Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
gt_12345 said:
LF5335 said:
86 said:
If we move to PR parties like this will have a decent voice
They may have a voice. Whether that’s “decent” depends where your moral compass sits. Wtf???
gt_12345 said:
Gecko1978 said:
I have seen some of their adverts on social media and honestly it's like 1939 Germany quite scary.
1) net zero migration (appealing)
2) no waiting lists (a dream)
3) lower taxes (frankly a must)
But what appears to be quite far right ideology.....nah thanks
Which of those 3 policies are "far right"1) net zero migration (appealing)
2) no waiting lists (a dream)
3) lower taxes (frankly a must)
But what appears to be quite far right ideology.....nah thanks
???
LF5335 said:
gt_12345 said:
LF5335 said:
86 said:
If we move to PR parties like this will have a decent voice
They may have a voice. Whether that’s “decent” depends where your moral compass sits. Wtf???
LF5335 said:
gt_12345 said:
Gecko1978 said:
I have seen some of their adverts on social media and honestly it's like 1939 Germany quite scary.
1) net zero migration (appealing)
2) no waiting lists (a dream)
3) lower taxes (frankly a must)
But what appears to be quite far right ideology.....nah thanks
Which of those 3 policies are "far right"1) net zero migration (appealing)
2) no waiting lists (a dream)
3) lower taxes (frankly a must)
But what appears to be quite far right ideology.....nah thanks
???
LF5335 said:
gt_12345 said:
Gecko1978 said:
I have seen some of their adverts on social media and honestly it's like 1939 Germany quite scary.
1) net zero migration (appealing)
2) no waiting lists (a dream)
3) lower taxes (frankly a must)
But what appears to be quite far right ideology.....nah thanks
Which of those 3 policies are "far right"1) net zero migration (appealing)
2) no waiting lists (a dream)
3) lower taxes (frankly a must)
But what appears to be quite far right ideology.....nah thanks
???
LF5335 said:
gt_12345 said:
Okay, so what is it thats immoral?
https://www.reformparty.uk/“Make Britain great again”
Gee, I wonder who they’re pandering to with that Trumpism. If you’re going to pretend to be credible then maybe don’t copy the most morally bankrupt President in US history.
You're really struggling...
gt_12345 said:
LF5335 said:
gt_12345 said:
Okay, so what is it thats immoral?
https://www.reformparty.uk/“Make Britain great again”
Gee, I wonder who they’re pandering to with that Trumpism. If you’re going to pretend to be credible then maybe don’t copy the most morally bankrupt President in US history.
You're really scraping....
LF5335 said:
gt_12345 said:
LF5335 said:
gt_12345 said:
Okay, so what is it thats immoral?
https://www.reformparty.uk/“Make Britain great again”
Gee, I wonder who they’re pandering to with that Trumpism. If you’re going to pretend to be credible then maybe don’t copy the most morally bankrupt President in US history.
You're really scraping....
I'll sit here and wait until someone can tell me why Reform are "far right". So far, nothing.
Currently it seems to be a term used by (certain people) who think anything right of their perspective is "far right" or "waycist".
Gecko1978 said:
I have seen some of their adverts on social media and honestly it's like 1939 Germany quite scary.
1) net zero migration (appealing)
2) no waiting lists (a dream)
3) lower taxes (frankly a must)
But what appears to be quite far right ideology.....nah thanks
Surely your comments are a poor attempt at satire? 1) net zero migration (appealing)
2) no waiting lists (a dream)
3) lower taxes (frankly a must)
But what appears to be quite far right ideology.....nah thanks
Having some semblance of a sensible immigration policy is reminiscent of Nazi Party circa 1939?
No. No it isn’t. However having an open border immigration policy is frankly madness. The primary job of a government is to ensure the safety of its populace. This cannot be achieved if your borders are so porous that you’ve no idea who is entering the country.
Expediant healthcare waiting times is far-right and something to be feared? Have you even given your comments any thought at all? As far as I’m aware, the socialist utopia of Cuba has very short waiting times for healthcare, (despite everything else falling to pieces)? So by your logic, Cuba is “far-right” ?
