Thames Water- Finished?
Discussion
I would nationalise both energy production and water tomorrow were I dictator of Airstrip One, f ck the cost. I mean, you might as well. Privatisation of critical infrastructure like this has brought sod all except asset stripping and failure. This is usually the point where someone tells me it took 18 years to get a beige telephone in 1973 but the world has moved on since then and many nationalised industries across Europe run pretty well.
DaveCWK said:
Looking at who owns Thames Water (Abu Dhabi / Chinese sovereign wealth funds, Canadian investment companies etc), is there any possible way that these companies can be made to lose/be left holding the bag? In a 'sorry, your investment in Thames Water failed, your money is now gone' kind of way.
Because that seems the right thing to do to me.
Regulate it properly to the existing rules, punitive fines for non-emergency emergency discharges. If it goes pop because it's 'suddenly' unprofitable that's terribly sad and the shareholders get nowt.Because that seems the right thing to do to me.
CraigyMc said:
simon_harris said:
we should be demanding repayment of dividends from shareholders. Isn't the point that you get to take money out when times are good - put need to put back in when times are not...
Macquarie is the firm that took all the dividends out, then divested their shareholding in 2017.The owners since 2017 haven't had dividends.
Who do you intend to demand repayment from?
https://twitter.com/WindrushWasp/status/1773278353...
If the table is correct, over £100 million was taken out between 2018 and 2021. Is the thread on Twitter correct?
DaveCWK said:
Looking at who owns Thames Water (Abu Dhabi / Chinese sovereign wealth funds, Canadian investment companies etc), is there any possible way that these companies can be made to lose/be left holding the bag? In a 'sorry, your investment in Thames Water failed, your money is now gone' kind of way.
Because that seems the right thing to do to me.
More than half of Thames water is owned by two pension providers who didn't cause this problem.Because that seems the right thing to do to me.
Thames Water has an “interesting” structure, where the operating co. pays dividends to the company that manages its finances I believe.
The WASP people tell a sobering tale. For years they were sending incredibly damning reports to various govt. ministers.
Absolutely nothing happened, until the bad news got traction in the National press.
The WASP people tell a sobering tale. For years they were sending incredibly damning reports to various govt. ministers.
Absolutely nothing happened, until the bad news got traction in the National press.
vaud said:
Blanket statements like "the rest of Europe" aren't very helpful as plenty of other counties have significant issues with state and non-state run infrastructure assets.
Take French rural railways, most of the German railway system (nothing like it used to be), Spanish water system, etc. We have issues, but so do many other countries.
Well I live 50% of the time in rural France and my SNCF regional rail service is superb. Runs super reliably with stations and trains properly staffed. None of the rubbish you get in the UK. Also runs post-Covid with a small operating profit. Britain is just broken. Take French rural railways, most of the German railway system (nothing like it used to be), Spanish water system, etc. We have issues, but so do many other countries.
Harpoon said:
CraigyMc said:
simon_harris said:
we should be demanding repayment of dividends from shareholders. Isn't the point that you get to take money out when times are good - put need to put back in when times are not...
Macquarie is the firm that took all the dividends out, then divested their shareholding in 2017.The owners since 2017 haven't had dividends.
Who do you intend to demand repayment from?
https://twitter.com/WindrushWasp/status/1773278353...
If the table is correct, over £100 million was taken out between 2018 and 2021. Is the thread on Twitter correct?
Kemble is the holding company for thames water, it's this which the pension funds own. Kemble hasn't paid out any dividends since 2017 so my point stands.
ETA: this isn't secret -- https://www.thameswater.co.uk/about-us/governance/...
Edited by CraigyMc on Thursday 28th March 14:08
Bonefish Blues said:
Why has no criminal charges been brought against the old CEO?Hugo Stiglitz said:
Bonefish Blues said:
Why has no criminal charges been brought against the old CEO?Tankrizzo said:
I would nationalise both energy production and water tomorrow were I dictator of Airstrip One, f ck the cost. I mean, you might as well. Privatisation of critical infrastructure like this has brought sod all except asset stripping and failure. This is usually the point where someone tells me it took 18 years to get a beige telephone in 1973 but the world has moved on since then and many nationalised industries across Europe run pretty well.
Same here - along with the rail networkThere is an investigation if any laws # have been broken, what if they have been, the company will get fined a few million piunds.
What needs to happen is that the CEOs of these and other big companies need to be held responsible. Currently the top managers get paid millions, are not accountable and if they fail get paid millions anyway.
What needs to happen is that the CEOs of these and other big companies need to be held responsible. Currently the top managers get paid millions, are not accountable and if they fail get paid millions anyway.
smn159 said:
Tankrizzo said:
I would nationalise both energy production and water tomorrow were I dictator of Airstrip One, f ck the cost. I mean, you might as well. Privatisation of critical infrastructure like this has brought sod all except asset stripping and failure. This is usually the point where someone tells me it took 18 years to get a beige telephone in 1973 but the world has moved on since then and many nationalised industries across Europe run pretty well.
Same here - along with the rail networkS600BSB said:
smn159 said:
Tankrizzo said:
I would nationalise both energy production and water tomorrow were I dictator of Airstrip One, f ck the cost. I mean, you might as well. Privatisation of critical infrastructure like this has brought sod all except asset stripping and failure. This is usually the point where someone tells me it took 18 years to get a beige telephone in 1973 but the world has moved on since then and many nationalised industries across Europe run pretty well.
Same here - along with the rail network
tty level.
S600BSB said:
Well I live 50% of the time in rural France and my SNCF regional rail service is superb. Runs super reliably with stations and trains properly staffed. None of the rubbish you get in the UK. Also runs post-Covid with a small operating profit. Britain is just broken.
SNCF are also €24bn in debt...Having to endure this shower of crap is frustrating. Some continuous leaks for many, many months and terrible CS. I did email them once as we were all under usage restrictions and hundreds of gallons per day were happily running down a local road. A bunch of reasons why not followed obviously. Not surprised at all hearing the gigantic stshow within senior management, they make the NHS look effective.
tshow within senior management, they make the NHS look effective. carlo996 said:
Having to endure this shower of crap is frustrating. Some continuous leaks for many, many months and terrible CS. I did email them once as we were all under usage restrictions and hundreds of gallons per day were happily running down a local road. A bunch of reasons why not followed obviously. Not surprised at all hearing the gigantic stshow within senior management, they make the NHS look effective.
Why should they care when it's not their money.tshow within senior management, they make the NHS look effective. carlo996 said:
Having to endure this shower of crap is frustrating. Some continuous leaks for many, many months and terrible CS. I did email them once as we were all under usage restrictions and hundreds of gallons per day were happily running down a local road. A bunch of reasons why not followed obviously. Not surprised at all hearing the gigantic stshow within senior management, they make the NHS look effective.
So you're saying you're in favour of not privatising this and that the NHS which is still mostly nationalised, is more effective?tshow within senior management, they make the NHS look effective. Asking for future requoting opportunities.
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