Israel invaded
Discussion
Solocle said:
Well, that policy position does make you a Zionist. 
It's been adopted as a slur by those who would wipe Israel off the map, but at its core, anyone who believes in Israel existing is a Zionist.
Finally someone understands it!It's been adopted as a slur by those who would wipe Israel off the map, but at its core, anyone who believes in Israel existing is a Zionist.
Herzel et al would be spinning in their graves if they realised what some of the interpretations of Zionism have become.
JJJ. said:
It's not what they should do, it's what Israel should not do, why can't you understand that.
Now, obviously you're trying to bait me or trying to be a smart arse, whatever it's unbecoming.
I don't have the answers, I can't speak for either side. I don't know what's going on in the background especially what the US are telling the Israeli's. How about an initial ceasefire for starters? Hostages/Prisoner exchange. Etc. You know the sort of thing (it's very common, far from ground breaking), rather than ongoing death and destruction.
Regardless to the above, I don't believe it's in the overall interest of the Palestinians or Hamas to surrender unconditionally as you propose.
I can't make myself any clearer than that.
Supposing 5000 Hamas people held out white flags tomorrow. What happens?Now, obviously you're trying to bait me or trying to be a smart arse, whatever it's unbecoming.
I don't have the answers, I can't speak for either side. I don't know what's going on in the background especially what the US are telling the Israeli's. How about an initial ceasefire for starters? Hostages/Prisoner exchange. Etc. You know the sort of thing (it's very common, far from ground breaking), rather than ongoing death and destruction.
Regardless to the above, I don't believe it's in the overall interest of the Palestinians or Hamas to surrender unconditionally as you propose.
I can't make myself any clearer than that.
What happens to those people?
Israel accepts this, stops the killing and starvation then rebuilds Gaza and stops the killers Ng and settlements and mass arrests in the west bank.
Obviously not....so what would happen?
If the "all they have to do is surrender" crowd can't answer, it is a sign of not thinking it through.
As is repeatedly saying the same simplistic nonsense.
911hope said:
Supposing 5000 Hamas people held out white flags tomorrow. What happens?
What happens to those people?
Israel accepts this, stops the killing and starvation then rebuilds Gaza and stops the killers Ng and settlements and mass arrests in the west bank.
Obviously not....so what would happen?
If the "all they have to do is surrender" crowd can't answer, it is a sign of not thinking it through.
As is repeatedly saying the same simplistic nonsense.
What's your suggestion?What happens to those people?
Israel accepts this, stops the killing and starvation then rebuilds Gaza and stops the killers Ng and settlements and mass arrests in the west bank.
Obviously not....so what would happen?
If the "all they have to do is surrender" crowd can't answer, it is a sign of not thinking it through.
As is repeatedly saying the same simplistic nonsense.
z4RRSchris said:
Thats exactly what should happen, but wont, as israel will prevent it.
Doesn't matter how will prevent it. that list is about as likely as pigs to start flying because it's utterly unrealistic. Just as it is to think Hamas will just unconditionally surrender, most of the things are pipedreams. z4RRSchris said:
Thats exactly what should happen, but wont, as israel will prevent it.
It's a list, thats all bar somebody thinking they have a solution, which is in cuckoo land.The only way the conflict will be resolved is by the US and the international community telling Israel what to do, nothing else. It's that simple.
JJJ. said:
z4RRSchris said:
Thats exactly what should happen, but wont, as israel will prevent it.
It's a list, thats all bar somebody thinking they have a solution, which is in cuckoo land.The only way the conflict will be resolved is by the US and the international community telling Israel what to do, nothing else. It's that simple.
Then what?
911hope said:
JJJ. said:
It's not what they should do, it's what Israel should not do, why can't you understand that.
Now, obviously you're trying to bait me or trying to be a smart arse, whatever it's unbecoming.
I don't have the answers, I can't speak for either side. I don't know what's going on in the background especially what the US are telling the Israeli's. How about an initial ceasefire for starters? Hostages/Prisoner exchange. Etc. You know the sort of thing (it's very common, far from ground breaking), rather than ongoing death and destruction.
Regardless to the above, I don't believe it's in the overall interest of the Palestinians or Hamas to surrender unconditionally as you propose.
I can't make myself any clearer than that.
Supposing 5000 Hamas people held out white flags tomorrow. What happens?Now, obviously you're trying to bait me or trying to be a smart arse, whatever it's unbecoming.