And lower taxes, or one could suggest, better value for money for the taxpayer and considerably less public spending waste, is also “far-right”? Can I deduce that your political stance is for greater mismanagement, more inefficiency and even more £’s wasted by government, resulting in increasing national debt and higher taxes?
Have you ever stopped to consider for a moment that you might actually be insane?
Or are you just trolling?
For what’s its worth, a vote for Reform is a protest vote. With the majority that our current government has, tighter immigration laws that are actually enforced and the necessary resources for the Border Force to do their job properly is easily achievable. It’s just that our current government, for whatever reason, doesn’t want to do so.
Reducing NHS waiting times, (for actual treatment), is a lot more difficult, and would likely take a decade or more to achieve.
A tighter reign on government spending, spending more wisely, more efficiently, that’s certainly achievable in, I imagine, quite short order. Yet again, it’s something that neither the Conservatives or Labour actually want to implement, much to my immense frustration.
ntiz said:
They actually have a fairly detailed manifesto on their website, it’s worth a read to get a feel for them.
I’m not voting for them or anything but from what I read they aren’t totally insane. Of course you can shoot holes through it but I have never read a manifesto that you couldn’t.
I'm sure they're not totally insane, and my point wasn't to simply to shoot holes through their manifesto. In fact it's not so mich the manifesto that's the issue, and more how it's likely to be achieved.I’m not voting for them or anything but from what I read they aren’t totally insane. Of course you can shoot holes through it but I have never read a manifesto that you couldn’t.
So, if one takes their key goals of lower taxes, net zero immigration, zero (note zero and not lower) waiting lists, and cheaper energy, could you summarise the main ways they are proposing to achieve these things. Don't need detail, just broad principles will do.
In the absence of that it sounds like an ad that promises "eat unlimited doughnuts, sit on your arse all day, and have a flat stomach"
)I don't believe that Richard Tice expects Reform to gain any seats at the next election. That's a function of the current electoral system which makes it almost impossible for 'challenger' parties. More likely is that Tice intends to move the Tories towards Reform thinking, especially cutting out waste in public spending, lower tax and immigration control. We've seen this M.O. before, with UKIP.
Voters like me cannot vote for the incompetent ConSocialist incumbents, nor for Starmer's equally mediocre alternative. If I was to vote Reform, and it acted as a catalyst for the Tories to actually start acting like Conservatives, I'd consider it a vote used rather than a vote wasted.
Voters like me cannot vote for the incompetent ConSocialist incumbents, nor for Starmer's equally mediocre alternative. If I was to vote Reform, and it acted as a catalyst for the Tories to actually start acting like Conservatives, I'd consider it a vote used rather than a vote wasted.
105.4 said:
Gecko1978 said:
I have seen some of their adverts on social media and honestly it's like 1939 Germany quite scary.
1) net zero migration (appealing)
2) no waiting lists (a dream)
3) lower taxes (frankly a must)
But what appears to be quite far right ideology.....nah thanks
Surely your comments are a poor attempt at satire? 1) net zero migration (appealing)
2) no waiting lists (a dream)
3) lower taxes (frankly a must)
But what appears to be quite far right ideology.....nah thanks
Having some semblance of a sensible immigration policy is reminiscent of Nazi Party circa 1939?
No. No it isn’t. However having an open border immigration policy is frankly madness. The primary job of a government is to ensure the safety of its populace. This cannot be achieved if your borders are so porous that you’ve no idea who is entering the country.
Expediant healthcare waiting times is far-right and something to be feared? Have you even given your comments any thought at all? As far as I’m aware, the socialist utopia of Cuba has very short waiting times for healthcare, (despite everything else falling to pieces)? So by your logic, Cuba is “far-right” ?
And lower taxes, or one could suggest, better value for money for the taxpayer and considerably less public spending waste, is also “far-right”? Can I deduce that your political stance is for greater mismanagement, more inefficiency and even more £’s wasted by government, resulting in increasing national debt and higher taxes?
Have you ever stopped to consider for a moment that you might actually be insane?
Or are you just trolling?
For what’s its worth, a vote for Reform is a protest vote. With the majority that our current government has, tighter immigration laws that are actually enforced and the necessary resources for the Border Force to do their job properly is easily achievable. It’s just that our current government, for whatever reason, doesn’t want to do so.
