on for the last six months, that won't be ""interesting'' it will disastrous for the Palestinians, no crystal ball required.
Hamas can always surrender and return all hostages. They had that option from the very start.If they surrendered and handed over the hostages then there would be international pressure for rebuilding, a two state solution, free elections, settler withdrawal etc. But Hamas would not be in charge so it won't happen.
Unreal said:
If they surrendered and handed over the hostages then there would be international pressure for rebuilding, a two state solution, free elections, settler withdrawal etc. But Hamas would not be in charge so it won't happen.
Agreed, Netanyahu would have to go as well, which might just happen courtesy of the next election. Is there no one on the Palestinian side that could grasp the likely opportunity this could bring? (genuine question)andymadmak said:
Unreal said:
If they surrendered and handed over the hostages then there would be international pressure for rebuilding, a two state solution, free elections, settler withdrawal etc. But Hamas would not be in charge so it won't happen.
Agreed, Netanyahu would have to go as well, which might just happen courtesy of the next election. Is there no one on the Palestinian side that could grasp the likely opportunity this could bring? (genuine question)Jinx said:
JJJ. said:
The land pre 1948 was Palestine, no such thing as Israel then, never mind the '67 borders.
The Palestinians have every right to object to anything regarding their land.
The Palestinian Arabs or the Palestinian Jews? As these were the peoples being administered by the British from 1922 to 1948 and prior to this the Ottomans. The Palestinians have every right to object to anything regarding their land.
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