I don't have the answers, I can't speak for either side. I don't know what's going on in the background especially what the US are telling the Israeli's. How about an initial ceasefire for starters? Hostages/Prisoner exchange. Etc. You know the sort of thing (it's very common, far from ground breaking), rather than ongoing death and destruction.
Regardless to the above, I don't believe it's in the overall interest of the Palestinians or Hamas to surrender unconditionally as you propose.
I can't make myself any clearer than that.
What happens to those people?
Israel accepts this, stops the killing and starvation then rebuilds Gaza and stops the killers Ng and settlements and mass arrests in the west bank.
Obviously not....so what would happen?
If the "all they have to do is surrender" crowd can't answer, it is a sign of not thinking it through.
As is repeatedly saying the same simplistic nonsense.
You probably need to get your head around the fact that Hamas are going to be excised and that the only option for them and the Palestinians is damage limitation.
They can take the chance provided by unconditional surrender or they can choose obliteration. This tends to happen when you poke a bear and all you have to defend yourself is a safety pin.
Unless of course, this is all part of the Hamas masterplan initiated in October that would lead to the destruction of Israel. That doesn't appear to be going too well.
fido said:
911hope said:
Supposing 5000 Hamas people held out white flags tomorrow. What happens?
Nothing until the remaining 25,000 surrender.So how do the sums add up?
30-12-5=25....does this make sense ?
Obviously the 10-12 k claim was quickly debunked as it amounted to 100% of the adult males killed. Had this been true, it would have shown amazing skill and precision in making all such kills the right people.
It would also raise the question of why kill the innocent ones, given their selection skills.
911hope said:
fido said:
911hope said:
Supposing 5000 Hamas people held out white flags tomorrow. What happens?
Nothing until the remaining 25,000 surrender.So how do the sums add up?
30-12-5=25....does this make sense ?
Obviously the 10-12 k claim was quickly debunked as it amounted to 100% of the adult males killed. Had this been true, it would have shown amazing skill and precision in making all such kills the right people.
It would also raise the question of why kill the innocent ones, given their selection skills.
What figures have the Palestinians provided in terms of fighters and civilians killed?
911hope said:
Supposing 5000 Hamas people held out white flags tomorrow. What happens?
What happens to those people?
Israel accepts this, stops the killing and starvation then rebuilds Gaza and stops the killers Ng and settlements and mass arrests in the west bank.
Obviously not....so what would happen?
If the "all they have to do is surrender" crowd can't answer, it is a sign of not thinking it through.
As is repeatedly saying the same simplistic nonsense.
You don't think Israel would accept the surrender and stop killing people?What happens to those people?
Israel accepts this, stops the killing and starvation then rebuilds Gaza and stops the killers Ng and settlements and mass arrests in the west bank.
Obviously not....so what would happen?
If the "all they have to do is surrender" crowd can't answer, it is a sign of not thinking it through.
As is repeatedly saying the same simplistic nonsense.
You're saying the current situation is no worse than the situation on 6 October?
Fair enough. If that's how the Palestinian people feel then thousands more are going to get killed.
Interesting article about what Israel needs to do to repair it's image in the wider world.
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-798922
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-798922
s1962a said:
Interesting article about what Israel needs to do to repair it's image in the wider world.
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-798922
God only knows what Hamas need to do after Oct 7 then.https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-798922
People still talk about the PLO/Black September and Munich. They'll be talking about Oct 7 for another 50 years.
Unreal said:
s1962a said:
Interesting article about what Israel needs to do to repair it's image in the wider world.
https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-798922
God only knows what Hamas need to do after Oct 7 then.https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-798922
People still talk about the PLO/Black September and Munich. They'll be talking about Oct 7 for another 50 years.
The article I posted was about what Israel needs to do help repair it's image in the wider world. Not sure why there is an equivalence to Hamas.
This seems sensible
article said:
Israel must invest heavily in targeting the members of the international public who are uninterested and uninformed. Providing these demographics with opportunities to connect with Israel is a critical mission for the country. A recent Pew Research Center study (March 21, 2024) concluded that they accounted for 70% of Americans....
First, the humanizing of brand “Israel” by broadening the scope of the country’s visibility, allowing the 70% to become familiar with the human face of the Israeli people. A robust national cyber force will be needed.
