UK smoking ban for those born after 2009

[highway]

I’d like high street coffee shops to ban people sitting outside, in the seating areas they provide, and smoking while they have a coffee/eat their sandwich.
In the warmer months, it’s nice to sit outside. Thst is spoilt of you have to endure inhaling the cigarette smoke of others.

[Dave200]

bodhi said:

Dave200 said:

The point of banning cigarette sales isn't to make 100% of smokers quit. It's to make all but the just hardcore quit, and that's where we need to be. The problems of the 60s and 70s that you mention are still being felt today, even though many current smokers weren't suffering from the horrible behaviour of the tobacco companies at the time. Smoking became socially acceptable, even "cool" or antiestablishment in many ways, because of the efforts of the tobacco companies back then.

So it's ideological nonsense with no chance of working and no basis in reality?

Good, glad we agree.

There's no reasoning with an addict.

[bodhi]

Dave200 said:

bodhi said:

Dave200 said:

The point of banning cigarette sales isn't to make 100% of smokers quit. It's to make all but the just hardcore quit, and that's where we need to be. The problems of the 60s and 70s that you mention are still being felt today, even though many current smokers weren't suffering from the horrible behaviour of the tobacco companies at the time. Smoking became socially acceptable, even "cool" or antiestablishment in many ways, because of the efforts of the tobacco companies back then.

So it's ideological nonsense with no chance of working and no basis in reality?

Good, glad we agree.

There's no reasoning with an addict.

I'd hardly call it reasonable to advocate leaving "addicts" in the throws of the black market for their "fix".

Even though that's been the basis of our drug policy for years

And we've seen how well that's gone....

[Oliver Hardy]

Condi said:

Oliver Hardy said:

I keep hearing this and I am not qualified to doubt this but comparing how much people smoked in the past and now and being told how harmful it is I do doubt it.

Which bit do you doubt? Smoking kills 50% of smokers from memory. Killed my grandad. Costs the NHS billions a year to treat people with entirely preventable diseases caused by cigarettes.

You don't see many young people smoking anyway, so the number it will actually affect (ie who want to buy cigs but can't, rather than the total population under the age of not being able to buy) will be very small.

How do you know it kills 50% of smokers and how do you know it killed your grandad?

[bodhi]

Oliver Hardy said:

Condi said:

Oliver Hardy said:

I keep hearing this and I am not qualified to doubt this but comparing how much people smoked in the past and now and being told how harmful it is I do doubt it.

Which bit do you doubt? Smoking kills 50% of smokers from memory. Killed my grandad. Costs the NHS billions a year to treat people with entirely preventable diseases caused by cigarettes.

You don't see many young people smoking anyway, so the number it will actually affect (ie who want to buy cigs but can't, rather than the total population under the age of not being able to buy) will be very small.

How do you know it kills 50% of smokers and how do you know it killed your grandad?

What he isn't telling you is the other 50% live forever.

I like those odds personally

[Dave200]

bodhi said:

Dave200 said:

bodhi said:

Dave200 said:

The point of banning cigarette sales isn't to make 100% of smokers quit. It's to make all but the just hardcore quit, and that's where we need to be. The problems of the 60s and 70s that you mention are still being felt today, even though many current smokers weren't suffering from the horrible behaviour of the tobacco companies at the time. Smoking became socially acceptable, even "cool" or antiestablishment in many ways, because of the efforts of the tobacco companies back then.

So it's ideological nonsense with no chance of working and no basis in reality?

Good, glad we agree.

There's no reasoning with an addict.

I'd hardly call it reasonable to advocate leaving "addicts" in the throws of the black market for their "fix".

Even though that's been the basis of our drug policy for years

And we've seen how well that's gone....

There are dozens of alternatives, including gum, patches, inhalers, vapes. If you can only think of the black market as the alternative, I think we know where the problem lies.

[bodhi]

Dave200 said:

There are dozens of alternatives, including gum, patches, inhalers, vapes. If you can only think of the black market as the alternative, I think we know where the problem lies.

Yes I think we can - the inability of prohibition enthusiasts to learn from history.

