The Garrick Club

[mwstewart]

Randy Winkman said:

Exactly. That's the point of the story. If the UK was doing brilliantly, it wouldnt be so much of an issue. But that's not the case and we should be looking at the various reasons why.

Well that doesn't make any sense. The UK was at its peak when men ruled everything.

[ScotHill]

Ridgemont said:

The very concept of the ‘establishment’ is that it is a lacuna of influence that goes across all manner of professions (politics, judiciary, police <tho they have the Freemasons for that>, academia) which as Stewie observes may collude together in a world view and therefore act as an unofficial cohort of influence.

A lacuna is a gap or an unfilled space, is that the word you meant to use?

[Hants PHer]

There's been a fair bit of comment about the Garrick Club this morning (on LBC in my case) and I'm a little confused about what it is that the likes of Amelia Gentleman, journo at The Grauniad, are objecting to. Some say it's because it's men only, but when asked about the WI or women's clubs they backtrack and say "Oh no, it's because it's a gathering of influential men."

So is the suggestion that there should be no gatherings of influential people? Better cancel Davos then, or G7 meetings or similar. Of course, men's sheds would be OK because that's just the little people. When is a club deemed to be sufficiently elitist? Or is it OK if they're influential, but include influential women?

[Randy Winkman]

mwstewart said:

Randy Winkman said:

Exactly. That's the point of the story. If the UK was doing brilliantly, it wouldnt be so much of an issue. But that's not the case and we should be looking at the various reasons why.

Well that doesn't make any sense. The UK was at its peak when men ruled everything.

Empire stuff, do you mean? The world was an entirely different place then wasn't it?

For me, it's not really about men ruling everything though. It's about exclusivity, rather than being open to the best talent. I dont see how the former gets better results than the latter.

Anyway, he's quit the club now.

[Tommo87]

119 said:

bhstewie said:

This has been in the spotlight a little bit this week.

Garrick Club’s men-only members list reveals...

With Simon Case and the head of MI6 resigning their memberships today.

Quite literally the old boys network.

At least post a link that works, or did all the frothing cover your keyboard?

[Tommo87]

119 said:

Ridgemont said:

bhstewie said:

Ridgemont said:

Sorry don’t get it: membership of the Garrick is not an equality issue. It’s a gentleman’s club in the same way the WI is for females only. It’s only an optics issue because some people want that changed. Membership of the Garrick does not make you a member of a misogynistic organisation. The Garrick has a policy. Like the MCC it may change that policy but if ‘optics’ are the driver then it’s all about ‘not a good look’. Well that’s very much up to the members to change and I suspect with Stephen Fry a member I have no doubt that that may become a thing (even if I disagree).
As to the resignees I don’t have an enormous amount of time for the likes of Simon Case who strikes me as a modern day Vicar of Bray..

Nothing to do with misogyny.

Think power and cosy little deals in smoke filled rooms and all those kinds of cliches.

Well. Quite. Given the membership I suspect the vast majority would react with horror with the idea they are a male establishment clique of powermongers secretly directing the fate of the country.
I sometimes wish such a fantasy were true but as the last few years have shown I suspect the reality is somewhat different..

Plenty of non politicians are also members.

But hey, Tories.....grrrrrrr.

Obviously, getting one’s soapbox out to complain about the women’s institute being sexist wouldn’t have the same gravitas.

Besides, this story is a perfect opportunity to jump on the bandwagon and exercise ones need for self promotion.

[lauda]

mwstewart said:

Randy Winkman said:

Exactly. That's the point of the story. If the UK was doing brilliantly, it wouldnt be so much of an issue. But that's not the case and we should be looking at the various reasons why.

Well that doesn't make any sense. The UK was at its peak when men ruled everything.

Correlation does not equal causation.

[Wills2]

lauda said:

mwstewart said:

Randy Winkman said:

Exactly. That's the point of the story. If the UK was doing brilliantly, it wouldnt be so much of an issue. But that's not the case and we should be looking at the various reasons why.

Well that doesn't make any sense. The UK was at its peak when men ruled everything.

Correlation does not equal causation.

And that works both ways, attempting to blame the countries current malaise on a private club is, well pretty obtuse to say the least, if women want to gather together exclusively that's perfectly fine and therefore men should be accorded the same rights.

[andy_s]

I'm more worried that the head of one of our security services is concerned what the Guardian thinks, it's always been a quite neurotic paper, no different from The Mail in that respect really.