Israel must leave the uniform-wearing IDF officers out of the effort to boost its reputation. In many quarters of the Western world, especially among American liberals, military force is illegitimate (police force, too). The IDF’s dominance in the realm of PR (messaging predominantly designed for domestic consumption) is one of Israel’s main reputational obstacles.
First, the humanizing of brand “Israel” by broadening the scope of the country’s visibility, allowing the 70% to become familiar with the human face of the Israeli people. A robust national cyber force will be needed.
Israel must leave the uniform-wearing IDF officers out of the effort to boost its reputation. In many quarters of the Western world, especially among American liberals, military force is illegitimate (police force, too). The IDF’s dominance in the realm of PR (messaging predominantly designed for domestic consumption) is one of Israel’s main reputational obstacles.
Edited by s1962a on Monday 29th April 17:29
andymadmak said:
Just so you're aware, here's a summary of what I have posted on resolving the Israel Palestine situation over the past 6 months:
1. Netanyahu has to go. He is an obstacle to peace
2. There should be a ceasefire
3. The hostages should be released, all of them, immediately.
4. There should be a 2 state solution
5. Hamas should not speak for the Palestinians (just as Netanyahu should not be speaking for Israel) - Who will speak for Palestinians?
6. An international force should be deployed to police the peace
7. Action should be taken to immediately stop the aggressive settler actions in the West Bank
8. Illegal Settlements in the WB should be removed and the settlers told to return to Israel
9. Crimes by settlers against Palestinians should be investigated and punished appropriately
10 Gaza should be rebuilt through a massive international effort, an effort that must include the Israelis so as to begin the bridge building process between the peoples that is necessary for lasting peace
11. A long term plan should be put in place that would ultimately give Palestinians control over their own borders - it won't happen anytime soon but it needs to be seen to be possible.
12. Crimes by Israeli soldiers should be investigated properly, and where guilt is proven an appropriate punishment should be handed down.
13. Hamas should remain as a proscribed terrorist organisation until it removes all references, hints or leanings towards the destruction of Israel and the eradication of all Jews.
14. Hamas terrorists that are identified as having committed crimes should face courts for their actions. If found guilty and appropriate punishment should be handed down.
15. There can be no "right of return" discussions because in reality it would never be reciprocal.
I've been reading the thread but haven't wanted to take part because it seems to be largely a barrage of diametrically opposed rhetoric, insults and insinuations. 1. Netanyahu has to go. He is an obstacle to peace
2. There should be a ceasefire
3. The hostages should be released, all of them, immediately.
4. There should be a 2 state solution
5. Hamas should not speak for the Palestinians (just as Netanyahu should not be speaking for Israel) - Who will speak for Palestinians?
6. An international force should be deployed to police the peace
7. Action should be taken to immediately stop the aggressive settler actions in the West Bank
8. Illegal Settlements in the WB should be removed and the settlers told to return to Israel
9. Crimes by settlers against Palestinians should be investigated and punished appropriately
10 Gaza should be rebuilt through a massive international effort, an effort that must include the Israelis so as to begin the bridge building process between the peoples that is necessary for lasting peace
11. A long term plan should be put in place that would ultimately give Palestinians control over their own borders - it won't happen anytime soon but it needs to be seen to be possible.
12. Crimes by Israeli soldiers should be investigated properly, and where guilt is proven an appropriate punishment should be handed down.
13. Hamas should remain as a proscribed terrorist organisation until it removes all references, hints or leanings towards the destruction of Israel and the eradication of all Jews.
14. Hamas terrorists that are identified as having committed crimes should face courts for their actions. If found guilty and appropriate punishment should be handed down.
15. There can be no "right of return" discussions because in reality it would never be reciprocal.
I don't feel the nature of your posts generally tallies with the sentiment you suggest in your list and I don't like many of the things you've posted but I have to say I agree pretty much entirely with that list.
Point 15 is probably the most debatable though..................
An opinion piece, but from someone who knows their stuff:
https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-st...
Its not "genocide". Not even close
https://www.newsweek.com/israel-has-created-new-st...
Its not "genocide". Not even close
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68920...
New peace offer from Israel
“Hamas has before it a proposal that is extraordinarily, extraordinarily generous, on the part of Israel. And in this moment, the only thing standing between the people of Gaza and a ceasefire is Hamas," he said.” (Blinken)
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff