Birmingham Transport Plan, remove parking spaces
Discussion
gazza285 said:
One of the main benefits of public transport over cars is the road space aspect. Every urban area is now blighted by the sheer number of vehicles dumped along our transport infrastructure. Every journey into the town centre will see me delayed, waiting for oncoming vehicles to pass parked cars.
Thats too many parking spaces that is!oyster said:
Biggy Stardust said:
Quhet said:
That's where park and ride comes in. Like it or not, it's fairly straightforward to drive to a station like Selly Oak, King's Norton, Longbridge etc and then get the train in. Its what hundreds if not thousands do everyday for work
Presume I don't do M-F/9-5 but actually work at times for which public transport doesn't really provide. Further presume that I don't work in an office but actually do physical things that need tools & materials. How the hell am I supposed to transport my equipment for work?These are rhetorical questions because I don't really think you have an answer other than platitudes & vague reassurance that it will somehow not be a problem. I'd love for there to be a simple answer based on public transport but I've tried & there isn't.
But for every car/van on the road that's:
- Carrying someone disabled
- Carrying tools
- Carrying multiple passengers
- Carrying shift workers
etc.
there's 10 vehicles carrying a single occupant who works in an office 9-5 and getting in the way of everyone.
So if we can convince just 10/20/30% of those people to convert to non-car use, then it reduces congestion massively.
The simple fact is that for many people, the convenience, ease, time, cost of driving into a city centre and paying for parking is worth it. Your car is there where you left it (normally) and ready to go, even with the delays of getting in and out of the city.
Another harsh fact is that many people don't want to mix with some of the people you on public transport and having to wait for public transport. And again some people consider themselves too posh to use buses and trains, even though they may not be posh themselves. (Me, I'm a happy bus w
ker when needed).
Another harsh fact is that many people don't want to mix with some of the people you on public transport and having to wait for public transport. And again some people consider themselves too posh to use buses and trains, even though they may not be posh themselves. (Me, I'm a happy bus w
ker when needed).vikingaero said:
The simple fact is that for many people, the convenience, ease, time, cost of driving into a city centre and paying for parking is worth it. Your car is there where you left it (normally) and ready to go, even with the delays of getting in and out of the city.
Another harsh fact is that many people don't want to mix with some of the people you on public transport and having to wait for public transport. And again some people consider themselves too posh to use buses and trains, even though they may not be posh themselves. (Me, I'm a happy bus wker when needed).
Not forgtting the fact that local buses are extremely uncomfortable. Seats cramped without enough width or legroom. Granted not everyone is my height (6ft3) but it is physically impossible for me tyo sit with my legs together facing forward. I need to sit at an angle using two seats. Fine when a bus is half empty but not so much when a stranger wants to share the seat with you. Add the bone rattling ride over bumps. The bus stop waits. The cancelled buses. They are not selling themselves to me. Even at zero cost to use them.Another harsh fact is that many people don't want to mix with some of the people you on public transport and having to wait for public transport. And again some people consider themselves too posh to use buses and trains, even though they may not be posh themselves. (Me, I'm a happy bus w
ker when needed).I have always thought that they need to change the design to sitting 3 people across the bus rather than 4 along with greater legroom.
When I'm abroad with work I often use public transport, as its clean, punctual, cheap and convenient. Everything its not in the UK.
I also note in Europe that their major towns have lots of pleasant (Normally underground) Car Parks which seem to have been built under public spaces such as Parks etc and as a result the towns and city centres are thriving with lots of shops, cafes and restaurants.
For example last summer whilst driving to Italy we came off the Autoroute and popped in Troyes for lunch, absolutely no issues finding parking even for tourists like us and we had a very pleasant lunch before getting on the road again.
I also note in Europe that their major towns have lots of pleasant (Normally underground) Car Parks which seem to have been built under public spaces such as Parks etc and as a result the towns and city centres are thriving with lots of shops, cafes and restaurants.
