Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
I suspect the missing traffic is mostly because industrial action has dragged on for most of the post-plague period, solve that and traffic will rise back up to the point where people will start moaning about services being too full again and then there will be less political pain about spending money on capacity growth projects deferred for the last 50 years.
Mr Penguin said:
This is how much road space it takes one bus load of people to travel with bikes or cars. We do need public transport to make cities function, even if we are just hoping everyone else uses them and not ourselves.
We need them to connect cities as well. I could drive to central London but it's way quicker to go into Leeds and get the train. Plus I can get some work done on the way, work, have a beer with a colleague and be legal on the way back.I'm no train spotter but I much prefer it to driving on a motorway or taking a short haul flight.
Mr Penguin said:
This is how much road space it takes one bus load of people to travel with bikes or cars. We do need public transport to make cities function, even if we are just hoping everyone else uses them and not ourselves.
Now do one showing the train plus the length of track in front and behind that can't be used.C4ME said:
And explain how there are 60 cars in the left picture (therefore a minimum of 60 people being transported) and how those 60+ people fit on that single decker bus in the right picture. At least make the comparison accurate.
People can stand in buses but you can also pretend it's a double decker.Trains are a wonderful way of travelling. Unfortunately, as with most public services and utilities, we are just very poor at designing and operating them in the interests of the public. The rest of Europe are generally better. I jumped on a tgv in Paris the other day and was in Geneva 3 hours later for a meeting. Then on to Verona. All on time, properly staffed and clean etc. Sadly, very different to broken Britain.
Mr Penguin said:
This is how much road space it takes one bus load of people to travel with bikes or cars. We do need public transport to make cities function, even if we are just hoping everyone else uses them and not ourselves.
Why did they have 1 person per car, but a full bus? How many buses do you need to get those people to where they are actually going?Edited by Mr Penguin on Thursday 25th April 12:16
Getting to my local town is a 10 minute drive, or a 45 minute bus ride. The bus actually leaves our local going in the wrong direction! I often see it struggling up the hill on the way out with maybe one passenger on it.
S600BSB said:
Trains are a wonderful way of travelling. Unfortunately, as with most public services and utilities, we are just very poor at designing and operating them in the interests of the public. The rest of Europe are generally better. I jumped on a tgv in Paris the other day and was in Geneva 3 hours later for a meeting. Then on to Verona. All on time, properly staffed and clean etc. Sadly, very different to broken Britain
How much more tax are you prepared to pay to subsidise them? 98elise said:
Why did they have 1 person per car, but a full bus? How many buses do you need to get those people to where they are actually going?
Getting to my local town is a 10 minute drive, or a 45 minute bus ride. The bus actually leaves our local going in the wrong direction! I often see it struggling up the hill on the way out with maybe one passenger on it.
I think we both know that a bus with a reasonable number of people will take up less space than cars.Getting to my local town is a 10 minute drive, or a 45 minute bus ride. The bus actually leaves our local going in the wrong direction! I often see it struggling up the hill on the way out with maybe one passenger on it.
One Fiat 500 - 3.6m long, 4 people
One bus - 12m long
People needed for the bus to use less space per person than a full Fiat 500 - 14
98elise said:
Why did they have 1 person per car, but a full bus? How many buses do you need to get those people to where they are actually going?
Getting to my local town is a 10 minute drive, or a 45 minute bus ride. The bus actually leaves our local going in the wrong direction! I often see it struggling up the hill on the way out with maybe one passenger on it.
Occasionally I wonder if rural transport would work better if buses just ran at commuter time; I live about 15 miles from the nearest railway station and the bus starts here and stops there and vice versa, but outside rushhour when it's often standing room only it's lucky if there's more than 2 people and a dog on. What if us simple country folk were offered one subsidised cab round trip a week instead of having a bus carrying empty seats about? It needs a spreadsheet and I can't be bothered.Getting to my local town is a 10 minute drive, or a 45 minute bus ride. The bus actually leaves our local going in the wrong direction! I often see it struggling up the hill on the way out with maybe one passenger on it.
Mr Penguin said:
98elise said:
Why did they have 1 person per car, but a full bus? How many buses do you need to get those people to where they are actually going?
Getting to my local town is a 10 minute drive, or a 45 minute bus ride. The bus actually leaves our local going in the wrong direction! I often see it struggling up the hill on the way out with maybe one passenger on it.
I think we both know that a bus with a reasonable number of people will take up less space than cars.Getting to my local town is a 10 minute drive, or a 45 minute bus ride. The bus actually leaves our local going in the wrong direction! I often see it struggling up the hill on the way out with maybe one passenger on it.
One Fiat 500 - 3.6m long, 4 people
One bus - 12m long
People needed for the bus to use less space per person than a full Fiat 500 - 14
Randy Winkman said:
Why is the car in your comparison full?
It makes the car sound better - even with the most optimistic assumptions possible the car still does uses far more space than a bus. I find it a useful technique for back of a fag packet calculations. Use three sets of numbers - the ones I think are realistic, the best case ones for my argument, and the worst case ones for my argument. Very often, all three show the same thing and the conclusion is clear.
Edited by Mr Penguin on Thursday 25th April 14:27
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