Reducing NHS waiting times, (for actual treatment), is a lot more difficult, and would likely take a decade or more to achieve.
A tighter reign on government spending, spending more wisely, more efficiently, that’s certainly achievable in, I imagine, quite short order. Yet again, it’s something that neither the Conservatives or Labour actually want to implement, much to my immense frustration.
Hants PHer said:
I don't believe that Richard Tice expects Reform to gain any seats at the next election. That's a function of the current electoral system which makes it almost impossible for 'challenger' parties. More likely is that Tice intends to move the Tories towards Reform thinking, especially cutting out waste in public spending, lower tax and immigration control. We've seen this M.O. before, with UKIP.
Voters like me cannot vote for the incompetent ConSocialist incumbents, nor for Starmer's equally mediocre alternative. If I was to vote Reform, and it acted as a catalyst for the Tories to actually start acting like Conservatives, I'd consider it a vote used rather than a vote wasted.
That pretty much sums up my thinking.Voters like me cannot vote for the incompetent ConSocialist incumbents, nor for Starmer's equally mediocre alternative. If I was to vote Reform, and it acted as a catalyst for the Tories to actually start acting like Conservatives, I'd consider it a vote used rather than a vote wasted.
Let’s wind the clock back 40 years and look at our choices.
In the Blue Corner, weighing in at 154 lb’s, the Iron Lady, Margaret Thatcher.
In the Red Corner, weighing in at 188 lb’s, all the way from Wales, the Ginger Ninja, Neil Kinnock.
As voters, we knew what we were getting. Both Leaders were people of principle. Both were political Leaders whom I respected.
And what do we have now from all three main parties, (four if you include the SNP)? An absolute cesspit of underachievement, a gaggle of spineless cowards intent on looking after only themselves, not the people whom they serve. Bland, wishy-washy, grey, morally bankrupt b
ds who care even less for you than they do for the dead wasp on their windowsill, until that is, the time when they need you to vote for them so they can continue to dig their disgusting, greedy, grubby little snouts in the bottomless trough of the public purse for another five years, all the while laughing at how much of a gullible tt you’ve been to vote for them.f
k them all, regardless of the their party affiliation. s ! I utterly resent even a penny of my taxes being spent to provide a single one of them any degree of comfort, financially or otherwise.
Knock it all down, wipe the slate clean, because what we have now isn’t working.
LF5335 said:
https://www.reformparty.uk/
“Make Britain great again”
Gee, I wonder who they’re pandering to with that Trumpism. If you’re going to pretend to be credible then maybe don’t copy the most morally bankrupt President in US history.
Make America Great Again was a Ronald Reagan slogan he used to win the election in 1980, it came about as the USA economy was failing in the late 70's, just as it was in the UK.“Make Britain great again”
Gee, I wonder who they’re pandering to with that Trumpism. If you’re going to pretend to be credible then maybe don’t copy the most morally bankrupt President in US history.
Nothing in politics is new.
Bradgate said:
It’s perfectly reasonable for Reform to exist, and their policy agenda is entirely legitimate. People who want much lower taxes, much smaller government, radical welfare cuts, more private sector involvement in healthcare, much lower legal immigration, radical action to tackle illegal immigration, an end to ‘net zero’ policies and pushback against the ‘woke’ agenda should have a party to vote for in a functioning democracy. Particularly as the Tories have abandoned any pretence of supporting a small-government, low-tax economically libertarian agenda.
The problem is that FPTP prevents such parties getting candidates elected in just the same way it prevents Green parties &radical left-wing parties getting elected.
I agree that they should be allowed to exist, and fervently believe that we desperately need to get rid of FPTP so that everyone's vote carries the same weight regardless of where they live and whom they want to vote for, as we certainly don't have anything that can reasonably be called democracy at the moment. The problem is that FPTP prevents such parties getting candidates elected in just the same way it prevents Green parties &radical left-wing parties getting elected.
That in no way changes the fact that it is simply not possible to deliver Reform UK's manifesto promises as they are mutually exclusive without either enforced euthanasia or enforced parenthood, hence my amazement that 1 in 10 people are planning to vote for them.
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