For eg - in Australia.

https://theconversation.com/australias-restrictive...

[HRL]

Oliver Hardy said:

Well good on you,

https://www.cdc.gov/marijuana/health-effects/menta...


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/03/01/quadru...

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-featu...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8144275/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/03/03/cannab...

Yay, reefer madness all over again. Kids shouldn’t be consuming it, the same as alcohol. Not sure any of the other links prove anything other than defence lawyers using it to reduce sentencing TBH.

Personally, the sooner tobacco is relegated to the history books the better. Cannabis however should be legalised, taxed and quality controlled.

[Dave200]

bodhi said:

Dave200 said:

There are dozens of alternatives, including gum, patches, inhalers, vapes. If you can only think of the black market as the alternative, I think we know where the problem lies.

Yes I think we can - the inability of prohibition enthusiasts to learn from history.

For eg - in Australia.

https://theconversation.com/australias-restrictive...

There was, as expected, a rise in people buying cigarettes from Dodgy Nige down the pub. Who could have predicted that?

[bodhi]

Dave200 said:

bodhi said:

Dave200 said:

There are dozens of alternatives, including gum, patches, inhalers, vapes. If you can only think of the black market as the alternative, I think we know where the problem lies.

Yes I think we can - the inability of prohibition enthusiasts to learn from history.

For eg - in Australia.

https://theconversation.com/australias-restrictive...

There was, as expected, a rise in people buying cigarettes from Dodgy Nige down the pub. Who could have predicted that?

Apparently not the prohibitionist morons who were implementing the law (similar to your idea) in the first place.

[Dave200]

bodhi said:

Dave200 said:

bodhi said:

Dave200 said:

There are dozens of alternatives, including gum, patches, inhalers, vapes. If you can only think of the black market as the alternative, I think we know where the problem lies.

Yes I think we can - the inability of prohibition enthusiasts to learn from history.

For eg - in Australia.

https://theconversation.com/australias-restrictive...

There was, as expected, a rise in people buying cigarettes from Dodgy Nige down the pub. Who could have predicted that?

Apparently not the prohibitionist morons who were implementing the law (similar to your idea) in the first place.

I can't imagine going in to bat for Big Tobacco and a product with an inextricable link to chronic illness and cancer. Addiction really is a pig.

[Lester H]

No great fan of smoking, but I do support individual liberty and choice. Also, have you noticed that “they”, in other words the government and the left- leaning press have already launched their campaigns against alcohol? Prohibition just creates more gangsters. It also puts prices up for the silent majority who are ‘ controlled’ drinkers.

Edited by Lester H on Tuesday 16th April 10:19

[Randy Winkman]

Lester H said:

No great fan of smoking, but I do support individual liberty and choice. Also, have you noticed that “they”, in other words the government and the left- leaning press have already launched their campaigns against alcohol? Prohibition just creates more gangsters.

Since you asked - no I've not noticed that.

[Dave200]

71% of adults in favour of the smoking ban. Here's hoping that parliament sees some sense and gets this one through.
https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1780157811575452...

[super7]

Personally I hate smoking, but I also appreciate everyones personal choice even if it is an addiction.... that includes Alcohol and junk food.

The answer is to make sure that the rest of us are not penalised for the additional healthcare that smokers are likely to require.

Two ways, either charge each smoker a 'smokers' fee when the end up in hospital (checked by CO levels), maybe £20 a day, or add an additional NI tax to tobacco which goes directly to the NHS. Maybe a £2 a pack. Same with Alcohol to be fair to drinkers! And the same with large bars of chocolate and XL Pizzas....

Then, I don't care what people decide to do.

[bodhi]

super7 said:

Personally I hate smoking, but I also appreciate everyones personal choice even if it is an addiction.... that includes Alcohol and junk food.

The answer is to make sure that the rest of us are not penalised for the additional healthcare that smokers are likely to require.

Two ways, either charge each smoker a 'smokers' fee when the end up in hospital (checked by CO levels), maybe £20 a day, or add an additional NI tax to tobacco which goes directly to the NHS. Maybe a £2 a pack. Same with Alcohol to be fair to drinkers! And the same with large bars of chocolate and XL Pizzas....

Then, I don't care what people decide to do.

Um, have you seen the amount of tax which goes onto a packet of cigarettes? We're already paying for our - and quite a few other people's healthcare as it is.

Anyway this is still terrible legislation, basically unworkable and based on some very dodgy figures - however part of me is looking forwards at some point way in the future to the prospect of 34 year olds hanging around outside newsagents waiting for a 35 year old to go inside and buy them a packet of Marlboro or Rizla.

However I'm sure it will be just as sucessful as other prohibitionist legislation has been in the past.

[Astacus]

I am not keen on banning stuff, but smoking is an addiction driven by profit, that causes harm both to those that do it and those that don’t, but are exposed to it. I should know. I have ever smoked but I did work as a barman when smoking was derigeur in pubs. I got lung cancer and had about half of one of my lungs removed.

The cost to our self destructing NHS of smoking is astronomical, not just in cancer but in all the other diseases that are either caused by it or exacerbated by it.

So I say if you want to smoke, then smoke but I would add £5 to each packet of fags to go directly to the NHS. Yes yes I know all about sporting injuries all the other whataboutery that comes up in these discussions and I don’t care. I’d rather be a hypocrite with a functioning NHS

[Portofino]

I can’t stand smoking & think anyone that does smoke is nuts, but I do believe in people having a choice in what they do with their lives (Within reason of course).

[super7]

bodhi said:

super7 said:

Personally I hate smoking, but I also appreciate everyones personal choice even if it is an addiction.... that includes Alcohol and junk food.

The answer is to make sure that the rest of us are not penalised for the additional healthcare that smokers are likely to require.

Two ways, either charge each smoker a 'smokers' fee when the end up in hospital (checked by CO levels), maybe £20 a day, or add an additional NI tax to tobacco which goes directly to the NHS. Maybe a £2 a pack. Same with Alcohol to be fair to drinkers! And the same with large bars of chocolate and XL Pizzas....

Then, I don't care what people decide to do.

Um, have you seen the amount of tax which goes onto a packet of cigarettes? We're already paying for our - and quite a few other people's healthcare as it is.

Anyway this is still terrible legislation, basically unworkable and based on some very dodgy figures - however part of me is looking forwards at some point way in the future to the prospect of 34 year olds hanging around outside newsagents waiting for a 35 year old to go inside and buy them a packet of Marlboro or Rizla.

However I'm sure it will be just as sucessful as other prohibitionist legislation has been in the past.

Yes.... i'm aware of the taxation, who isn't? What i'm suggesting is a levy that goes directly and transparently into the NHS. Whether it goes into general NHS use or into specific areas for addiction etc.

[bodhi]

super7 said:

bodhi said:

super7 said:

Personally I hate smoking, but I also appreciate everyones personal choice even if it is an addiction.... that includes Alcohol and junk food.

The answer is to make sure that the rest of us are not penalised for the additional healthcare that smokers are likely to require.

Two ways, either charge each smoker a 'smokers' fee when the end up in hospital (checked by CO levels), maybe £20 a day, or add an additional NI tax to tobacco which goes directly to the NHS. Maybe a £2 a pack. Same with Alcohol to be fair to drinkers! And the same with large bars of chocolate and XL Pizzas....

Then, I don't care what people decide to do.

Um, have you seen the amount of tax which goes onto a packet of cigarettes? We're already paying for our - and quite a few other people's healthcare as it is.

Anyway this is still terrible legislation, basically unworkable and based on some very dodgy figures - however part of me is looking forwards at some point way in the future to the prospect of 34 year olds hanging around outside newsagents waiting for a 35 year old to go inside and buy them a packet of Marlboro or Rizla.

However I'm sure it will be just as sucessful as other prohibitionist legislation has been in the past.

Yes.... i'm aware of the taxation, who isn't? What i'm suggesting is a levy that goes directly and transparently into the NHS. Whether it goes into general NHS use or into specific areas for addiction etc.

It already does.

HTH.