Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
Seasonal Hero said:
Oilchange said:
I think you have just lost the argument.
That implies there is an argument. If you’re dim enough to fall for Farage and Tice I don’t know what tell you. Still it allows them to keep their grift going.
Dagnir said:
Kermit power said:
How do you square that view with the fact that the average prison sentence in England & Wales increased from 11.4 months in 2000 to 22.6 months in 2022?
Seems a strange and fairly empty point to make, as there's simply too much we don't know.Crippo said:
If you do get a custodial sentence then you’ll be out in half the time
Dagnir said:
smn159 said:
Well the Blackpool South by-election is considered to be the best chance for Reform to gain an MP, with it being said that if they can't win there they probably can't win anywhere.
The constituency is described as having an unusually high proportion of white, male, poorly educated over 60's.
Being condescending and moaning that native Brits have a different opinion to you....The constituency is described as having an unusually high proportion of white, male, poorly educated over 60's.
The salt of the earth people that literally built the country and keep it running?
Actual British men that have as much and possibly more right to vote than anyone except soldiers?
You just had to take the chance to denigrate them eh? How dare they be white and male and love their country?!
Really demonstrates how warped some progressive/Intersectional views are.
...and don't deny the tone of your post, it's plain for all to see.
But then you replied with a similar denigrating tone, which weakened your point.
All voters have equal right to vote. To suggest that British men may have some additional right is mad. And soldiers? Equally mad. Soldiers fight for our freedom and democracy, not for some elevated right to vote!
PS. Non-white, non-male, non-Reform voting people also love their country too.
oyster said:
Dagnir said:
Kermit power said:
How do you square that view with the fact that the average prison sentence in England & Wales increased from 11.4 months in 2000 to 22.6 months in 2022?
Seems a strange and fairly empty point to make, as there's simply too much we don't know.Crippo said:
If you do get a custodial sentence then you’ll be out in half the time
oyster said:
I also found smn159's post a bit condescending and denigrated people. Sneering, almost.
But then you replied with a similar denigrating tone, which weakened your point.
All voters have equal right to vote. To suggest that British men may have some additional right is mad. And soldiers? Equally mad. Soldiers fight for our freedom and democracy, not for some elevated right to vote!
PS. Non-white, non-male, non-Reform voting people also love their country too.
It was less that I think they have any more right to vote but rather that if this SMN person is going to bemoan a demographic being able to vote (British men that are the 'nuts and bolts' of the whole country and have been for centuries)....it seems a little misplaced.But then you replied with a similar denigrating tone, which weakened your point.
All voters have equal right to vote. To suggest that British men may have some additional right is mad. And soldiers? Equally mad. Soldiers fight for our freedom and democracy, not for some elevated right to vote!
PS. Non-white, non-male, non-Reform voting people also love their country too.
They've contributed more than me for example!
That's why I was banging on about the context so much. It's absolutely critical in this case and taling it out of said context allowed my intentions to be easily twisted.
Dagnir said:
It was less that I think they have any more right to vote but rather that if this SMN person is going to bemoan a demographic being able to vote (British men that are the 'nuts and bolts' of the whole country and have been for centuries)....it seems a little misplaced.
They've contributed more than me for example!
That's why I was banging on about the context so much. It's absolutely critical in this case and taling it out of said context allowed my intentions to be easily twisted.
What are "non British" men in the country then? Not "nuts and bolts"? I'm an immigrant if it makes it easier to paint a picture for me.They've contributed more than me for example!
That's why I was banging on about the context so much. It's absolutely critical in this case and taling it out of said context allowed my intentions to be easily twisted.
Dagnir said:
Russia more of a threat to the UK than radical Muslims from the Middle East?
Have you been living under a rock??
This is the kind of willful blindness (insanity?) that has got us into this mess.
I think you're reading or following the wrong media.Have you been living under a rock??
This is the kind of willful blindness (insanity?) that has got us into this mess.
When did radical Muslims last fly a bomber in British airspace? When was the last time radical Muslims invade or 'liberate' half of Europe and then keep it locked down for decades?
(I've always thought, had the Battle of Britain been lost we wouldn't now be speaking German we'd be speaking Russian).
