Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
Earthdweller said:
hidetheelephants said:
A '97 level majority would be utterly wasted if it isn't used to address the chronic disfunctions of state; if they aren't prepared to attempt constitutional/electoral reform it will be as much a missed opportunity now as it was then. The housing crisis is simple to solve by comparison. None of these will have much short term economic impact so there's nothing to stop them other than timidity, although solving the housing crisis might well improve productivity.
Why would they have constitutional/electoral reform if they can win a majority without it ?Their goal is power, they don’t want ( no party does ) a perpetual power sharing coalition
It is possible that SKS has no ambition beyond getting into Downing Street and being a slightly less s
t, turd-rolled-in-glitter version of the tories, I guess we'll seebhstewie said:
hstewie said:valiant said:
Is that your excuse for 14 years of failure now? Blame the civil service ‘blob’?
So when Labour, in your opinion, fail to deliver you’ll be excusing them as well because of the same ‘blob’?
Look forward to that one.
I swear to god there's some weird Stockholm Syndrome sSo when Labour, in your opinion, fail to deliver you’ll be excusing them as well because of the same ‘blob’?
Look forward to that one.
t going on with Wombat 
So let me make it clear for you.
You seem to make the basic and incorrect assumption that I think we should re-elect the Tories.
As I have said before, In their current form I do not. Equally, I think that a lot of what is said about them is emotive b
ks. Not all, but a good proportion of it.However, based on previous experience (granted you weren't paying attention at the time); what they have said thus far and looking at the people involved, electing a Labour government would also be an act of self-harm and a complete waste of 5 years.
While that's probably what will happen lets be very clear, there are no good options or outcomes on the table, its all a bit s
t and its likely to stay that way,However, not all of that is down to the politicians (of any flavour). The electorate needs to look at itself as well. There's far too many dishonest chancers, shysters and epic whingers amongst us.
That takes many forms but whether its people demanding the moon on a stick, stealing a living at work, literally stealing or indeed companies behaving like arses (Water companies, insurance companies & Banks etc) , its everywhere.
Good luck to any politician that thinks he/she can fix it.
Rufus Stone said:
crankedup5 said:
Nobody needs an excuse to vote for the Party which best reflects ones political aspiration and ambition. 
Errrrr. They rather do if it's the current Tory Party. 
The problem is. two major Party’s are, as George said ‘ two cheeks from same backside’.
hidetheelephants said:
Earthdweller said:
hidetheelephants said:
A '97 level majority would be utterly wasted if it isn't used to address the chronic disfunctions of state; if they aren't prepared to attempt constitutional/electoral reform it will be as much a missed opportunity now as it was then. The housing crisis is simple to solve by comparison. None of these will have much short term economic impact so there's nothing to stop them other than timidity, although solving the housing crisis might well improve productivity.
Why would they have constitutional/electoral reform if they can win a majority without it ?Their goal is power, they don’t want ( no party does ) a perpetual power sharing coalition
It is possible that SKS has no ambition beyond getting into Downing Street and being a slightly less s
t, turd-rolled-in-glitter version of the tories, I guess we'll seeDo you think Labour have no culpability in the above decisions you quote ?
I really can’t see any party changing the system to one they can’t win outright when they think they can
I’d bet even the LD’s or greens would soon be quiet on it if they thought they’d get a majority to govern
What bad actors are going to fill the vacuum, or it just one you don’t agree with perhaps?
It’s almost impossible for any party to break the current system down UKIP got loads of votes but no MP’s and reform will likely be the same
I see zero incentive for Labour/conservatives to fiddle with the two party system, there is nothing in it for them
Earthdweller said:
hidetheelephants said:
Given that you're bemoaning UKIP not getting any MPs I'd have thought you'd be all for electoral reform.
No im not bemoaning it .. im just stating fact, there’s a difference hidetheelephants said:
Earthdweller said:
hidetheelephants said:
Given that you're bemoaning UKIP not getting any MPs I'd have thought you'd be all for electoral reform.
No im not bemoaning it .. im just stating fact, there’s a difference I also pointed out, in the same post that if the lib dems or greens thought they could win a majority they’d go silent on reform
Uh oh!
Own Jones leaves Labour.
https://labourlist.org/2024/03/owen-jones-labour-w...
His new platform
https://wedeservebetter.uk/
...could they become to Labour what Reform is to the Tories.
Own Jones leaves Labour.
https://labourlist.org/2024/03/owen-jones-labour-w...
His new platform
https://wedeservebetter.uk/
...could they become to Labour what Reform is to the Tories.
2xChevrons said:
BOR said:
There are plenty of us lefty scum who think the same as Owen Jones.
We will wake up to an election landslide that we have dreamed of, but instead of opening the champagne(the only thing our sort drink) we will just shrug and go back to sleep.
What will change?
Unless our wet-dream comes true, and Starmer is just presenting a New Tory face to mop up more of the electorate, then he is just a Continuation Rishi but with longer trousers.
Maybe not as inept and venal, but are there any signs, any signs at all that we can latch onto, that might give us a slight hope that there will be any attempts to rebalance the country economically and socially?
Any more hospitals? Any investment in schools ? Any pot-holes being filled in, even just some of the small ones?
It all looks about a real as the latest photos of Princess Kate.
Well said.We will wake up to an election landslide that we have dreamed of, but instead of opening the champagne(the only thing our sort drink) we will just shrug and go back to sleep.
What will change?
Unless our wet-dream comes true, and Starmer is just presenting a New Tory face to mop up more of the electorate, then he is just a Continuation Rishi but with longer trousers.
Maybe not as inept and venal, but are there any signs, any signs at all that we can latch onto, that might give us a slight hope that there will be any attempts to rebalance the country economically and socially?
Any more hospitals? Any investment in schools ? Any pot-holes being filled in, even just some of the small ones?
It all looks about a real as the latest photos of Princess Kate.
My long-term concern (in terms of politics, at least) is that Labour will land a gargantuan majority - a poll projection published today shows a 398-seat Labour majority - and will effectively do nothing with it out of a combination of genuinely not wanting to do anything due to ideological barrenness and paralytic fear of seemingly remotely tangibly progressive.
New Labour suffered from this and it sowed a lot of the discontent and disengagement that has driven a lot of modern British politics. Blair had a 179-seat majority in 1997 and while there were some reforms, institutional reshaping and programmes in the first term, they did not meet the appetite for real material change that drove a lot of that 1997 landslide, especially in the Labour heartlands still smarting from the economic ruin and social degradation of the Thatcher years.
What modernising, reformist drive New Labour had largely ran out of steam post-2001 as Blair became more concerned with foreign affairs and global liberalism and New Labour as a party kept running scared of Rupert Murdoch.
Labour shed millions of votes between 1997 and 2001 and kept shedding them through to 2010. Those voters who had felt that Labour had not used its landslide majority to deliver for them were ripe for picking up by other parties (UKIP, BNP, Greens) or, in most cases, simply disengaging. A lot of them didn't return to the voting booth until the EU Referendum, seen as the one unequivocal chance to deliver their verdict on how the 21st century had treated them thus far.
There is much less positivity and hope around Labour in 2024 than there was in 1997, and a majority (whether it's 100, 200 or 400 seats) will be mostly a sign of Conservative failure rather than a huge groundswell of Labourite feeling.
But I do worry that a 'more of the same' neoliberal Labour government under Starmer will be seen in many quarters to waste a majority and mandate, especially among those who either haven't really voted since 1997 or have not been able to elect a Labour government in the past. If Starmer carries on on the familiar course, inequalities will continue to widen, living costs will continue to pace ahead of wages, opportunities will continue to shrink, services will continue to degrade, living standards and quality of life will continue to slip and more and more people will get the feeling that they are being taken for everything they've got by the system that then broadcasts how things have never been better.
And if the thinking goes that a Labour government with a massive majority can't/won't change things, that leaves people ripe to turn to more dangerous and alluring fring parties with temptingly simple solutions. And if there isn't a progressive or radical left-wing organisation to receive them (as there usually isn't in British politics and which Starmer has put a great deal of effort into ensuring cannot exist in Labour) then they'll go to the fringe that is more prominent - the Reforms, NatCons, PopCons and others. Maybe even a fruitloopy populist Conservative Party if that's how they shake out after a defeat.
119 said:
Rich coming from him - the party that hates the Union Jack, the St George's Cross, the Proms, national anthems and the UK at large. Uh oh!
Keir Starmer unable to define a woman AGAIN
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/26845883/keir-starme...
Keir Starmer unable to define a woman AGAIN
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/26845883/keir-starme...
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff