Unemployment benefits removed after 12 months

[Biggy Stardust]

eharding said:

Malachi 2:3 (KJV)

Warnings & threats against priests for the way in which they worship that god?

You sound like Rimmer quoting Space Corps directives.

[eharding]

Biggy Stardust said:

eharding said:

Malachi 2:3 (KJV)

Warnings & threats against priests for the way in which they worship that god?

You sound like Rimmer quoting Space Corps directives.

You need the King James Version, not the New Smeghead Illustrated Simplified Edition.

[Biggy Stardust]

eharding said:

You need the King James Version, not the New Smeghead Illustrated Simplified Edition.

OK. Still not seeing the relevance to unemployment benefits.

[eharding]

Biggy Stardust said:

eharding said:

You need the King James Version, not the New Smeghead Illustrated Simplified Edition.

OK. Still not seeing the relevance to unemployment benefits.

The closest I can find that the Bible gets to using the term shthead, which sums up the mindset that came up with this blatant piece of election gammoneering.

[Derek Smith]

With any luck, if they do stop benefits after an arbitrary period, it will hurt a lot of ex tory MPs.

[andyA700]

Oliver Hardy said:

Pointed out this in other threads, problem is there is zero support for helping people back into work.

I have a degree in IT and a HGV licence yet there was no help to get with retraining. Not having driven a HGV for 15 years I asked for £380 to do a driving reassessment, which was to expensive

Back in 2020, my new business (photography) went down the pan, for obvious reasons. Because the business was less than three years old, I couldn't get the business grant to keep me going. For a couple of months, the DWP lied to me, saying that previously self employed couldn't claim any benefits, then they relented and my wife and I received the princely sum of just under £400 per month to keep us going.

[surveyor]

Derek Smith said:

With any luck, if they do stop benefits after an arbitrary period, it will hurt a lot of ex tory MPs.

I was a little shocked earlier. Mate who is a reasonable high earner and been employed all his life got given the boot around 6 months ago. He's struggling a little to get back in, but with various irons in the fire. Often though corporate firms, and it's taking some time to go through all the hoops, only on the last one to lose out to an internal candidate.

After 6 months they have pulled his Unemployment Benefit and it's down to Universal Credit (which he won't get as his wife earns reasonably well (as a nurse mind you - not a minted lawyer etc!)). I think many of us who are employed misunderstand the help we will get from the state if it comes to it.

I think this specific policy on this thread, is to withdraw sick pay, such as it is, if some Capita robot says you can work.

[MKnight702]

Rivenink said:

Should someone be forced into work through this scheme if it would cause their income to drop and make it unaffordable for them to keep a roof over their heads, keep their home warm, and provide food for themselves and their dependents?

This is the main thing that needs to be fixed in my opinion. You should never be worse off by working than not.

[Tom8]

Key problem is we keep giving them the excuses to claim "sickness". The bad back brigade have been replaced by the "it's my mental health" brigade.

There is absolutely no reason why someone should be out of work for 12 months or more, the only thing stopping them would be their willingness. If there were no benefits it would be remarkable how many people suddenly make a recovery from their "illness". There are of course those who are unable to work and who should continue to be supported.

Regarding benefits I would like to see a move to a european style system where you get higher benefits based on your last income for a limited period of time, so more of an insurance.

[valiant]

Tom8 said:

Key problem is we keep giving them the excuses to claim "sickness". The bad back brigade have been replaced by the "it's my mental health" brigade.

There is absolutely no reason why someone should be out of work for 12 months or more, the only thing stopping them would be their willingness. If there were no benefits it would be remarkable how many people suddenly make a recovery from their "illness". There are of course those who are unable to work and who should continue to be supported.

Regarding benefits I would like to see a move to a european style system where you get higher benefits based on your last income for a limited period of time, so more of an insurance.

Contradicted yourself there. Which is it?

[spookly]

Tom8 said:

Key problem is we keep giving them the excuses to claim "sickness". The bad back brigade have been replaced by the "it's my mental health" brigade.

There is absolutely no reason why someone should be out of work for 12 months or more, the only thing stopping them would be their willingness. If there were no benefits it would be remarkable how many people suddenly make a recovery from their "illness". There are of course those who are unable to work and who should continue to be supported.

Regarding benefits I would like to see a move to a european style system where you get higher benefits based on your last income for a limited period of time, so more of an insurance.

I agree.
I have never claimed any benefits in my life, except child benefit before it was yanked away.

If I was out of work then there is no way I could continue current financial commitments on benefits even for a short time. Despite paying eye watering taxes most of my career, all I would be entitled to is the same amount as someone that has never contributed a penny.
It's a lifestyle choice for some, but no kind of safety net for anyone with higher earnings, who ironically are the ones actually footing the bill.

I have enough money stashed away to cover a year or two out of work. Even then I'd still get a McJob until I could find something else rather than claim benefits. Few people have a genuine excuse not to be working.

I'd fully support a European type system.

[Previous]

spookly said:

Tom8 said:

Key problem is we keep giving them the excuses to claim "sickness". The bad back brigade have been replaced by the "it's my mental health" brigade.

There is absolutely no reason why someone should be out of work for 12 months or more, the only thing stopping them would be their willingness. If there were no benefits it would be remarkable how many people suddenly make a recovery from their "illness". There are of course those who are unable to work and who should continue to be supported.

Regarding benefits I would like to see a move to a european style system where you get higher benefits based on your last income for a limited period of time, so more of an insurance.

I agree.
I have never claimed any benefits in my life, except child benefit before it was yanked away.