One way or another Britain has had foot soldiers operating in Muslim countries for centuries - the odd suicide bomber apart, when did Muslim militia last step foot on British or European soil? (Would the Balkans count)?
How many nuclear weapons have Muslim nations tested?
I think whatever you're reading, it's misleading you.
heebeegeetee said:
Dagnir said:
Russia more of a threat to the UK than radical Muslims from the Middle East?
Have you been living under a rock??
This is the kind of willful blindness (insanity?) that has got us into this mess.
I think you're reading or following the wrong media.Have you been living under a rock??
This is the kind of willful blindness (insanity?) that has got us into this mess.
When did radical Muslims last fly a bomber in British airspace? When was the last time radical Muslims invade or 'liberate' half of Europe and then keep it locked down for decades?
(I've always thought, had the Battle of Britain been lost we wouldn't now be speaking German we'd be speaking Russian).
One way or another Britain has had foot soldiers operating in Muslim countries for centuries - the odd suicide bomber apart, when did Muslim militia last step foot on British or European soil? (Would the Balkans count)?
How many nuclear weapons have Muslim nations tested?
I think whatever you're reading, it's misleading you.
oyster said:
Dagnir said:
smn159 said:
Well the Blackpool South by-election is considered to be the best chance for Reform to gain an MP, with it being said that if they can't win there they probably can't win anywhere.
The constituency is described as having an unusually high proportion of white, male, poorly educated over 60's.
Being condescending and moaning that native Brits have a different opinion to you....The constituency is described as having an unusually high proportion of white, male, poorly educated over 60's.
The salt of the earth people that literally built the country and keep it running?
Actual British men that have as much and possibly more right to vote than anyone except soldiers?
You just had to take the chance to denigrate them eh? How dare they be white and male and love their country?!
Really demonstrates how warped some progressive/Intersectional views are.
...and don't deny the tone of your post, it's plain for all to see.
But then you replied with a similar denigrating tone, which weakened your point.
All voters have equal right to vote. To suggest that British men may have some additional right is mad. And soldiers? Equally mad. Soldiers fight for our freedom and democracy, not for some elevated right to vote!
PS. Non-white, non-male, non-Reform voting people also love their country too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4g4-Ga5EFw
Dagnir said:
Kermit power said:
How do you square that view with the fact that the average prison sentence in England & Wales increased from 11.4 months in 2000 to 22.6 months in 2022?
Could be many reasons.Less space for petty criminals.
They're being lenient as they know we're over crowded.
Perhaps there's been sudden a change in the types of crimes being committed.
Seems a strange and fairly empty point to make, as there's simply too much we don't know.
In a world where lots of people on the populist end of politics love to moan about the fact that the courts have gone soft and nobody gets a proper jail sentence anymore, average sentences have nearly doubled over the past two decades.
Kermit power said:
You're reading it the wrong way around.
In a world where lots of people on the populist end of politics love to moan about the fact that the courts have gone soft and nobody gets a proper jail sentence anymore, average sentences have nearly doubled over the past two decades.
Wrong. More serious offences= average sentence increase.In a world where lots of people on the populist end of politics love to moan about the fact that the courts have gone soft and nobody gets a proper jail sentence anymore, average sentences have nearly doubled over the past two decades.
Kermit power said:
In a world where lots of people on the populist end of politics love to moan about the fact that the courts have gone soft and nobody gets a proper jail sentence anymore, average sentences have nearly doubled over the past two decades.
There have been longer sentences for some violent offences, such as murder. Claims that the justice system is tougher overall though would depend on the offences people are being caught and tried for. If less property crimes are reaching the courts then the change in the mix of offenders could show an increase for that reason alone.
Only 6% of burglaries are "solved" by the police as one example.
Kermit power said:
In a world where lots of people on the populist end of politics love to moan about the fact that the courts have gone soft and nobody gets a proper jail sentence anymore, average sentences have nearly doubled over the past two decades.
Just checking...Populist, does that refer to politics more likely to be voted for, i.e. democracy in action?
As opposed to the unpopular politics espoused by some politicians who think they know best and therefore what should be forced on the people, i.e. arrogance and not democracy?
