Teacher fired for not using preferred pronouns!

[bitchstewie]

turbobloke said:

It'll all work out if teachers ignore guidelines - just teach maths and be polite.
/irony

You're utterly incapable of answering a simple question aren't you.

Slippery as an eel.

[dundarach]

Ridgemont said:

dundarach said:

Why didn't he just teacher him maths as he was employed to do.

If he objected to his pronoun, what's next, perhaps his race or religion?

Whatever you believe in private, keep it that way and just do your job, it's not hard really is it.

And this above is the problem.


He didn’t regard his pronoun as valid. Because he quite clearly doesn’t believe it is. And this is as per the Maya Forstater ruling a valid view. As per that ruling the idea of Gender identity is contested and you cannot go around Willy nilly sacking people because of their opposition to that view.
Racism and religion are entirely different issues entirely.
As per the post also in thread there is a concept called compelled speech.


Teacher him maths. Right.

Total nonsense

When I taught, I taught the subject to the children I had in front of me. I was responsible for ensuring their welfare, reporting concerns and most of all delivering the content of my subject.

The trap people are falling in to is sticking their noses and views into situations which are nothing to do with them.

If you're stupid enough to get sacked for this, you're better off not teaching kids.

What a pointless hill to have died upon!

[Leptons]

andyA700 said:

If that is correct, then the pupil was misgendering themselves.
You can't have it all ways.

The student is obviously very confused and troubled based on this one fact.

I do hope the poor teacher wins his case, decades of teaching (presumably) tarred by a nut job. Very sad.

[chrispmartha]

Leptons said:

andyA700 said:

If that is correct, then the pupil was misgendering themselves.
You can't have it all ways.

The student is obviously very confused and troubled based on this one fact.

I do hope the poor teacher wins his case, decades of teaching (presumably) tarred by a nut job. Very sad.

You don’t know either if the two people involved to make such judgments

[Vanden Saab]

8.4L 154 said:

Is nobody concerned about why there was a girls only math's test in the first place. Presumably with prizes as the children were clambering to participate.

Do girls need separate quizzes because of biological (dis)advantages in maths. Was there an equivalent boys test, had the school done a proper assessment on the impact of segregated testing and it's PSED towards other protected characteristics which might be indirectly discriminated against, particularly when they know one of those pc's most likely to be affected is present in the class.

Can segregated maths testing be justified or was it just another tool for harassment.

And this is why the whole gender bks craze will fall flat on its face. It is hilarious watching you go from gender is the most important thing in the world to why are we having gender related things at all.

[MickC]

Timothy Bucktu said:

Luckily the Socialist utopia of Scotland has enacted laws to see this exact sort of vile classroom violence result in jail time! And not a moment too soon I say...

Well, I'm glad Scotland doesn't need to encourage training and recruitment of teachers, as the threat of jail time is a real incentive to teach...

[Killboy]

Doesn't sound like a great teacher. This is probably working out better for everyone involved, especially those he had yet to "teach".

[Leptons]

chrispmartha said:

You don’t know either if the two people involved to make such judgments

I don’t need to because it’s there in black and white. You can’t tell everyone you’re a man, ask for male pronouns and then enter a women’s competition.

Good old logic and common sense.

[MickC]

Killboy said:

Doesn't sound like a great teacher. This is probably working out better for everyone involved, especially those he had yet to "teach".

You assume the next maths teacher they get (if any) can teach maths better. That's a 50/50.

[biggles330d]

Leptons said:

andyA700 said:

If that is correct, then the pupil was misgendering themselves.
You can't have it all ways.

The student is obviously very confused and troubled based on this one fact.

I do hope the poor teacher wins his case, decades of teaching (presumably) tarred by a nut job. Very sad.

At the risk of being flamed down, the O/H is a secondary head and is trying to navigate around this tricky issue every day. While she does believe there are genuine cases of young people that are biologically in the wrong body (if thats how you call it), the sheer number of young people flip flopping around this influenced by what they see around them leads her to believe that many cases are simply young people experimenting while growing up and going through puberty. Same with all the 'mental health' issues. She sees much of this as nothing more than normal fear, anxiety and uncertainty of the new and unfamiliar - exams etc. Part of growing up is leaning how to deal with these emotional issues and learning to be resilient. What she sees is a lot of young people now finding a name for this entirely natural norm, being stoked by stuff on social media to make it a much bigger 'thing' and finding that kids are passing through school with a belief its a treatable diagnosis but in fact are emerging into a tough world of work and life full of things to be anxious about but completely unprepared and un-resilliant to it.

She's far from a 'tough love' operator - very far. But even she steps back from it and wonders just how much is a passing fad and is pretty concerned society is churning out young adults who might be woefully equipped to deal with life generally. It's not something an individual school can fix and in some ways they are culpable for nurturing this fragility because of cases like the OP's post. The have to go along with it out of respect for the young person who is making these very significant life choices at a time when the state doesn't believe they are mature enough to drive / vote / marry...

[Killboy]

MickC said:

You assume the next maths teacher they get (if any) can teach maths better. That's a 50/50.

To who? Doesn't seem to have some this kid any good.

[sugerbear]

JagLover said:

chrispmartha said:

Who_Goes_Blue said:

andyA700 said:

sugerbear said:

irc said:

So the student wanted to be male but still be a girl for the purposes of entering competition. Logical.

They were eligible for the competition. That’s all you need to worry about.

If that is correct, then the pupil was misgendering themselves.
You can't have it all ways.

But that is exactly how they want it, and to be able to flip flop between sides whenever they want and for people to just go along with it.

Do ‘they’?

Do you think Trans people are an homogenous group of people?

Not addressed to me but "they" may refer to attention seeking teenage girls who have embraced the latest fad. Such as the notorious example of one who passed a note to their teacher each day of what their pronouns would be for that day.

Maybe they are but the job of a teacher is to teach not to get caught up in the battle. They wanted to be referred by a different name and be referred to as male. Why add fuel to the fire when your job is to teach?

I wonder if the teacher gets annoyed when he sees name like "Albert" being shortened to "Bert", I mean it isn't your birth name is it. I know of people that use their middle name, should the teacher start insisting they be called by their first name.

I also know of someone that was given the male "Lesley/Leslie" at birth because their father registered the birth and didn't know the difference. Is it the job of the teacher to enforce gender typical names on pupils.

As someone said earlier, it's a very strange hill to die on. I doubt he will be missed

[andyA700]

chrispmartha said:

Leptons said:

andyA700 said:

If that is correct, then the pupil was misgendering themselves.
You can't have it all ways.

The student is obviously very confused and troubled based on this one fact.

I do hope the poor teacher wins his case, decades of teaching (presumably) tarred by a nut job. Very sad.

You don’t know either if the two people involved to make such judgments

I think you are clutching at straws.
Why on earth would a girl who identifies as a boy, want to enter a girl's maths test? Surely that would be the last thing they would want if they genuinely identified as a boy?
It could of course be, that as we know the school had not informed the parents of the girl about her indentifying as a boy, that the parents would be expecting their maths prodigy to do well in the girl's maths test?
I really hope the teacher wins his case.

[chrispmartha]

Leptons said:

chrispmartha said:

You don’t know either if the two people involved to make such judgments

I don’t need to because it’s there in black and white. You can’t tell everyone you’re a man, ask for male pronouns and then enter a women’s competition.

Good old logic and common sense.

Why not, isn’t that exactly what gender critical people want?

Thought Biology was all that mattered.

Why are there sex based maths competitions anyway?

[chrispmartha]

andyA700 said:

chrispmartha said:

Leptons said:

andyA700 said:

If that is correct, then the pupil was misgendering themselves.
You can't have it all ways.

The student is obviously very confused and troubled based on this one fact.

I do hope the poor teacher wins his case, decades of teaching (presumably) tarred by a nut job. Very sad.

You don’t know either if the two people involved to make such judgments

I think you are clutching at straws.
Why on earth would a girl who identifies as a boy, want to enter a girl's maths test? Surely that would be the last thing they would want if they genuinely identified as a boy?
It could of course be, that as we know the school had not informed the parents of the girl about her indentifying as a boy, that the parents would be expecting their maths prodigy to do well in the girl's maths test?
I really hope the teacher wins his case.

Im not clutching at straws, im also not throwing around terms like Nut Job to people that i don’t know

[ecsrobin]

sugerbear said:

Maybe they are but the job of a teacher is to teach not to get caught up in the battle. They wanted to be referred by a different name and be referred to as male. Why add fuel to the fire when your job is to teach?

My wife’s school requires parental permission for changes of name. Possibly the same thing here?

[otolith]

8.4L 154 said:

Is nobody concerned about why there was a girls only math's test in the first place. Presumably with prizes as the children were clambering to participate.

Do girls need separate quizzes because of biological (dis)advantages in maths. Was there an equivalent boys test, had the school done a proper assessment on the impact of segregated testing and it's PSED towards other protected characteristics which might be indirectly discriminated against, particularly when they know one of those pc's most likely to be affected is present in the class.

Can segregated maths testing be justified or was it just another tool for harassment.

It was a national competition. Possibly this.

https://ukmt.org.uk/mathematical-olympiad-for-girl...

It's intended to increase participation by girls in maths competitions. There is a drive to get more girls to study maths generally, and to encourage more girls who study maths A level to go on to STEM degrees.

[GMT13]

chrispmartha said:

Leptons said:

chrispmartha said:

You don’t know either if the two people involved to make such judgments

I don’t need to because it’s there in black and white. You can’t tell everyone you’re a man, ask for male pronouns and then enter a women’s competition.

Good old logic and common sense.

Why not, isn’t that exactly what gender critical people want?

Thought Biology was all that mattered.

Why are there sex based maths competitions anyway?

Equally, you also cannot have it both ways.

Let's say the teacher fully supported her transition, referred to her as male, used her new male name and agreed that in all aspects she is now to be seen as male. But then for that reason didn't let her in to the female maths team, I suspect you'd still think him in the wrong?

Should the teacher have complied with the use of male pronouns AND put her in the girls maths comp?

[AndyAudi]

bhstewie said:

Rufus Stone said:

You appear to be ignoring the teachers version of events. Why is that?

Because his version of events is still pretty gross.

"I believe the student was immersed in a cult. I believe transgender ideology is a cult and should not be encouraged and supported in schools."

Tells me enough to form that view.

Why on earth would you use or write down a name someone has explicitly said they don't want you to use?

My reading of his version is he’s tried keeping his feelings to himself & doing his job & now he doesn’t have his job it’s all boiled to the surface - due to what he believes the absurdity of the situation he’s found himself in. (I can sympathise as i suspect many others do, that we often have to mask out true feeling & thoughts to protect others & remain neutral).

Using the name on the board, he possibly slipped up, finding himself on the spot between a rock & a hard place. Might’ve been reasonable in his mind that the student asking to be included in the female completion would’ve entered using her female name. He prob should’ve discussed with individual & used what they suggested for the comp entry, but how to do that? not write any name on board & then get called out for excluding them. Ask them in front of everyone causing embarrassment & putting pupil on the spot, or write the boys name up & create classroom havoc with the “sir why can Andrew enter the competition if they’re a boy?

Prob Should’ve done what he said he’d been doing & avoid using names on the board.

[JagLover]

andyA700 said:

I think you are clutching at straws.
Why on earth would a girl who identifies as a boy, want to enter a girl's maths test? Surely that would be the last thing they would want if they genuinely identified as a boy?
It could of course be, that as we know the school had not informed the parents of the girl about her indentifying as a boy, that the parents would be expecting their maths prodigy to do well in the girl's maths test?
I really hope the teacher wins his case.

Yes. We obviously don't know everything that has gone, but if the extent of "dead-naming" is the name being used to enter a Maths competition specifically restricted to girls then I am amazed that the school thought it was worth firing someone over.

More may emerge at the tribunal of course.