Teacher fired for not using preferred pronouns!
Discussion
chrispmartha said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
Dagnir said:
This specific case aside...
Is there a way to refuse the ideology that isn't harassment?
Harassment of vulnerable people obviously isn't ok but how does one politely and respectfully stick to one's beliefs without it being harassment?
Genuine question.
It's a position many of us might find ourselves in. Don't want to be horrible but also shouldn't have to confirm to someone else's radical ideology.
It's very easy to completely avoid pronouns and first names and there are gender neutral pronouns. Clearly verbal slip ups will be made but I doubt that would he considered harassment.Is there a way to refuse the ideology that isn't harassment?
Harassment of vulnerable people obviously isn't ok but how does one politely and respectfully stick to one's beliefs without it being harassment?
Genuine question.
It's a position many of us might find ourselves in. Don't want to be horrible but also shouldn't have to confirm to someone else's radical ideology.
This guy went out of his way to be awkward. (Sounds like the Pupil did too.)
chrispmartha said:
Even if the pupil was being ‘awkward’ (teenager student being awkward is hardly an unusual thing) then it’s the teacher’s responsibility to deal with it in the correct manner, if they can’t, id suggest they are in the wrong job.
I'd you read the article, he was sacked.b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Call people what they want to be called.
If you don't agree with it find a way to speak to them without calling them what they have explicitly said they don't want to be called using terms they've explicitly asked you not to use.
It isn't that difficult.
You've kinda just said 'be polite and agree with it, it's not hard'...which seems to be ignoring my post a bit.If you don't agree with it find a way to speak to them without calling them what they have explicitly said they don't want to be called using terms they've explicitly asked you not to use.
It isn't that difficult.
Without conforming to the other person's ideology, how do you stay polite and reasonable?
Surnames could work I suppose but some would even that is insulting/dehumanising etc.
It's a tricky one...
Dagnir said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Call people what they want to be called.
If you don't agree with it find a way to speak to them without calling them what they have explicitly said they don't want to be called using terms they've explicitly asked you not to use.
It isn't that difficult.
You've kinda just said 'be polite and agree with it, it's not hard'...which seems to be ignoring my post a bit.If you don't agree with it find a way to speak to them without calling them what they have explicitly said they don't want to be called using terms they've explicitly asked you not to use.
It isn't that difficult.
Without conforming to the other person's ideology, how do you stay polite and reasonable?
Surnames could work I suppose but some would even that is insulting/dehumanising etc.
It's a tricky one...
BikeBikeBIke said:
chrispmartha said:
Even if the pupil was being ‘awkward’ (teenager student being awkward is hardly an unusual thing) then it’s the teacher’s responsibility to deal with it in the correct manner, if they can’t, id suggest they are in the wrong job.
I'd you read the article, he was sacked.my point was more a general one.
Dagnir said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Call people what they want to be called.
If you don't agree with it find a way to speak to them without calling them what they have explicitly said they don't want to be called using terms they've explicitly asked you not to use.
It isn't that difficult.
You've kinda just said 'be polite and agree with it, it's not hard'...which seems to be ignoring my post a bit.If you don't agree with it find a way to speak to them without calling them what they have explicitly said they don't want to be called using terms they've explicitly asked you not to use.
It isn't that difficult.
Without conforming to the other person's ideology, how do you stay polite and reasonable?
Surnames could work I suppose but some would even that is insulting/dehumanising etc.
It's a tricky one...
Gender can be anything so if someone wants to be addressed in a way suitable to their chosen gender, fine. It's really a matter of the English language whether pronouns should match to sex or gender and I've never seen any prouncement on that. (Which is mental. People are passing exams in English without knowing this!)
If a guy at work wanted to be long john silver and wanted me to address him as John, so what? We really don't use pronouns about acquaintances and work colleagues that much (at all?) and rarely names. Christ there are dozens of people at work I bump into and don't even know their names. And I literally don't know anyone's gender apart from the trans people! I don't even know my own gender how could I possibly know someone else's unless they told me which never happens except with trans people.
Dagnir said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Call people what they want to be called.
If you don't agree with it find a way to speak to them without calling them what they have explicitly said they don't want to be called using terms they've explicitly asked you not to use.
It isn't that difficult.
You've kinda just said 'be polite and agree with it, it's not hard'...which seems to be ignoring my post a bit.If you don't agree with it find a way to speak to them without calling them what they have explicitly said they don't want to be called using terms they've explicitly asked you not to use.
It isn't that difficult.
Without conforming to the other person's ideology, how do you stay polite and reasonable?
Surnames could work I suppose but some would even that is insulting/dehumanising etc.
It's a tricky one...
I disagree with many people's religious beliefs, I'm still polite to people who hold them, why wouldn't I be?
You don't have to agree with a person who wants to use a certain name or pronoun to be able to be polite to them, especially in a professional setting with an imbalance of power such as a teacher/pupil dynamic.
chrispmartha said:
Even if the pupil was being ‘awkward’ (teenager student being awkward is hardly an unusual thing) then it’s the teacher’s responsibility to deal with it in the correct manner, if they can’t, id suggest they are in the wrong job.
"Awkward" vs "pupil asserting their rights with a teacher not respecting their valid request"Historically teachers don't like to be challenged or questioned in my experience.