If I was out of work then there is no way I could continue current financial commitments on benefits even for a short time. Despite paying eye watering taxes most of my career, all I would be entitled to is the same amount as someone that has never contributed a penny.
It's a lifestyle choice for some, but no kind of safety net for anyone with higher earnings, who ironically are the ones actually footing the bill.

I have enough money stashed away to cover a year or two out of work. Even then I'd still get a McJob until I could find something else rather than claim benefits. Few people have a genuine excuse not to be working.

I'd fully support a European type system.

The European system isn't without its challenges. Those affected have little incentive to take the next best job and will often wait. As the companies take some of the burden for covering the cost, companies can be reluctant to make new roles and take new hires in case of longer term liabilities, which has a suppressing effect on growth.

There should be something though. Even if was just mortgage interest payments up to the equivalent level of housing benefit for a capped period - simply to avoid the spiralling costs to the taxpayer of ex-employees being evicted and requiring additional social support from other services.

[Roofless Toothless]

eharding said:

Biggy Stardust said:

2 Thessalonians 3:10

Malachi 2:3 (KJV)

Heart Of Midlothian 4

[2xChevrons]

Previous said:

The European system isn't without its challenges. Those affected have little incentive to take the next best job and will often wait. As the companies take some of the burden for covering the cost, companies can be reluctant to make new roles and take new hires in case of longer term liabilities, which has a suppressing effect on growth.

No system is perfect or without downsides, but this list of 'challenges' is very revealing. Especially when you consider productivity, which we're all told is now the big national issue that we have to be aware of.

"Those affected have little incentive to take the next best job" - that's as much a strength than a flaw. If you have been educated, trained, skilled and experienced in a particular industry or line of work, it's better for both you and the economy that you are able to be selective, bide your time and slot back into a similar role when it becomes available. The UK system all-but punishes people for doing that so, you end up with graduates working behind coffee bars and PhDs driving Ocado vans. That's not good for productivity or the national 'return on investment'. The DWP/Jobcentre is appalling at actually fitting people to jobs where they're most suited, because the top-down priority is just getting the 'scroungers' off benefits and into 'work'. The system doesn't care how useful or relevant or over-qualified you are. Not to mention the positive effect it has on worker empowerment if you have the means to be picky about jobs rather than providing business with a pool of labour with no other option to exploit.

"As the companies take some of the burden for covering the cost, companies can be reluctant to make new roles and take new hires in case of longer term liabilities" - Maybe. But those factors that discourage companies to employ people also encourage them to invest in mechanisation, automation and technology so they can produce output with fewer people and the most output from the people they do have. Hence their economies' higher productivity. I'm also not sure that the European system is conclusively a brake on growth, at least any more than any UK policy has been in the same field.

The generic European welfare system of a solid, irremovable baseline amount (often constitutionally enforced) with individual contributory amounts on top (usually related to salary), with free education and training, is a far more rational and equitable system than the UK's expensive and largely ineffective system of denying welfare to anyone with two sticks to rub together and setting up a byzantine series of hoops for them to jump through so they can be pushed off the system (job done!) for the slightest transgression while offering no effective support.

[119]

Seems like this isn’t going to go away.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0ry09d50wo


And I will go against the grain here, and say on the face of it, I am not sure why Mr Harris can't at least try a couple of different roles, even from home.

Edited by 119 on Monday 29th April 11:35

[z4RRSchris]

I've tried to claim PIP as I fked my foot, when you go through the claim form some of the "mental health" questions are laughable.

much easier to get it for mental health than for actual physical problems.

[Donbot]

z4RRSchris said:

I've tried to claim PIP as I fked my foot, when you go through the claim form some of the "mental health" questions are laughable.

much easier to get it for mental health than for actual physical problems.

But from an employers point of view would you prefer to employ someone who has broken their foot which won't take long to heal, and might not even interfere with the job if it is desk based? Or take someone on with mental health problems?

I'm not saying that people don't play the system, but a broken foot is nothing compared to a long term depressive/anxiety etc disorder.

[z4RRSchris]

sorry i meant broken foot leading to long term (forever) implications.

I cant walk without pain.

claiming for PIP was the easiest path to getting a blue badge, i don't need the £40 a week or whatever it is.

[cheesejunkie]

Of course people play the system. But the system encourages them to play it.

Unemployment benefits are not going to be removed after 12 months. The system is not going to allow a family to starve. So get used to another fiddle, because if this policy comes in I guarantee you that's what's going to happen. There are some who are very motivated by keeping it complicated.

They'll be renamed to something else and another bunch of fudge will occur.

Cynic, moi? No, just a realist and people salivating about people on benefits having no money are going to be very disappointed.

[bitchstewie]

119 said:

Seems like this isn’t going to go away.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn0ry09d50wo


And I will go against the grain here, and say on the face of it, I am not sure why Mr Harris can't at least try a couple of different roles, even from home.

I think and I'm happy to be corrected that it's the lack of a middle ground in terms of support from whatever Government and NHS type agencies this stuff falls under that's the issue isn't it?

i.e. the options seem to be "here is your PIP" or "go get a job" when ideally there would be a third option that would help promptly with any ongoing mental health care requirements he may have along the path to being reintroduced back into the workplace.

And even then I'm sure there will be some people for whom work simply isn't possible and no amount of proper care or being told to "man up" will make it possible.

I know it's not the same thing but there were schemes like Remploy (I think that's the spelling) and more recently this one.

Help for disabled people in England and Wales to get jobs is axed amid benefits crackdown

This lot just plain don't give a fk though it's all about punching down.