[NDA]

I was a member of two men only clubs in London and I remember them being poorer places for having to accept women. These clubs were both set up in the early 19th Century and it was a shame, I thought, to lose the ability to escape the fairer sex.

I have no issue with women only clubs such as the University Women's Club, The Allbright, The Sorority or any others. I would not wish to join and hope they have a fabulous time without any men.

I am not sure why some women are so desperate to join the Garrick, particularly when they are clearly not wanted by the majority of members.

[Southerner]

andy_s said:

I'm more worried that the head of one of our security services is concerned what the Guardian thinks, it's always been a quite neurotic paper, no different from The Mail in that respect really.

Indeed!

All this talk of dodgy deals being done in this club, through the fog of cigar smoke, shaping the destiny of the coutry; what on earth do people think goes on in the bars and dark corridors of Westminster?!

I’m really not sure how helpful it is all these chaps (who any vaguely intelligent person would fully expect to be members of this sort of establishment) chucking their memberships in like they’ve been ‘found out’; it just gives the impression that they’re all doing something wrong. Unless we’re missing something, that isn’t the case.

[lauda]

NDA said:

I was a member of two men only clubs in London and I remember them being poorer places for having to accept women. These clubs were both set up in the early 19th Century and it was a shame, I thought, to lose the ability to escape the fairer sex.

I have no issue with women only clubs such as the University Women's Club, The Allbright, The Sorority or any others. I would not wish to join and hope they have a fabulous time without any men.

I am not sure why some women are so desperate to join the Garrick, particularly when they are clearly not wanted by the majority of members.

Not strictly true. The majority voted in favour of admitting women but a 2/3rds majority was necessary to effect the change.

[S600BSB]

lauda said:

NDA said:

I was a member of two men only clubs in London and I remember them being poorer places for having to accept women. These clubs were both set up in the early 19th Century and it was a shame, I thought, to lose the ability to escape the fairer sex.

I have no issue with women only clubs such as the University Women's Club, The Allbright, The Sorority or any others. I would not wish to join and hope they have a fabulous time without any men.

I am not sure why some women are so desperate to join the Garrick, particularly when they are clearly not wanted by the majority of members.

Not strictly true. The majority voted in favour of admitting women but a 2/3rds majority was necessary to effect the change.

If only similar rules had applied to the Brexit referendum..

[bitchstewie]

andy_s said:

I'm more worried that the head of one of our security services is concerned what the Guardian thinks, it's always been a quite neurotic paper, no different from The Mail in that respect really.

It's not just that.

Head of civil service and MI6 chief resign Garrick membership

[Electro1980]

bhstewie said:

Nothing to do with misogyny.

Think power and cosy little deals in smoke filled rooms and all those kinds of cliches.

Bullst. There are plenty of places where wealthy elite meet in private. This is, and all of the campaign and fuss has made it quite clear, this is about the gender of the members and nothing else. There have been calls for any judges who are members to be banned from hearing rape and sexual assault cases.

This is absolutely about trying to get rid of men only spaces, and has been made quite clear that this is from a belief that men are dangerous and any time men want spaces of their own is dangerous.

[Kwackersaki]

S600BSB said:

lauda said:

NDA said:

I was a member of two men only clubs in London and I remember them being poorer places for having to accept women. These clubs were both set up in the early 19th Century and it was a shame, I thought, to lose the ability to escape the fairer sex.

I have no issue with women only clubs such as the University Women's Club, The Allbright, The Sorority or any others. I would not wish to join and hope they have a fabulous time without any men.

I am not sure why some women are so desperate to join the Garrick, particularly when they are clearly not wanted by the majority of members.

Not strictly true. The majority voted in favour of admitting women but a 2/3rds majority was necessary to effect the change.

If only similar rules had applied to the Brexit referendum..

BINGO!!! Well done for getting the Brexit angle into a thread about a men’s club.

[Oliver Hardy]

I would think that women only institutions must out number men only place by many, from the brownies/girl guides and to women business and private clubs,

[matrignano]

Let’s kill all the old fashioned members clubs as they all get pissed and more together at 5HS and Annabel’s anyway

[Lester H]

Is it any good, though?

[nikaiyo2]

Randy Winkman said:

Empire stuff, do you mean? The world was an entirely different place then wasn't it?

For me, it's not really about men ruling everything though. It's about exclusivity, rather than being open to the best talent. I dont see how the former gets better results than the latter.

Anyway, he's quit the club now.

I think you could argue that we are currently further away from being open to the best talent than we have been in a hundred years.

The best talent is often no longer the driving force behind opportunity. Filling quotas often seems most important.