Israel invaded
Discussion
mko9 said:
It couldn't possibly be that HAMAS fighters deliberately went there to hide amongst the civilians, right? It could only be that the Israelis are the worst human beings on the face of the planet.
Israel doesn't have to tell civilians where to go for safety, they could just conduct their operations. They are doing it to reduce civilian casualties.
It’s worse saying a zone will be safe than airstriking it! How would you feel if that was your kid? Israel doesn't have to tell civilians where to go for safety, they could just conduct their operations. They are doing it to reduce civilian casualties.
NRS said:
mko9 said:
It couldn't possibly be that HAMAS fighters deliberately went there to hide amongst the civilians, right? It could only be that the Israelis are the worst human beings on the face of the planet.
Israel doesn't have to tell civilians where to go for safety, they could just conduct their operations. They are doing it to reduce civilian casualties.
It’s worse saying a zone will be safe than airstriking it! How would you feel if that was your kid? Israel doesn't have to tell civilians where to go for safety, they could just conduct their operations. They are doing it to reduce civilian casualties.
Use hospitals schools and hide behind and amongst civilians, are they allowed to be totally safe because of their actions ?
PRTVR said:
NRS said:
mko9 said:
It couldn't possibly be that HAMAS fighters deliberately went there to hide amongst the civilians, right? It could only be that the Israelis are the worst human beings on the face of the planet.
Israel doesn't have to tell civilians where to go for safety, they could just conduct their operations. They are doing it to reduce civilian casualties.
It’s worse saying a zone will be safe than airstriking it! How would you feel if that was your kid? Israel doesn't have to tell civilians where to go for safety, they could just conduct their operations. They are doing it to reduce civilian casualties.
Use hospitals schools and hide behind and amongst civilians, are they allowed to be totally safe because of their actions ?
PRTVR said:
How do you fight war against a group who do not follow your rules ?
Use hospitals schools and hide behind and amongst civilians, are they allowed to be totally safe because of their actions ?
There are long-established methodologies for "draining the water" that don't require mass collateral damage. However, the strength of Hamas, in terms of numbers, weaponry and a willingness to contest territory, would have made any suppression attempt one that either implied a lot of soldiers , a lot of casualties (for the security services) or a lot of ordinance - at least initially.Use hospitals schools and hide behind and amongst civilians, are they allowed to be totally safe because of their actions ?
To my mind, the IDF's intent is legitimate, within the narrow context of the period Oct-present, however they've pursued those ends using almost non-existent RoE and a Dresden-grade attitide to civilians and civilian property. It's hard not to think that a good slice of the IDF and Israeli body politic have an actively malign attitude to the Gazans and, in the absence of international pressure, they wouldn't choose to leave a dog in Gaza alive.
After 07/10 Israel had something of a carte blanch, even from those who have little sympathy for them -
but they seem utterly determined to make themselves into the bad guy.
PRTVR said:
NRS said:
mko9 said:
It couldn't possibly be that HAMAS fighters deliberately went there to hide amongst the civilians, right? It could only be that the Israelis are the worst human beings on the face of the planet.
Israel doesn't have to tell civilians where to go for safety, they could just conduct their operations. They are doing it to reduce civilian casualties.
It’s worse saying a zone will be safe than airstriking it! How would you feel if that was your kid? Israel doesn't have to tell civilians where to go for safety, they could just conduct their operations. They are doing it to reduce civilian casualties.
Use hospitals schools and hide behind and amongst civilians, are they allowed to be totally safe because of their actions ?
isaldiri said:
You expect a massively inferior military force to come out and fight the israelis on their terms? Seriously?
No. We expect them to carry on fighting no matter how many of their fellow Palestinians die. Because they'd rather kill Jews than surrender and let their women and children live.
isaldiri said:
PRTVR said:
NRS said:
mko9 said:
It couldn't possibly be that HAMAS fighters deliberately went there to hide amongst the civilians, right? It could only be that the Israelis are the worst human beings on the face of the planet.
Israel doesn't have to tell civilians where to go for safety, they could just conduct their operations. They are doing it to reduce civilian casualties.
It’s worse saying a zone will be safe than airstriking it! How would you feel if that was your kid? Israel doesn't have to tell civilians where to go for safety, they could just conduct their operations. They are doing it to reduce civilian casualties.
Use hospitals schools and hide behind and amongst civilians, are they allowed to be totally safe because of their actions ?
Many reports of Nethanyahu blocking negotiations that would have seen the hostages returned…
It’s obvious from the beginning that this was about more land grab and erasing Palestinians..
Funny how people shrug their shoulders when taking about Palestinians lives .. no doubt in my mind that this is exactly how sick in the head people justified and shrugged past attrocities , genocides and ethnic cleansing.
It’s obvious from the beginning that this was about more land grab and erasing Palestinians..
Funny how people shrug their shoulders when taking about Palestinians lives .. no doubt in my mind that this is exactly how sick in the head people justified and shrugged past attrocities , genocides and ethnic cleansing.
fizz47 said:
Many reports of Nethanyahu blocking negotiations that would have seen the hostages returned…
It’s obvious from the beginning that this was about more land grab and erasing Palestinians..
Funny how people shrug their shoulders when taking about Palestinians lives .. no doubt in my mind that this is exactly how sick in the head people justified and shrugged past attrocities , genocides and ethnic cleansing.
I suspect the problem with the negotiations was/is hamas want to remain in control of gaza.It’s obvious from the beginning that this was about more land grab and erasing Palestinians..
Funny how people shrug their shoulders when taking about Palestinians lives .. no doubt in my mind that this is exactly how sick in the head people justified and shrugged past attrocities , genocides and ethnic cleansing.
fizz47 said:
Many reports of Nethanyahu blocking negotiations that would have seen the hostages returned…
It’s obvious from the beginning that this was about more land grab and erasing Palestinians..
Funny how people shrug their shoulders when taking about Palestinians lives .. no doubt in my mind that this is exactly how sick in the head people justified and shrugged past attrocities , genocides and ethnic cleansing.
Bold: links please ? I have seen reports that suggested Hamas might release SOME of the hostages in return for a permanent ceasefire. That’s not really acceptable is it? I have no love for Netanyahu, but no Israeli PM is going to leave hostages in the hands of Hamas whilst agreeing to a permanent cease fire - especially if the reports of daily rapes and torture of the hostages are even remotely accurate. It’s obvious from the beginning that this was about more land grab and erasing Palestinians..
Funny how people shrug their shoulders when taking about Palestinians lives .. no doubt in my mind that this is exactly how sick in the head people justified and shrugged past attrocities , genocides and ethnic cleansing.
Funny how you always shrug your shoulders when talking about Israeli lives. .. no doubt in my mind that this is exactly how you justify and shrug off Hamas atrocities, including rapes, tortures, burning infants, mutilations and the specific targeting of civilians whilst hiding behind the human shield of the people they purport to represent.
Slowboathome said:
No. We expect them to carry on fighting no matter how many of their fellow Palestinians die.
Because they'd rather kill Jews than surrender and let their women and children live.
And the same applies to every single resistance group fighting to overthrow their perceived oppressors who very well know their own people will suffer as a result of their actions. Because they'd rather kill Jews than surrender and let their women and children live.
isaldiri said:
And the same applies to every single resistance group fighting to overthrow their perceived oppressors who very well know their own people will suffer as a result of their actions.
Yep. Go to war against a vastly superior opponent and you'll end up either surrendering or watching your women and children die.Luckily for this 'resistance group' their fighters have the incentive of paradise in the after life.
Slowboathome said:
isaldiri said:
And the same applies to every single resistance group fighting to overthrow their perceived oppressors who very well know their own people will suffer as a result of their actions.
Yep. Go to war against a vastly superior opponent and you'll end up either surrendering or watching your women and children die.Luckily for this 'resistance group' their fighters have the incentive of paradise in the after life.
Slowboathome said:
isaldiri said:
You expect a massively inferior military force to come out and fight the israelis on their terms? Seriously?
No. We expect them to carry on fighting no matter how many of their fellow Palestinians die. Because they'd rather kill Jews than surrender and let their women and children live.
isaldiri said:
Well the Taliban managed to be such a pain that the US gave up and left. And the soviets did too 30 years before. So it can be done rather than simply always expecting people to submit to whatever fate their conquerors see for to dole out to them.
Indeed! And like their plucky fellow resistance fighters, the Taliban, Hamas don't care how many women and children die if they get to kill some more infidels.Electro1980 said:
That’s not how humanitarian law works. Armed forces don’t get a free pass to kill civilians just because they are fighting an Irregular military that is using human shields. More so when they are not preventing an immediate threat but persecuting a war of retribution. Killing civilians is wrong no matter who does it.
Yup.Hamas just need better lawyers and this would all be over.
''Hamas presents ceasefire proposal detailing exchange of hostages, prisoners''
This was back in March according to Reuters.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-is...
So, just pointing the finger at Hamas is nonsense. Israel says proposal is based on 'unrealistic demands'. One has to ask what value the Zionists really put on the hostages.
This was back in March according to Reuters.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-is...
So, just pointing the finger at Hamas is nonsense. Israel says proposal is based on 'unrealistic demands'. One has to ask what value the Zionists really put on the hostages.
JJJ. said:
''Hamas presents ceasefire proposal detailing exchange of hostages, prisoners''
This was back in March according to Reuters.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-is...
So, just pointing the finger at Hamas is nonsense. Israel says proposal is based on 'unrealistic demands'. One has to ask what value the Zionists really put on the hostages.
Well, as I said, not all the hostages were to be released, at least not until the “second stage” which, when properly examined, was after the Israelis had withdrawn fully…. So essentially requiring the Israelis to give up their positions whilst trusting Hamas that it would keep its word. So, yes, unrealistic. This was back in March according to Reuters.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-is...
So, just pointing the finger at Hamas is nonsense. Israel says proposal is based on 'unrealistic demands'. One has to ask what value the Zionists really put on the hostages.
Unless of course you think Hamas would have behaved honourably? The same Hamas that rapes and tortures its hostages every day?
A very quick google will show very quickly how many times nethanyahu obstructed the return of the hostages ..
Let’s not forget this is the same leader who was responsible for killing three hostages…
Genocidal apologists still touting Israeli claims which have clearly been disproved and debunked but as this thread has shown people think .. ‘repeat a lie a enough times.. it just come true’
Waiting for the daily anti-semitism charge to be thrown around too …
Instead let’s just listen to the words of an actual IDF soldier …
I bet many more will come along in the months and years to will show exactly how ‘moral’ and great the IDF are …
Interview with an actual IDF soldier…..
This Israeli soldier was horrified by what he witnessed of the war in Gaza. He tells @SecKermani about one particularly troubling incident.
https://x.com/channel4news/status/1783179233721806...
Let’s not forget this is the same leader who was responsible for killing three hostages…
Genocidal apologists still touting Israeli claims which have clearly been disproved and debunked but as this thread has shown people think .. ‘repeat a lie a enough times.. it just come true’
Waiting for the daily anti-semitism charge to be thrown around too …
Instead let’s just listen to the words of an actual IDF soldier …
I bet many more will come along in the months and years to will show exactly how ‘moral’ and great the IDF are …
Interview with an actual IDF soldier…..
This Israeli soldier was horrified by what he witnessed of the war in Gaza. He tells @SecKermani about one particularly troubling incident.
https://x.com/channel4news/status/1783179233721806...
Edited by fizz47 on Saturday 27th April 22:23
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