Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
President Merkin said:
snuffy said:
I meant to type "And I think everyone knows why that is."
I know, I went to university, In the 1990's. 
Still waiting for VS to piss all over my smarts. I suspect he's running up some university of life chunter while the rest of take in Dagnir's tour of Britain First sloganing.
Dagnir said:
Amazing. You really think I'm that stupid? That you're so intellectually superior?
Bless your little cottons...
You don't get to invent stuff and then demand people defend themselves from it.
Who the devil do you think you are?
If you want to discuss my post in the full context, then please do.
Ok, you stated that British men have possibly more right to vote than anyone else, except soldiers (odd that you omit aircrew and navy, but there we go).Bless your little cottons...
You don't get to invent stuff and then demand people defend themselves from it.
Who the devil do you think you are?
If you want to discuss my post in the full context, then please do.
Are you suggesting that there are tiers of rights, with soldiers at the top, followed by British men, and then everyone else?
Because if that’s not the case you have every opportunity to explain what you did mean.
You typed those words, I didn’t attribute them to you.
President Merkin said:
I know, I went to university, In the 1990's.
Still waiting for VS to piss all over my smarts. I suspect he's running up some university of life chunter while the rest of take in Dagnir's tour of Britain First sloganing.
Another one. This is gold.Still waiting for VS to piss all over my smarts. I suspect he's running up some university of life chunter while the rest of take in Dagnir's tour of Britain First sloganing.
Boasts about their intellect (I think?) And then resorts to irrelevant ad homs.
How do you people not see it?!
TTwiggy said:
Ok, you stated that British men have possibly more right to vote than anyone else, except soldiers (odd that you omit aircrew and navy, but there we go).
Are you suggesting that there are tiers of rights, with soldiers at the top, followed by British men, and then everyone else?
Because if that’s not the case you have every opportunity to explain what you did mean.
You typed those words, I didn’t attribute them to you.
You missed the context again.Are you suggesting that there are tiers of rights, with soldiers at the top, followed by British men, and then everyone else?
Because if that’s not the case you have every opportunity to explain what you did mean.
You typed those words, I didn’t attribute them to you.
One more try!
President Merkin said:
snuffy said:
I meant to type "And I think everyone knows why that is."
I know, I went to university, In the 1990's. Still waiting for VS to piss all over my smarts. I suspect he's running up some university of life chunter while the rest of take in Dagnir's tour of Britain First sloganing.
Vanden Saab said:
President Merkin said:
snuffy said:
I meant to type "And I think everyone knows why that is."
I know, I went to university, In the 1990's. Still waiting for VS to piss all over my smarts. I suspect he's running up some university of life chunter while the rest of take in Dagnir's tour of Britain First sloganing.
Dagnir said:
Another one. This is gold.
Boasts about their intellect (I think?) And then resorts to irrelevant ad homs.
How do you people not see it?!
Supposing you are possesed of a decent intellect, you would not be proud of that? Is that your position?Boasts about their intellect (I think?) And then resorts to irrelevant ad homs.
How do you people not see it?!
And as for ad homs, which I think is related to me suggesting you are recycling Britain First tropes, then you're going to have to stand this up:
Dagnir said:
...Actual British men that have as much and possibly more right to vote than anyone except soldiers?
Where to you start with this? You would restrict the franchise to men whom you consider British but make them queue up behind soldiers? And why? Where do women fit into this? 2nd generation immigrants? Naturalised foreigners? If you are intent on punting half baked race based discriminatory theories, then you either have to account for yourself or accept that others pointing out the intellectual & moral deficiencies in your thinking have a point. Over to you Daggers.
Vanden Saab said:
President Merkin said:
snuffy said:
I meant to type "And I think everyone knows why that is."
I know, I went to university, In the 1990's. Still waiting for VS to piss all over my smarts. I suspect he's running up some university of life chunter while the rest of take in Dagnir's tour of Britain First sloganing.
Dagnir said:
Being condescending and moaning that native Brits have a different opinion to you....
The salt of the earth people that literally built the country and keep it running?
Actual British men that have as much and possibly more right to vote than anyone except soldiers?
You just had to take the chance to denigrate them eh? How dare they be white and male and love their country?!
Really demonstrates how warped some progressive/Intersectional views are.
...and don't deny the tone of your post, it's plain for all to see.
Ok, here’s your full post.The salt of the earth people that literally built the country and keep it running?
Actual British men that have as much and possibly more right to vote than anyone except soldiers?
You just had to take the chance to denigrate them eh? How dare they be white and male and love their country?!
Really demonstrates how warped some progressive/Intersectional views are.
...and don't deny the tone of your post, it's plain for all to see.
The beginning and end is just you taking a personal angle with a different poster, so it’s not really for me to respond to that.
That leaves us with the ‘salt of the earth people who built the country’ and British men having possibly more right to a vote.
I tend to disagree with the notion that anyone in their 60s ‘built this country’, but it’s moot at best.
So, back to them having ‘possibly more right’ to a vote? Because that does rather stand out as the strongest clear opinion in your post.
If I (a British man) we’re having a political argument with, say, a woman, and I told her I had as much - and possibly more - right to vote than she did, do you think she’d let that slide?
bad company said:
Vanden Saab said:
smn159 said:
Vanden Saab said:
The work was done on this, the two groups planning to vote Reform are disillusioned tories and those who defected from Labour in the last few years. I would add to that those who do not normally vote but voted for Brexit but have no evidence of this past personal anecdote.
Well the Blackpool South by-election is considered to be the best chance for Reform to gain an MP, with it being said that if they can't win there they probably can't win anywhere.The constituency is described as having an unusually high proportion of white, male, poorly educated over 60's.
I hope the Reform candidate is elected. At least it’ll a few pompous t***s here & elsewhere something to think about.
White, working class males being able to think for themselves. Who’d have thought it?
In analysis of Brexit voting patterns there, the biggest single motivator for voting Leave was low educational attainment...
1. With all other things being equal, people who left school with GCSEs or below were 30% more likely to vote Leave than those with A levels or above.
2. Age was the second highest factor, with those aged over 65 20% more likely to vote Leave than those aged 25.
3. Oddly, income was only third, with households on less than £20k only 10% more likely to vote leave than those on £60k or more.
4. In addition to the individual motivators, in low-skilled areas all demographics were more likely to vote Leave than their peers in high-skilled areas.
5. Gender is less of an issue, but even so, the Leave vote was 55/45 for men and 49/51 for women.
There's nothing sanctimonious, conceited or judgemental in any of that. Those are just observed facts, and I don't think there's anything sanctimonious or conceited in saying that they are likely good indicators of how satisfied someone is likely to be with their lot in life. It's certainly not sanctimonious or conceited to suggest that people are more likely to vote for any sort of change if they're less satisfied with their lives than those who are more satisfied?
Of course not everyone who votes Reform will fit precisely the same demographics as people who voted Leave, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest there will be a reasonably close correlation? As such, if Blackpool South does have an unusually high proportion of older, poorer, less educated men, then it's reasonable to suggest that it's more likely to vote Reform, surely?
President Merkin said:
Dagnir said:
Another one. This is gold.
Boasts about their intellect (I think?) And then resorts to irrelevant ad homs.
How do you people not see it?!
Supposing you are possesed of a decent intellect, you would not be proud of that? Is that your position?Boasts about their intellect (I think?) And then resorts to irrelevant ad homs.
How do you people not see it?!
And as for ad homs, which I think is related to me suggesting you are recycling Britain First tropes, then you're going to have to stand this up:
Dagnir said:
...Actual British men that have as much and possibly more right to vote than anyone except soldiers?
Where to you start with this? You would restrict the franchise to men whom you consider British but make them queue up behind soldiers? And why? Where do women fit into this? 2nd generation immigrants? Naturalised foreigners? If you are intent on punting half baked race based discriminatory theories, then you either have to account for yourself or accept that others pointing out the intellectual & moral deficiencies in your thinking have a point. Over to you Daggers.
My post was a direct response to someone to appeared to have a problem that British, white, working class men were able to vote.
I didn't bring up race, I didn't bring up sex.....that was the intersectional fool I was responding to. You could even say I was defending them from the light racist connotations of the previous post (why else mention their race when denigrating them?)
Context matters.
However, instead of engaging with the point I was making, in the context it was made, you've both seen "white men" + "right to vote" and jumped off the deep end, clutching pearls (to keep things PH...).
Vanden Saab said:
smn159 said:
bad company said:
Vanden Saab said:
smn159 said:
Vanden Saab said:
The work was done on this, the two groups planning to vote Reform are disillusioned tories and those who defected from Labour in the last few years. I would add to that those who do not normally vote but voted for Brexit but have no evidence of this past personal anecdote.
Well the Blackpool South by-election is considered to be the best chance for Reform to gain an MP, with it being said that if they can't win there they probably can't win anywhere.The constituency is described as having an unusually high proportion of white, male, poorly educated over 60's.
ks. You know that but keep repeating it. Put a 60 year old up against a 21 year old in a basic education test and the 60 year old will piss all over your university student. Only 10% of people went to university in the 70s compared to today it is a really poor marker of education level.In the census and elsewhere, educational attainment is recorded based on GCSE or below, A level, bachelors degree and postgraduate qualifications.
A 60yr old who left school with a handful of CSEs may well have more common sense than a 25yr old PhD, but when it comes to analysis based on population demographics, they're still going to be viewed as a person with GCSE or below qualifications.
That may not be fair, but what else do you expect people to use instead? There are of course metrics for age, wealth, marital status, property ownership and a host of others besides, but educational attainment will always be one of them.
Kermit power said:
Why is it sanctimonious, conceited garbage?
In analysis of Brexit voting patterns there, the biggest single motivator for voting Leave was low educational attainment...
1. With all other things being equal, people who left school with GCSEs or below were 30% more likely to vote Leave than those with A levels or above.
2. Age was the second highest factor, with those aged over 65 20% more likely to vote Leave than those aged 25.
3. Oddly, income was only third, with households on less than £20k only 10% more likely to vote leave than those on £60k or more.
4. In addition to the individual motivators, in low-skilled areas all demographics were more likely to vote Leave than their peers in high-skilled areas.
5. Gender is less of an issue, but even so, the Leave vote was 55/45 for men and 49/51 for women.
There's nothing sanctimonious, conceited or judgemental in any of that. Those are just observed facts, and I don't think there's anything sanctimonious or conceited in saying that they are likely good indicators of how satisfied someone is likely to be with their lot in life. It's certainly not sanctimonious or conceited to suggest that people are more likely to vote for any sort of change if they're less satisfied with their lives than those who are more satisfied?
Of course not everyone who votes Reform will fit precisely the same demographics as people who voted Leave, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest there will be a reasonably close correlation? As such, if Blackpool South does have an unusually high proportion of older, poorer, less educated men, then it's reasonable to suggest that it's more likely to vote Reform, surely?
90% of the country left school with GCEs or lower in the 70s. Not sure why with your higher educational attainment you cannot understand this.. a degree in modern dance does not mean you are better educated. In analysis of Brexit voting patterns there, the biggest single motivator for voting Leave was low educational attainment...
1. With all other things being equal, people who left school with GCSEs or below were 30% more likely to vote Leave than those with A levels or above.
2. Age was the second highest factor, with those aged over 65 20% more likely to vote Leave than those aged 25.
3. Oddly, income was only third, with households on less than £20k only 10% more likely to vote leave than those on £60k or more.
4. In addition to the individual motivators, in low-skilled areas all demographics were more likely to vote Leave than their peers in high-skilled areas.
5. Gender is less of an issue, but even so, the Leave vote was 55/45 for men and 49/51 for women.
There's nothing sanctimonious, conceited or judgemental in any of that. Those are just observed facts, and I don't think there's anything sanctimonious or conceited in saying that they are likely good indicators of how satisfied someone is likely to be with their lot in life. It's certainly not sanctimonious or conceited to suggest that people are more likely to vote for any sort of change if they're less satisfied with their lives than those who are more satisfied?
Of course not everyone who votes Reform will fit precisely the same demographics as people who voted Leave, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest there will be a reasonably close correlation? As such, if Blackpool South does have an unusually high proportion of older, poorer, less educated men, then it's reasonable to suggest that it's more likely to vote Reform, surely?
Many people went to tech colleges and passed vocational qualifications which were of at least the level that would be university standard now and yet are ignored in your assumption of educational standards.
Amusingly you think it is odd that older people without a modern degree actually earn good money. May be have a little think about why this is in relation to what I have pointed out about education.
Dagnir said:
You're doing the same thing.
My post was a direct response to someone to appeared to have a problem that British, white, working class men were able to vote.
Context matters.
There is no context. You responded to someone pointing out provable realities of demographics in Blackpool by delving into tropes about native Britons & more bizzarely, soldiers. My post was a direct response to someone to appeared to have a problem that British, white, working class men were able to vote.
Context matters.
None of which I really care about. What is interesting to me though is how we have pages about Reform offering a refreshing alternative when the reality is base prejudices are on display every single day & the Reformites blithely skate over the worst of it & still expect to be taken seriously. Nah, you're so easily seen.
TTwiggy said:
I tend to disagree with the notion that anyone in their 60s ‘built this country’, but it’s moot at best.
So, back to them having ‘possibly more right’ to a vote? Because that does rather stand out as the strongest clear opinion in your post.
I'm not sure people really understand democracy.So, back to them having ‘possibly more right’ to a vote? Because that does rather stand out as the strongest clear opinion in your post.
What has a 60 year old done for the country that they deserve extra votes?
Lol.
President Merkin said:
There is no context. You responded to someone pointing out provable realities of demographics in Blackpool by delving into tropes about native Britons & more bizzarely, soldiers.
None of which I really care about. What is interesting to me though is how we have pages about Reform offering a refreshing alternative when the reality is base prejudices are on display every single day & the Reformites blithely skate over the worst of it & still expect to be taken seriously. Nah, you're so easily seen.
No context?? None of which I really care about. What is interesting to me though is how we have pages about Reform offering a refreshing alternative when the reality is base prejudices are on display every single day & the Reformites blithely skate over the worst of it & still expect to be taken seriously. Nah, you're so easily seen.
I was responding to someone bemoaning that Reform might win a seat because of white, working class men voting for them.
That is quite literally, the context.
Anyway, it seems you have decided what type of people might vote Reform. You're entitled to that. Your prejudices are your own.
As I said, I see voting Reform as nothing more than a protest vote. Nothing will change but it's at least a way of expressing your dissatisfaction at the 'right wing' option we have.
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