Policing of pro Palestinian marches

[Vanden Saab]

Countdown said:

Vanden Saab said:

John Mann is an interesting character to be talking about anti-semitism training bearing in mind he owns a antisemitism training company.

Isn't that specifically why he's been appointed as the Antisemitism Tsar? Wouldn't it be logical to have somebody in that role who is an expert on the subject?

Would you think the same if the Stobbart CEO was the transport Tsar and was slagging off rival transport companies?

[Countdown]

Vanden Saab said:

Countdown said:

Vanden Saab said:

John Mann is an interesting character to be talking about anti-semitism training bearing in mind he owns a antisemitism training company.

Isn't that specifically why he's been appointed as the Antisemitism Tsar? Wouldn't it be logical to have somebody in that role who is an expert on the subject?

Would you think the same if the Stobbart CEO was the transport Tsar and was slagging off rival transport companies?

I think I would. In this situation it's not as if Mann is tendering for the same piece of work so they're not "rivals" and there's no financial or other incentive for him to "slag" Gideon off unfairly. But given that they operate in the same sphere he's probably got a better understanding of Falter than most ordinary people will have.

[rscott]

Solocle said:

I have cancelled Saturday’s walk of defiance in central London. Here’s why - Gideon Falter in the Jewish Chronicle

I didn't know Falter had changed career - he's pretty good at writing fantasy fiction, it seems.

[Ridgemont]

rscott said:

Solocle said:

I have cancelled Saturday’s walk of defiance in central London. Here’s why - Gideon Falter in the Jewish Chronicle

I didn't know Falter had changed career - he's pretty good at writing fantasy fiction, it seems.

TBH I thought he was quite reasoned in that article: he recognised that the met officers he had encountered were not unreasonable. He has a problem with the policy of allowing openly anti semitic marchers full rein, as a matter of trying to keep public order under control for months, as flawed.

As many of us have been saying on this thread over and over again.

We get the police have a problem. The issue is that many of the organisers of the marches should have been banned along time ago and that they aren’t is exacerbating the problem. It isn’t just now banned Hizb ut-Tahrir. There are a large number of organisations attempting to incite terrror. From a number of significant mosques in especially east London.

[williamp]

Even the Met are now (finally) acknowledging these hate marches are causing fear ajd uncer5ainty amongst Jewish people

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13355957/...

Also note "..., 415 arrests have been made during the protests - including 193 for antisemitic offences and 15 terrorism arrests.."

Yet these are peaceful protests some on here support and have even joined.

[Greendubber]

williamp said:

Even the Met are now (finally) acknowledging these hate marches are causing fear ajd uncer5ainty amongst Jewish people

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13355957/...

Also note "..., 415 arrests have been made during the protests - including 193 for antisemitic offences and 15 terrorism arrests.."

Yet these are peaceful protests some on here support and have even joined.

Or on the other hand how many thousands of people have been protesting?

If you can be bothered to think about how many people actually attend versus how many are there causing issues I think you'll see it's a very small minority, we can't simply ban protest based on the behaviour of a very few that attend.

I support anyone's right to protest peacefully, deal with the trouble makers but why ban it for everyone?

Should we ban local football derby games as a small percentage of the crowd want to fight? How about the Notting Hill Carnival, plenty of crime there but also the majority of the attendees are only there for a good time.

[williamp]

Nobody has mentionned banning the marches, but maybe we shohld recognise them as hate marches???

[dudleybloke]

Or surround them with riot police like what happens whenever the edl lot protest.
It's equality after all.

[Solocle]

Greendubber said:

Or on the other hand how many thousands of people have been protesting?

If you can be bothered to think about how many people actually attend versus how many are there causing issues I think you'll see it's a very small minority, we can't simply ban protest based on the behaviour of a very few that attend.

I support anyone's right to protest peacefully, deal with the trouble makers but why ban it for everyone?

Should we ban local football derby games as a small percentage of the crowd want to fight? How about the Notting Hill Carnival, plenty of crime there but also the majority of the attendees are only there for a good time.

At the same time for every arrest there will be more offences, and then substantially more conduct yet that doesn't cross the line into criminality, but will make most Jewish people nearby deeply uncomfortable, and then there's the potential for escalation.

It's not a black and white contrast between banning the protests entirely and allowing them relatively free reign.

A spectrum of conditions could be imposed on the protests, where they're currently a relatively light touch imo.

[MrJuice]

williamp said:

Nobody has mentionned banning the marches, but maybe we shohld recognise them as hate marches???

What percentage of British Jewry should we consider morally repugnant based on the actions of one Gideon Falter?

Fwiw, I would say Gideon alone should be maligned for his actions and the rest of British Jewry left out of it.

But if we are tainting whole groups with the same brush strokes, do let me know.

[Greendubber]

Solocle said:

Greendubber said:

Or on the other hand how many thousands of people have been protesting?

If you can be bothered to think about how many people actually attend versus how many are there causing issues I think you'll see it's a very small minority, we can't simply ban protest based on the behaviour of a very few that attend.

I support anyone's right to protest peacefully, deal with the trouble makers but why ban it for everyone?

Should we ban local football derby games as a small percentage of the crowd want to fight? How about the Notting Hill Carnival, plenty of crime there but also the majority of the attendees are only there for a good time.

At the same time for every arrest there will be more offences, and then substantially more conduct yet that doesn't cross the line into criminality, but will make most Jewish people nearby deeply uncomfortable, and then there's the potential for escalation.

It's not a black and white contrast between banning the protests entirely and allowing them relatively free reign.

A spectrum of conditions could be imposed on the protests, where they're currently a relatively light touch imo.

Conditions are already imposed so no one's allowing anyone a relatively free reign and if you look at the law surrounding protest it actually allows protest to shock and offend, so what next?

[Biker 1]

How many marches have been carried out since October? Must be getting on for 30-odd every Saturday in London. Apart from intimidating our Jewish population & costing £millions in policing, what exactly has been achieved?
Ceasefire: nope
2 states: nope
Can't the participants see the utter futility of it all?

[Greendubber]

Biker 1 said:

How many marches have been carried out since October? Must be getting on for 30-odd every Saturday in London. Apart from intimidating our Jewish population & costing £millions in policing, what exactly has been achieved?
Ceasefire: nope
2 states: nope
Can't the participants see the utter futility of it all?

Not much, probably quite a bit of negativity towards their cause but they can still shout at the top of their lungs if they so wish.

Unfortunately society just has to stomach it.

[Mojooo]

Made the Zionists know the majority of us dislike them.

[Vanden Saab]

Mojooo said:

Made the Zionists know the majority of us dislike them.

What majority is that? A few thousand antisemitic nutters in London?

[Oliver Hardy]

Greendubber said:

Biker 1 said:

How many marches have been carried out since October? Must be getting on for 30-odd every Saturday in London. Apart from intimidating our Jewish population & costing £millions in policing, what exactly has been achieved?
Ceasefire: nope
2 states: nope
Can't the participants see the utter futility of it all?

Not much, probably quite a bit of negativity towards their cause but they can still shout at the top of their lungs if they so wish.

Unfortunately society just has to stomach it.

So Gideon and the guy holding up the Hamas are terrorist sign are perfectly in their rights.

[Greendubber]

Oliver Hardy said:

Greendubber said:

Biker 1 said:

How many marches have been carried out since October? Must be getting on for 30-odd every Saturday in London. Apart from intimidating our Jewish population & costing £millions in policing, what exactly has been achieved?
Ceasefire: nope
2 states: nope
Can't the participants see the utter futility of it all?

Not much, probably quite a bit of negativity towards their cause but they can still shout at the top of their lungs if they so wish.

Unfortunately society just has to stomach it.

So Gideon and the guy holding up the Hamas are terrorist sign are perfectly in their rights.

Only up until the point there's likely to be a breach of the peace, which is why as mentioned numerous times before the police can step in.

[Biker 1]

Mojooo said:

Made the Zionists know the majority of us dislike them.

Who is 'us'?? Even if there was a majority in the UK that dislikes Jews, so what? You really believe the Israeli government will take any notice of the marches?
Oh, & I recommend looking up the actual meaning of Zionism & what the founding fathers were trying to achieve. It has absolutely nothing to do with the mad religious zealots occupying certain parts of Judea & Samaria, & even less to do with gaza

[vetrof]

Vanden Saab said:

Mojooo said:

Made the Zionists know the majority of us dislike them.

What majority is that? A few thousand antisemitic nutters in London?

I think the majority don’t really give a st one way or the other. Most of us just shrug & say ‘same old, same old’.

Innocent people being killed is hardly unique to this conflict.

[bitchstewie]

I'm going to show my ignorance now but is there a simple accepted definition of what a "Zionist" is please?

I hear the term often and it almost always seems intended as a pejorative.