Policing of pro Palestinian marches

[Countdown]

768 said:

Countdown said:

Oliver Hardy said:

So what was he going to do?

I'm pretty sure he was hoping somebody would punch him in the mouth so he could shout "ANTI-SEMITE!!!"

And if that had happened it would have been his fault?

If that's what his intention had been then yes, 100% his fault.

[Scrimpton]

Vanden Saab said:

g4ry13 said:

Some heavy-handed policing going on today. I guess that's the difference when dealing with a mostly caucasian gathering.

Are they not supposed to take videos and arrest them later?

Hopefully there was nobody of a dusky hue wandering about all blatant like

[768]

Streuth.

[Countdown]

768 said:

Streuth.

if your intention is to provoke a fight, and you end up provoking a fight, would you say you were blameless? And do you think the Police are at fault for trying to stop you from provoking a fight?

[Who_Goes_Blue]

Countdown said:

768 said:

Streuth.

if your intention is to provoke a fight, and you end up provoking a fight, would you say you were blameless? And do you think the Police are at fault for trying to stop you from provoking a fight?

Remind us how he is provoking a fight?

[wisbech]

Oliver Hardy said:

So this weeks protest against the Chinese will take place and next weeks protest and the week later?

When was the last protest march against the Chinese?

When was there a protest on the scale of the anti Israel protest against the russians if there ever was one?

Not sure your point? Feel free to start a protest march against the Chinese if it is something you feel strongly about.

[Oliver Hardy]

wisbech said:

Oliver Hardy said:

So this weeks protest against the Chinese will take place and next weeks protest and the week later?

When was the last protest march against the Chinese?

When was there a protest on the scale of the anti Israel protest against the russians if there ever was one?

Not sure your point? Feel free to start a protest march against the Chinese if it is something you feel strongly about.

My point is there are protests against Israel but non against Russia, China...

[swisstoni]

wisbech said:

Oliver Hardy said:

So this weeks protest against the Chinese will take place and next weeks protest and the week later?

When was the last protest march against the Chinese?

When was there a protest on the scale of the anti Israel protest against the russians if there ever was one?

Not sure your point? Feel free to start a protest march against the Chinese if it is something you feel strongly about.

What, like thousands of Muslims being enslaved and interned by them. Yeah, fair point, who'd get wound up about that?

[White-Noise]

Oliver Hardy said:

wisbech said:

Oliver Hardy said:

So this weeks protest against the Chinese will take place and next weeks protest and the week later?

When was the last protest march against the Chinese?

When was there a protest on the scale of the anti Israel protest against the russians if there ever was one?

Not sure your point? Feel free to start a protest march against the Chinese if it is something you feel strongly about.

My point is there are protests against Israel but non against Russia, China...

And what is the point of that point? Folks go out when they feel the need, are passionate etc etc. For all I know there are demonstrations going on maybe it's just not covered by the main media.

This guy appears to have a couple of body guards with him it wasn't an afternoon stroll for a pint of milk.

I do wonder what else is going on with this guy. If you have a nose round companies house there are a few charities, the one we have heard of to my totally untrained eye appeared to have not much going through it but others with tens of millions. Not saying it is dodgy at all, but he definitely has an agenda and he's shining a big spotlight on himself.

[isaldiri]

swisstoni said:

wisbech said:

Oliver Hardy said:

So this weeks protest against the Chinese will take place and next weeks protest and the week later?

When was the last protest march against the Chinese?

When was there a protest on the scale of the anti Israel protest against the russians if there ever was one?

Not sure your point? Feel free to start a protest march against the Chinese if it is something you feel strongly about.

What, like thousands of Muslims being enslaved and interned by them. Yeah, fair point, who'd get wound up about that?

Exactly. Israel should totally be able to do the same to the palestinians after all. Anyone saying they shouldn't is clearly racist/anti-semitic right?

[rohrl]

Who_Goes_Blue said:

Countdown said:

768 said:

Streuth.

if your intention is to provoke a fight, and you end up provoking a fight, would you say you were blameless? And do you think the Police are at fault for trying to stop you from provoking a fight?

Remind us how he is provoking a fight?

His entire intent is to provoke a fight, or at the very least to provoke antisemitic abuse, because he wants the marches banned, because he is a supporter of Netanyahu and the Israeli government. This is what the police officer who was talking to him meant when he said that he was being disingenuous in his claim just to want to cross the road.

[rohrl]

Oliver Hardy said:

wisbech said:

Oliver Hardy said:

So this weeks protest against the Chinese will take place and next weeks protest and the week later?

When was the last protest march against the Chinese?

When was there a protest on the scale of the anti Israel protest against the russians if there ever was one?

Not sure your point? Feel free to start a protest march against the Chinese if it is something you feel strongly about.

My point is there are protests against Israel but non against Russia, China...

And that is pure whataboutism. When did you last organise or go on a March to protest against Russia or China or anyone else?

[768]

Countdown said:

768 said:

Streuth.

if your intention is to provoke a fight, and you end up provoking a fight, would you say you were blameless? And do you think the Police are at fault for trying to stop you from provoking a fight?

If you manage to provoke a fight by being a Jew going for a walk, you're certainly not 100% to blame no matter how much you intend to find someone who considers that provocation.

[Countdown]

768 said:

If you manage to provoke a fight by being a Jew going for a walk, you're certainly not 100% to blame no matter how much you intend to find someone who considers that provocation.

There are plenty of Jews walking as part of those marches that aren’t provoking fights. That would suggest it’s being a dick rather than being a Jew which is the issue (and there appears to be plenty of evidence that he’s a dick)

[Super Sonic]

donkmeister said:

Super Sonic said:

donkmeister said:

So you agree that being against Islam and banning headscarves is fine because religion and clothing are both choices? Well I'd vote for you but I don't think the Hamas/Palestine supporters who totally definitely don't hate people for being Jewish would agree.

ETA just to be clear, I want all religion to ps off out of my country. But I'll settle for "it's a private matter you do in your own home".

Edited by donkmeister on Tuesday 23 April 09:46

Maybe read what I put, and don't put words in my mouth.

Just for clarity, this was the bit I was referring to:

Super Sonic said:

Gideon wasn't born wearing a hat. He chose to wear his kippah.

[[Bit different to what you attributed to me about "being against Islam and banning headscarves..." isn't it?]]


I think that's equivalent to my view of "there should be no overt displays of religion" (unless of course you are taking the "look how she was dressed, she was asking for it" school of thought.).


[[Again, your words, not mine.
You are entitled to your opinions. You are not, however, entitled to attribute your opinions to me.]]

However, many people out there who are protesting against Israel (and totally not antisemites finding the latest excuse) would disagree.

[anonymoususer]

I think we should arrange a charity boxing match between Countdown and this Gideon whatever
Gideon would no doubt rig it with a lookalikey and win then when discovered go quiet for the next few days.

[donkmeister]

Supersonic, the quoting has all gone a bit catawumpus there, but you appear to be saying he shouldn't have been walking there whilst looking Jewish. To me that comes across like "wearing a loud shirt in a built up area during the hours of darkness" and "being in possession of thick lips and curly hair".

If he can't walk around London in a yamaka without other people getting angry and potentially violent (which appears to have been the officers concern) then there is something very wrong. Much as I absolutely do not want religion to be anything beyond an amusing "you'll never guess what people used to believe" history lesson, I also absolutely do not think anyone should be in danger for belonging to one group or not belonging to another.

If I've got your viewpoint wrong, tell us what your viewpoint actually is because it's not coming through.

[Super Sonic]

donkmeister said:

Supersonic, the quoting has all gone a bit catawumpus there, but you appear to be saying he shouldn't have been walking there whilst looking Jewish. To me that comes across like "wearing a loud shirt in a built up area during the hours of darkness" and "being in possession of thick lips and curly hair".

If he can't walk around London in a yamaka without other people getting angry and potentially violent (which appears to have been the officers concern) then there is something very wrong. Much as I absolutely do not want religion to be anything beyond an amusing "you'll never guess what people used to believe" history lesson, I also absolutely do not think anyone should be in danger for belonging to one group or not belonging to another.

If I've got your viewpoint wrong, tell us what your viewpoint actually is because it's not coming through.

Maybe it would help if you didn't try to imply I said things I didn't say.
Wearing a loud shirt is a choice. Possession of thick lips and curly hair isn't.
See the difference?
He can walk around London wearing what he wants. He didn't want to walk around London though, did he? He wanted to cross a protest march with the intention of causing a situation. The policeman may have chosen his words badly, but his intention was to prevent a situation arising.
The law isn't always about actions per se, it is also about intentions.
With rights come responsibilities. The right to go where you want, wearing what you want, has to be balanced by the responsibility not to deliberately incite hatred and violence.
And your sexist comment was a false equivalence and a cheap shot.

[rscott]

donkmeister said:

Supersonic, the quoting has all gone a bit catawumpus there, but you appear to be saying he shouldn't have been walking there whilst looking Jewish. To me that comes across like "wearing a loud shirt in a built up area during the hours of darkness" and "being in possession of thick lips and curly hair".

If he can't walk around London in a yamaka without other people getting angry and potentially violent (which appears to have been the officers concern) then there is something very wrong. Much as I absolutely do not want religion to be anything beyond an amusing "you'll never guess what people used to believe" history lesson, I also absolutely do not think anyone should be in danger for belonging to one group or not belonging to another.

If I've got your viewpoint wrong, tell us what your viewpoint actually is because it's not coming through.

The officer had reports from a plain clothes colleague that Gideon was going in and out of the edge of the protest and saw him step off the pavement, into the road to walk against the march.
He'd also been seen hanging around the area well before the march came through, so wasn't just walking past.

[Timothy Bucktu]

rscott said:

donkmeister said:

Supersonic, the quoting has all gone a bit catawumpus there, but you appear to be saying he shouldn't have been walking there whilst looking Jewish. To me that comes across like "wearing a loud shirt in a built up area during the hours of darkness" and "being in possession of thick lips and curly hair".

If he can't walk around London in a yamaka without other people getting angry and potentially violent (which appears to have been the officers concern) then there is something very wrong. Much as I absolutely do not want religion to be anything beyond an amusing "you'll never guess what people used to believe" history lesson, I also absolutely do not think anyone should be in danger for belonging to one group or not belonging to another.

If I've got your viewpoint wrong, tell us what your viewpoint actually is because it's not coming through.

The officer had reports from a plain clothes colleague that Gideon was going in and out of the edge of the protest and saw him step off the pavement, into the road to walk against the march.
He'd also been seen hanging around the area well before the march came through, so wasn't just walking past.

...and? It's a free country...isn't it?