I had an issue with a KS2 teacher who was sending home homework that was incorrect and they swore that I was wrong, and so was the erratum that was published on the homework website...
BikeBikeBIke said:
Dagnir said:
This specific case aside...
Is there a way to refuse the ideology that isn't harassment?
Harassment of vulnerable people obviously isn't ok but how does one politely and respectfully stick to one's beliefs without it being harassment?
Genuine question.
It's a position many of us might find ourselves in. Don't want to be horrible but also shouldn't have to confirm to someone else's radical ideology.
It's very easy to completely avoid pronouns and first names and there are gender neutral pronouns. Clearly verbal slip ups will be made but I doubt that would be considered harassment.Is there a way to refuse the ideology that isn't harassment?
Harassment of vulnerable people obviously isn't ok but how does one politely and respectfully stick to one's beliefs without it being harassment?
Genuine question.
It's a position many of us might find ourselves in. Don't want to be horrible but also shouldn't have to confirm to someone else's radical ideology.
This guy went out of his way to be awkward. (Sounds like the Pupil did too.)
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Thursday 28th March 08:38
8.4L 154 said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
Dagnir said:
This specific case aside...
Is there a way to refuse the ideology that isn't harassment?
Harassment of vulnerable people obviously isn't ok but how does one politely and respectfully stick to one's beliefs without it being harassment?
Genuine question.
It's a position many of us might find ourselves in. Don't want to be horrible but also shouldn't have to confirm to someone else's radical ideology.
It's very easy to completely avoid pronouns and first names and there are gender neutral pronouns. Clearly verbal slip ups will be made but I doubt that would be considered harassment.Is there a way to refuse the ideology that isn't harassment?
Harassment of vulnerable people obviously isn't ok but how does one politely and respectfully stick to one's beliefs without it being harassment?
Genuine question.
It's a position many of us might find ourselves in. Don't want to be horrible but also shouldn't have to confirm to someone else's radical ideology.
This guy went out of his way to be awkward. (Sounds like the Pupil did too.)
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Thursday 28th March 08:38
It's irrelevant though, students are allowed to be awkward, Teachers, less so.
BikeBikeBIke said:
8.4L 154 said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
Dagnir said:
This specific case aside...
Is there a way to refuse the ideology that isn't harassment?
Harassment of vulnerable people obviously isn't ok but how does one politely and respectfully stick to one's beliefs without it being harassment?
Genuine question.
It's a position many of us might find ourselves in. Don't want to be horrible but also shouldn't have to confirm to someone else's radical ideology.
It's very easy to completely avoid pronouns and first names and there are gender neutral pronouns. Clearly verbal slip ups will be made but I doubt that would be considered harassment.Is there a way to refuse the ideology that isn't harassment?
Harassment of vulnerable people obviously isn't ok but how does one politely and respectfully stick to one's beliefs without it being harassment?
Genuine question.
It's a position many of us might find ourselves in. Don't want to be horrible but also shouldn't have to confirm to someone else's radical ideology.
This guy went out of his way to be awkward. (Sounds like the Pupil did too.)
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Thursday 28th March 08:38
It's irrelevant though, students are allowed to be awkward, Teachers, less so.
He was fired and DBS barred for using emotional manipulation of the child, he tried to dissuade his transition, using inappropriate medical claims, personal anecdote about suicide of an alcoholic family member and their use of NHS resources.
There was also a lot of other behaviour on social media and in diversity training which probably should have resulted in sanction but did not and only served as evidence his beliefs and free speech had not been restricted
Edited by 8.4L 154 on Thursday 28th March 09:25
8.4L 154 said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
8.4L 154 said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
Dagnir said:
This specific case aside...
Is there a way to refuse the ideology that isn't harassment?
Harassment of vulnerable people obviously isn't ok but how does one politely and respectfully stick to one's beliefs without it being harassment?
Genuine question.
It's a position many of us might find ourselves in. Don't want to be horrible but also shouldn't have to confirm to someone else's radical ideology.
It's very easy to completely avoid pronouns and first names and there are gender neutral pronouns. Clearly verbal slip ups will be made but I doubt that would be considered harassment.Is there a way to refuse the ideology that isn't harassment?
Harassment of vulnerable people obviously isn't ok but how does one politely and respectfully stick to one's beliefs without it being harassment?
Genuine question.
It's a position many of us might find ourselves in. Don't want to be horrible but also shouldn't have to confirm to someone else's radical ideology.
This guy went out of his way to be awkward. (Sounds like the Pupil did too.)
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Thursday 28th March 08:38
It's irrelevant though, students are allowed to be awkward, Teachers, less so.
He was fired and DBS barred for using emotional manipulation of the child, he tried to dissuade his transition, using inappropriate medical claims, personal anecdote about suicide of an alcoholic family member and their use of NHS resources.
There was also a lot of other behaviour on social media and in diversity training which probably should have resulted in sanction but did not and only served as evidence his beliefs and free speech had not been restricted
Edited by 8.4L 154 on Thursday 28th March 09:25
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Call people what they want to be called.
If you don't agree with it find a way to speak to them without calling them what they have explicitly said they don't want to be called using terms they've explicitly asked you not to use.
It isn't that difficult.
This. If you don't agree with it find a way to speak to them without calling them what they have explicitly said they don't want to be called using terms they've explicitly asked you not to use.
It isn't that difficult.
It's not difficult
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