Politicians don't know better, not by a long expenses claim form.
Vanden Saab said:
Kermit power said:
Why is it sanctimonious, conceited garbage?
In analysis of Brexit voting patterns there, the biggest single motivator for voting Leave was low educational attainment...
1. With all other things being equal, people who left school with GCSEs or below were 30% more likely to vote Leave than those with A levels or above.
2. Age was the second highest factor, with those aged over 65 20% more likely to vote Leave than those aged 25.
3. Oddly, income was only third, with households on less than £20k only 10% more likely to vote leave than those on £60k or more.
4. In addition to the individual motivators, in low-skilled areas all demographics were more likely to vote Leave than their peers in high-skilled areas.
5. Gender is less of an issue, but even so, the Leave vote was 55/45 for men and 49/51 for women.
There's nothing sanctimonious, conceited or judgemental in any of that. Those are just observed facts, and I don't think there's anything sanctimonious or conceited in saying that they are likely good indicators of how satisfied someone is likely to be with their lot in life. It's certainly not sanctimonious or conceited to suggest that people are more likely to vote for any sort of change if they're less satisfied with their lives than those who are more satisfied?
Of course not everyone who votes Reform will fit precisely the same demographics as people who voted Leave, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest there will be a reasonably close correlation? As such, if Blackpool South does have an unusually high proportion of older, poorer, less educated men, then it's reasonable to suggest that it's more likely to vote Reform, surely?
90% of the country left school with GCEs or lower in the 70s. Not sure why with your higher educational attainment you cannot understand this.. a degree in modern dance does not mean you are better educated. In analysis of Brexit voting patterns there, the biggest single motivator for voting Leave was low educational attainment...
1. With all other things being equal, people who left school with GCSEs or below were 30% more likely to vote Leave than those with A levels or above.
2. Age was the second highest factor, with those aged over 65 20% more likely to vote Leave than those aged 25.
3. Oddly, income was only third, with households on less than £20k only 10% more likely to vote leave than those on £60k or more.
4. In addition to the individual motivators, in low-skilled areas all demographics were more likely to vote Leave than their peers in high-skilled areas.
5. Gender is less of an issue, but even so, the Leave vote was 55/45 for men and 49/51 for women.
There's nothing sanctimonious, conceited or judgemental in any of that. Those are just observed facts, and I don't think there's anything sanctimonious or conceited in saying that they are likely good indicators of how satisfied someone is likely to be with their lot in life. It's certainly not sanctimonious or conceited to suggest that people are more likely to vote for any sort of change if they're less satisfied with their lives than those who are more satisfied?
Of course not everyone who votes Reform will fit precisely the same demographics as people who voted Leave, but I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest there will be a reasonably close correlation? As such, if Blackpool South does have an unusually high proportion of older, poorer, less educated men, then it's reasonable to suggest that it's more likely to vote Reform, surely?
Many people went to tech colleges and passed vocational qualifications which were of at least the level that would be university standard now and yet are ignored in your assumption of educational standards.
Amusingly you think it is odd that older people without a modern degree actually earn good money. May be have a little think about why this is in relation to what I have pointed out about education.
1. Do you agree that the demographic most likely to have voted Leave in the Brexit referendum was (regardless of any judgment people might or might not make at the definitions) older, less educated white men?
2. Do you agree that it is reasonable to assume that support for Reform - formerly the Brexit Party - is likely to come from the more committed end of the Leave spectrum?
If you've said No to either of the above I'd be interested to hear your reasoning. If you've said Yes to both, then surely it's a perfectly reasonable conclusion to draw that the original statement was correct?
You can argue all you want about whether or not it is fair to treat school leavers without A Levels in the Seventies in the same light as you would those who left in the 90s or today without them and I would be in full agreement with you, but that still doesn't change the fact that that is the way they were recorded, and that people recorded in that way were more likely to have voted Leave.
TTwiggy said:
Says the poster who won't answer a simple question.
I've explained what I said quite adequately.I'm not answering questions that are deliberately taking what i said outside the context to try and frame me as something I'm not.
I'm guessing you're not used to people seeing through you?
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff