Michaela School - court case

[spikyone]

MrJuice said:

They could leave

But in the public sector reasonable adjustments can and should be made to accommodate the needs of those being served.

If kids were going for prayer and then getting drunk or smoking or whatever, you could understand why it would be stopped. Going to pray to the Lord of all creation (if that's what you believe) seems to be pretty harmless. If a minority are forcing religion on to others, sure definitely stop that. But for those that are willing participants, why the Suella Braverman would you want to stop them? Seems bizarre and against the spirit of public service.

Barbalsingh's statement yesterday showed her for what she is. A very big bigot

They don't need to pray. No one needs to pray. You may choose to pray, and if you do that in the privacy of your own home or place of worship, that's fine. The school is secular and doesn't want prayer during school time because religion creates division.

It's their school, their rules. The parents chose to send their child there whilst knowing those rules, and despite being so offended that they felt it necessary to bring a court case are apparently planning to send another child to the school. If they wanted their children to be able to follow their religion, faith schools are available.

And it's not bigotry if everyone is treated equally.

[Pitre]

MrJuice said:

It's a great way of beating down the people Suella and her mates love to beat down on.

If the rules are stupid, they should be challenged. What harm is prayer doing to the school or anyone associated with it? If it makes you nervous seeing a Muslim pray, I'd suggest you see your GP, urgently.

It's not a matter of what makes someone else nervous or who governs who. Anyway, ones GP is likely to be a Muslim themselves!

Why should an organisation change their policy because some entitled morons choose to go there and then don't accept the rules?

Just go somewhere where you like the rules. There's plenty of schools to choose from.

[s1962a]

spikyone said:

And it's not bigotry if everyone is treated equally.

Agree

[Chamon_Lee]

JagLover said:

gregs656 said:

Surprised how many posters think people should just put up with what ever rules even if they don't agree with them.

I think people were more concerned about the waste of public money in bringing the case and defending it. If the pupil in question doesn't want to abide by the rules they can leave for a school that is more amenable, so no need to "put up" with them.

Why should they leave? Either we are inclusive or we aren't, so we again I will say, we can support kids wants to act like cats, we can support the kids acting like brats, no smoke who have all sorts of other tendencies but when it comes to a child praying during their lunch break this isnt allowed? Why? What is the shocking disgusting reason this isn't allowed but the next child can bully, pretend to be a cat, on transition in to a boy or a girl.

Its not as if our inclusive society has multi faith public schools and believe you me its not out of not trying!!

[chemistry]

MrJuice said:

They could leave

But in the public sector reasonable adjustments can and should be made to accommodate the needs of those being served.

If kids were going for prayer and then getting drunk or smoking or whatever, you could understand why it would be stopped. Going to pray to the Lord of all creation (if that's what you believe) seems to be pretty harmless. If a minority are forcing religion on to others, sure definitely stop that. But for those that are willing participants, why the Suella Braverman would you want to stop them? Seems bizarre and against the spirit of public service.

Barbalsingh's statement yesterday showed her for what she is. A very big bigot

I disagree. Birbalsingh's position is, I believe that the kids at her school, including the one who complained, were free to pray in the playground at breaktime etc., but the school didn't have space for a prayer room (or prayer rooms). In addition, the school operates a multicultural approach where each child is expected to make some degree of compromise for the good of the whole. Everyone attending the school knows this before they arrive.

I think she's a fine head who runs a great school that does well for a wide range of under privileged kids, albeit not one who's ethos suits everyone.

[JagLover]

Randy Winkman said:

Does take me by surprise to hear that it's sung though. I thought we'd left that sort of stuff behind in the 1970s?

I think this is an old fashioned school in many respects. Strict discipline and signing of national anthem included.

From what I understand they have many disadvantaged pupils and seem to be doing well, so whatever works for them basically. Parents will have a choice of other schools if they want a different environment for their children.

[Cheburator mk2]

MrJuice said:

It's a great way of beating down the people Suella and her mates love to beat down on.

If the rules are stupid, they should be challenged. What harm is prayer doing to the school or anyone associated with it? If it makes you nervous seeing a Muslim pray, I'd suggest you see your GP, urgently.

Them the rules. It's secular. The parents knew it was secular and that no prayers were allowed - neither Christian, not Muslim, nor Hare-Krishna chants as far as I am aware. And yet they chose to send their daughter there, and waste public money challenging the rules.

Let me share an analogy with you - the parents are the same as the s who bought houses backing onto my local Brands Hatch and campaigned to have the race track silenced...

[fly by wire]

Countdown said:

fly by wire said:

There is one principle here, the only one.

Either fit in or fk off.

If the rules here in this country aren't to your liking then go and live somewhere that is to your liking.

Quite simple really.

It's always surprising how hypocritical people can be.

"Others" should FI or FO but they personally should be free to ignore any rules or laws they don't like.

Care to explain this CD?

[gregs656]

Pitre said:

If you voluntarily join an organisation then you either follow their rules or go elsewhere. Don't go there then bleat about their rules.

Simples.

So schools who equally subject their students to sharia law would be fine by you?

[MrJuice]

Did anyone ask the kids if they want to sing the national anthem FFS? The kids are the future. Surely they should be able to choose if they want to sing it or not? Why force that down their throat?

Muslim GPs cannot be impartial. Some bigot on PH said so. You should see your GP, Muslim or not. You need help.

There are indeed plenty of schools. I'm sure the parents chose maichela for good reasons. And they should absolutely be free to challenge stupid bigoted rules

Next someone will suggest Suella was not bigoted because she said the whole million people at the anti genocide demonstration were all hating on Israel and all anti semetic

[Slowboathome]

Some laughable replies on here.

It's a privately-run school which makes its ethos completely clear. Parent decides it doesn't like the ethos, takes school to court, loses and then says they want to send their other kid there.

[Pitre]

gregs656 said:

Pitre said:

If you voluntarily join an organisation then you either follow their rules or go elsewhere. Don't go there then bleat about their rules.

Simples.

So schools who equally subject their students to sharia law would be fine by you?

If you go there voluntarily and you're in a country that adopts/accepts Sharia law then fine. The UK doesn't (yet).

Edited by Pitre on Wednesday 17th April 16:40

[Slowboathome]

MrJuice said:

Were kids leaving class to pray?

I've always prayed in my own time (lunch, break etc).

Interesting that the school is veggie. Presumably as a sacrifice to make the veggies feel comfortable. Tolerance and all that. But high achieving school kids cannot pray at school

But they can say a prayer for the king each day. I understand the national anthem is sung there daily.

Barbalsingh must be getting tips from Braverman who used to be a governor at the school

If you don't like the ethos don't send your kids there.

[Chamon_Lee]

spikyone said:

MrJuice said:

They could leave

But in the public sector reasonable adjustments can and should be made to accommodate the needs of those being served.

If kids were going for prayer and then getting drunk or smoking or whatever, you could understand why it would be stopped. Going to pray to the Lord of all creation (if that's what you believe) seems to be pretty harmless. If a minority are forcing religion on to others, sure definitely stop that. But for those that are willing participants, why the Suella Braverman would you want to stop them? Seems bizarre and against the spirit of public service.

Barbalsingh's statement yesterday showed her for what she is. A very big bigot

They don't need to pray. No one needs to pray. You may choose to pray, and if you do that in the privacy of your own home or place of worship, that's fine. The school is secular and doesn't want prayer during school time because religion creates division.

It's their school, their rules. The parents chose to send their child there whilst knowing those rules, and despite being so offended that they felt it necessary to bring a court case are apparently planning to send another child to the school. If they wanted their children to be able to follow their religion, faith schools are available.

And it's not bigotry if everyone is treated equally.

Religion doesn't create a division. Its people with the inability to co exist.
You are basically chopping and choosing what you feel is inclusive and ok and what isn't ok and this is exactly what makes people like myself angry.

Outrageous display of the blind and a double standard.

[Slowboathome]

MrJuice said:

They could leave

But in the public sector reasonable adjustments can and should be made to accommodate the needs of those being served.

Being Muslim isn't a disability, mate.

[gregs656]

Pitre said:

gregs656 said:

Pitre said:

If you voluntarily join an organisation then you either follow their rules or go elsewhere. Don't go there then bleat about their rules.

Simples.

So schools who equally subject their students to sharia law would be fine by you?

If you're in a country that adopts/accepts Sharia law then fine. The UK doesn't.

So, no?

This was challenge that was taken forward to decide whether the rules set by the school were legally acceptable.

How do you think we generated the case law, the legal and ethical standards, the social standards etc we have today without people challenging the rules?

Nothing would change if people didn't challenge the rules.

[Vanden Saab]

Slowboathome said:

Some laughable replies on here.

It's a privately-run school which makes its ethos completely clear. Parent decides it doesn't like the ethos, takes school to court, loses and then says they want to send their other kid there.

It is not private and the reason prayers were stopped is because the instigators were pressurising other pupils to join them.

[Pitre]

gregs656 said:

Pitre said:

gregs656 said:

Pitre said:

If you voluntarily join an organisation then you either follow their rules or go elsewhere. Don't go there then bleat about their rules.

Simples.

So schools who equally subject their students to sharia law would be fine by you?

If you're in a country that adopts/accepts Sharia law then fine. The UK doesn't.

So, no?

This was challenge that was taken forward to decide whether the rules set by the school were legally acceptable.

How do you think we generated the case law, the legal and ethical standards, the social standards etc we have today without people challenging the rules?

Nothing would change if people didn't challenge the rules.

You asked if I would accept Sharia law if I went to a school where that law was enforced and I said I would if I had gone there voluntarily and the country accepted Sharia law. But I think you might just be being a little obtuse as the two situations aren't really comparable, are they.

[spikyone]

Chamon_Lee said:

Religion doesn't create a division. Its people with the inability to co exist.
You are basically chopping and choosing what you feel is inclusive and ok and what isn't ok and this is exactly what makes people like myself angry.

Outrageous display of the blind and a double standard.

Religion absolutely creates a division between those who believe and those who don't, and between those who believe in different religions. It needlessly separates people into tribes based on irrational, unprovable beliefs and their associated traditions, and applies labels to people. Separation and labelling exemplify that division.

It gives "people with the inability to coexist" a reason to disagree with each other, violently so throughout history. We see violent clashes between Catholics and Protestants and they basically follow the same religion; likewise Shia and Sunni Muslims. We see Hindus enacting extreme violence towards Muslims in India. We see Muslims attacking non-Muslims in the western world.

There are of course peaceful followers of all religions and the extremists are in most cases a small minority. But it's clear as day that religion is an enormous source of division.

[Chamon_Lee]

Vanden Saab said:

Slowboathome said:

Some laughable replies on here.

It's a privately-run school which makes its ethos completely clear. Parent decides it doesn't like the ethos, takes school to court, loses and then says they want to send their other kid there.

It is not private and the reason prayers were stopped is because the instigators were pressurising other pupils to join them.

Ok by your very argument that's what the LGBT movement does too. lets get rid of that too from all schools.