For example last summer whilst driving to Italy we came off the Autoroute and popped in Troyes for lunch, absolutely no issues finding parking even for tourists like us and we had a very pleasant lunch before getting on the road again.
grumbledoak said:
gazza285 said:
One of the main benefits of public transport over cars is the road space aspect. Every urban area is now blighted by the sheer number of vehicles dumped along our transport infrastructure. Every journey into the town centre will see me delayed, waiting for oncoming vehicles to pass parked cars.
Damn straight! Here in London the busses just pass through the busses waiting at the bus stops. They don't cause any congestion at all. It's like magic.
Meanwhile we have London councils falling over themselves to ban private car ownership because of congestion that they have contributed and compounded with their NIMBY driven LTN policies. Having spent 100s of millions of £ reducing road space for vehicles, those councils along with TFL annually plead poverty for other services. All in the name of swapping, perceived or otherwise, one elite (the motorist) with another elite (the cyclist, scooterist, skateboarders, deliverooist, etc).
Police State said:
grumbledoak said:
gazza285 said:
One of the main benefits of public transport over cars is the road space aspect. Every urban area is now blighted by the sheer number of vehicles dumped along our transport infrastructure. Every journey into the town centre will see me delayed, waiting for oncoming vehicles to pass parked cars.
Damn straight! Here in London the busses just pass through the busses waiting at the bus stops. They don't cause any congestion at all. It's like magic.Meanwhile we have London councils falling over themselves to ban private car ownership because of congestion that they have contributed and compounded with their NIMBY driven LTN policies. Having spent 100s of millions of £ reducing road space for vehicles, those councils along with TFL annually plead poverty for other services. All in the name of swapping, perceived or otherwise, one elite (the motorist) with another elite (the cyclist, scooterist, skateboarders, deliverooist, etc).
Police State said:
Next time anyone here is in London, take a look at the buses outside of rush hour and you will see perfectly that the majority of them are running at less than 25% capacity.
Meanwhile we have London councils falling over themselves to ban private car ownership because of congestion that they have contributed and compounded with their NIMBY driven LTN policies. Having spent 100s of millions of £ reducing road space for vehicles, those councils along with TFL annually plead poverty for other services. All in the name of swapping, perceived or otherwise, one elite (the motorist) with another elite (the cyclist, scooterist, skateboarders, deliverooist, etc).
Just fit wifi and rename them as digital nomad work spaces. That 75% will be filled with intolerant crusties with MacBooks in a second. )Meanwhile we have London councils falling over themselves to ban private car ownership because of congestion that they have contributed and compounded with their NIMBY driven LTN policies. Having spent 100s of millions of £ reducing road space for vehicles, those councils along with TFL annually plead poverty for other services. All in the name of swapping, perceived or otherwise, one elite (the motorist) with another elite (the cyclist, scooterist, skateboarders, deliverooist, etc).
Rivenink said:
I'm all for any scheme that can comprehensively reduce car use.
The fewer numpties that use a car just to get from A to B, means more traffic free roads for those of us who enjoy driving.
Get as many of the numpties of the road as possible, I think.
How would you be different from all the other numpties as restrictions would apply to you also unless you feel you be exempt in some way?The fewer numpties that use a car just to get from A to B, means more traffic free roads for those of us who enjoy driving.
Get as many of the numpties of the road as possible, I think.
Quhet said:
Sensible post and I agree 100%. It makes complete sense to affect a modal shift away from cars in town and city centres as long as the public transport and cycling infrastructure is improved too.
Plenty of places got into a mess in the 1950s-1970s by planning around the car, Birmingham included (how many here complain that it's a concrete sthole?). Movement away from this will obviously cause some short term pain but it should bear fruit - just look at how Danish and German Cities have been able to do it.
Remember the smoking ban debate, it was going to save all the pubs from closure as all the non smokers would come out and spend their money in smoke free environments....Plenty of places got into a mess in the 1950s-1970s by planning around the car, Birmingham included (how many here complain that it's a concrete s
thole?). Movement away from this will obviously cause some short term pain but it should bear fruit - just look at how Danish and German Cities have been able to do it.Now we will have all the walkers and cyclists saving the city cernters.
Used to go into Manchester a lot, into the Print Works, but then the council raised car parking charges and made driving in more difficult, haven't been in the city centre for years. Had to go in just before Christmas on a busy Saturday afternoon, noticed a lot of high end cars, new Range Rovers, Mercs parked illegally, their users not bothered about the parking tickets.
Rivenink said:
I'm all for any scheme that can comprehensively reduce car use.
The fewer numpties that use a car just to get from A to B, means more traffic free roads for those of us who enjoy driving.
Get as many of the numpties of the road as possible, I think.
A cars reason to exist is to go from A to B, usually so the owner can work or spend money, keeping the economy going.The fewer numpties that use a car just to get from A to B, means more traffic free roads for those of us who enjoy driving.
Get as many of the numpties of the road as possible, I think.
You, I assume, as you are on a car forum, are one of those who just go from A to A, adding only to congestion and pollution.
The days of going out for a relaxing drive are long gone. Too many people in this country and 7 days a week shopping are just 2 of the problems.
Colonel Cupcake said:
The days of going out for a relaxing drive are long gone. Too many people in this country and 7 days a week shopping are just 2 of the problems.
Depends where you live. Just north of Glasgow there are quiet roads on my doorstep. Last month I was away on an overnighter and drove for miles through Perthshire only seeing a few other cars
I think the one issue is there’s a pretty big Children’s hospital in the city. Now you’ll have workers working in a service which runs 24/7 365.
And the fact it does also provide services for many children across the Midlands who may not be up to travelling on public transport.
Otherwise one of the best things Bham have built recently is the A38 cycle lane which linking the uni and hospitals to the city.
And the fact it does also provide services for many children across the Midlands who may not be up to travelling on public transport.
Otherwise one of the best things Bham have built recently is the A38 cycle lane which linking the uni and hospitals to the city.
Colonel Cupcake said:
A cars reason to exist is to go from A to B,
The problem is, they only do that for less than 5% of the car's life. The rest of the time they're unused.That means dumping them on the sides of roads, screwing up traffic flow, hampering travellers such as cyclists from proceeding safely, making it difficult for children to cross roads, indeed making playing in the street a thing of the past, and so on; or they're in car parks which is all space that could be housing, retail, commercial, leisure etc.
This is a problem that isn't going to go away, it has to be addressed, and doing so isn't a war on the motorist and nor does it make anyone rabidly anti-car.
heebeegeetee said:
The problem is, they only do that for less than 5% of the car's life. The rest of the time they're unused.
That means dumping them on the sides of roads, screwing up traffic flow, hampering travellers such as cyclists from proceeding safely, making it difficult for children to cross roads, indeed making playing in the street a thing of the past, and so on; or they're in car parks which is all space that could be housing, retail, commercial, leisure etc.
This is a problem that isn't going to go away, it has to be addressed, and doing so isn't a war on the motorist and nor does it make anyone rabidly anti-car.
Dumping them on the sides of roads? You mean parking. Traffic flow? Easy enough to ban parking on main roads. Residential roads on the other hand are for people to live in, including parking their cars. In fact my 1970s estate has footpaths completely seperated from the roads. Even 50 years after it was built there is ample parking on the service roads and car parks. That means dumping them on the sides of roads, screwing up traffic flow, hampering travellers such as cyclists from proceeding safely, making it difficult for children to cross roads, indeed making playing in the street a thing of the past, and so on; or they're in car parks which is all space that could be housing, retail, commercial, leisure etc.
This is a problem that isn't going to go away, it has to be addressed, and doing so isn't a war on the motorist and nor does it make anyone rabidly anti-car.
As for the retail, commercial, leisure buildings they can and do have car parks attached. It isn't rocket science. Our new council leisure centre has a dedicated car park.
Parked vehicles hampering cyclists? I can't say I've noticed.
The only problem that needs addressed is the anti car policies of some politicians.
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