Suella Braverman: ‘Islamists are in charge’
Discussion
julian987R said:
Killboy said:
86 said:
Imagine living in Ukraine imagine living in North Korea imagine being a Uyghur in China etc etc the world is a nasty place. Never been any ethnic cleansing in Europe oh wait there has. Thought Europeans were such nice people
Imagine living in the UK under constant threat in the culture wars!and
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/26158165/london-horr...
Nobody is claiming that there's no machete crime, but it's not exactly something that most people will ever witness either.
It's somewhat reminiscent of moral panics from things like the Mods vs Rockers back in the mid sixties.
julian987R said:
Are you really that ignorant that you think living in the UK is anything like being in a violent dictatorship, part of a minority suffering systemic oppression from a violent state or living in a war zone? julian987R said:
Electro1980 said:
Are you really that ignorant that you think living in the UK is anything like being in a violent dictatorship, part of a minority suffering systemic oppression from a violent state or living in a war zone?
word soup.Oakey said:
Kermit power said:
On the first point, you do realise that the people who work for the NHS also grow old, retire and need replacing, don't you? And that without the massive employment of immigrants in the NHS right since its inception, it would long since have collapsed?
Yes, I've acknowledged that; ageing population, declining birtrate, more immigrants required. The contentious point is the suggestion this will lead to demographic change over the long term.KP said:
Also, that the demands placed on the NHS have increased massively because whilst life expectancy has increased dramatically in recent decades, healthy life expectancy has moved much more slowly, meaning far more pressure on the NHS.
The idea that the NHS is struggling primarily or even significantly because of immigration is simply incorrect Correlation rather than Causation.
It's 700k people per year. That's the equivalent to, what, the population of Birmingham? How does that not put pressure on housing, infrastructure, etc?The idea that the NHS is struggling primarily or even significantly because of immigration is simply incorrect Correlation rather than Causation.
KP said:
On the second point, you've answered it for me! 
You know that line from financial adverts, "past performance is not a guarantee of future performance"? If we were having this discussion 150 years ago, you'd be saying that there was no reason to expect Christianity in Europe to decline as it hadn't in the previous 1,850 years, but look at it now! That doesn't mean that Islam will experience a similar decline in the next 150 years, but it certainly makes the point that you cannot possibly assume to say whether or not it will.
Is there any evidence to suggest even the slightest decline? You know that line from financial adverts, "past performance is not a guarantee of future performance"? If we were having this discussion 150 years ago, you'd be saying that there was no reason to expect Christianity in Europe to decline as it hadn't in the previous 1,850 years, but look at it now! That doesn't mean that Islam will experience a similar decline in the next 150 years, but it certainly makes the point that you cannot possibly assume to say whether or not it will.KP said:
Lastly, your idea of continued immigration from the Middle East doesn't really make sense. Steps are already being taken to address the unsustainable issue with the ageing pensioner segment of society, plus the increase in life expectancy has plateaued, so there will be a natural decrease in the levels of immigration we need creating a pull, whilst on the push side, no war lasts forever, so you can't say with any degree of accuracy whether there will be a sustained flow of refugees from the Middle East for that long period.
It's not "my idea". It was based on projections the muslim population in the UK would be 16% by 2050 and which EU countries would have a Muslim majority further out. It also predicts which EU countries are unlikely to ever reach a majority. Regards "no war last forever", Israel and Palestine might disagree. Which is somewhat ironic given that it started with resistance to Jewish migration, led to civil unrest and has only been fuelled further when the Jews wanted, and created, their own state.
Thanks for actually having a proper discussion on this
Whilst there were of course lots of other geopolitical arguments involved, the specific flashpoint issue upon which the ultimate blame for starting the conflict is blamed was an argument between the French and the Russians as to whether it should be the Catholic or the Russian Orthodox Church that protected the interests of Christians in the Holy Land, with the Ottomans granting the Catholics a key to the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the Russians kicking up a massive fuss in response.
Can you really imagine the UK going to war today over who has a ceremonial key to a Church a couple of thousand miles away?
The only reasonable bet we can make about the next 150 years is that pretty much everything Will change beyond our ability to predict it.
Dog Star said:
Any of the people posting on here thinking it’s all a load of Daily Mail dog whistle/racism etc live in Bradford/Rochdale/Luton etc etc?
Thought not.
Anyone on here had their sister in hospital with a broken arm for telling a gang of Muslim lads to “f-k off” for making lewd remarks “show us your tits white b
h” etc. Police did nothing (mind you they were ignoring the grooming too, so no surprise).
Thought not.
You lot haven’t got a clue.
A bloke I worked with spent 5 weeks in a coma, 5 months in hospital recovering from being beaten up by 6 English Speaking White Thugs with Stoke in Trent Accents, on the way home from.the Pub. He, a white middle aged bloke with a Stoke Accent, because whilst in the pub, he had the temerity to lean over and ask them to stop swearing in front of his wife. A white woman originally from Russia. Thought not.
Anyone on here had their sister in hospital with a broken arm for telling a gang of Muslim lads to “f-k off” for making lewd remarks “show us your tits white b
h” etc. Police did nothing (mind you they were ignoring the grooming too, so no surprise). Thought not.
You lot haven’t got a clue.
They waited until he was walking home, followed him and set about him on the street.
I bet none of them held any religious faith. Just like the ones in your example. But in this case when they are in A&E they'll write CoE and not Muslim.
julian987R said:
I understood it, it just came across like like a poundland Owen Jones, thats all.
You really are deeply ignorant aren’t you? This explains why you hold the views you do. Must be quite a sad place to live in that much fear, but also sad for those around you that you can’t see the pain and suffering people under real danger go through every day.We now have the strange situation where according to Dowden it's right that 30p Lee is suspended for saying Islamists are in charge of London but apparently it's acceptable for Braverman to say Islamists are in charge of the country.
Dowden said:
I don't believe the language used by Suella Braverman has crossed the line, where she should apologise for it, no I don't.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: We now have the strange situation where according to Dowden it's right that 30p Lee is suspended for saying Islamists are in charge of London but apparently it's acceptable for Braverman to say Islamists are in charge of the country.
Rishi’s scared of Braverman, she has a lot of support from the frother wing of the Tory Party, Anderson less so.Dowden said:
I don't believe the language used by Suella Braverman has crossed the line, where she should apologise for it, no I don't.
Countdown said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: We now have the strange situation where according to Dowden it's right that 30p Lee is suspended for saying Islamists are in charge of London but apparently it's acceptable for Braverman to say Islamists are in charge of the country.
Rishi’s scared of Braverman, she has a lot of support from the frother wing of the Tory Party, Anderson less so.Dowden said:
I don't believe the language used by Suella Braverman has crossed the line, where she should apologise for it, no I don't.
Yup, the iron knee is this really is an opportunity to show some muscle, backbone and possibly win over the people put off by these lunatics.
Whatever the case is, I'm making sure I stock up on popcorn for the run up to the election. The last 24-48 hours has been absolutely hilarious - even the more "level headed" PHers have had a proper wobble.
Whatever the case is, I'm making sure I stock up on popcorn for the run up to the election. The last 24-48 hours has been absolutely hilarious - even the more "level headed" PHers have had a proper wobble.
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