So are Landlords finished?

[Louis Balfour]

98elise said:

Hugo Stiglitz said:

White-Noise said:

NerveAgent said:

Biggy Stardust said:

NerveAgent said:

Careful, landlords are a very fragile people.

Many, sick of the incessant attacks, have got out of BTL. This has caused shortages & rent rises. Ireland is several years ahead of us on this path and is now beginning to realise the consequences of their actions against landlords.

The solution for UK is not to continue the attacks.

So many attacks

It's a serious problem. Landlords are moving out of the rental market increasingly due to the changes being made and its helping push rents up. Folks can't afford to rent let alone buy. A lot of people are not laughing on both sides.

Eh? When monthly rent costs way above what a mortgage that's not 'poor landlords'. Around my area houses sell very quickly then appear on the rental market at crazy prices.

First time buyers can't get a look in.

Poor landlords hey. Let's think about their portfolios.

What area out of interest?

In his mind.

[98elise]

Louis Balfour said:

98elise said:

Hugo Stiglitz said:

White-Noise said:

NerveAgent said:

Biggy Stardust said:

NerveAgent said:

Careful, landlords are a very fragile people.

Many, sick of the incessant attacks, have got out of BTL. This has caused shortages & rent rises. Ireland is several years ahead of us on this path and is now beginning to realise the consequences of their actions against landlords.

The solution for UK is not to continue the attacks.

So many attacks

It's a serious problem. Landlords are moving out of the rental market increasingly due to the changes being made and its helping push rents up. Folks can't afford to rent let alone buy. A lot of people are not laughing on both sides.

Eh? When monthly rent costs way above what a mortgage that's not 'poor landlords'. Around my area houses sell very quickly then appear on the rental market at crazy prices.

First time buyers can't get a look in.

Poor landlords hey. Let's think about their portfolios.

What area out of interest?

In his mind.

His profile says London, which averages about 4% (so less than mortgage interest let alone repayment). I was wondering what area of london has rents way above that.

[Mars]

Biggy Stardust said:

I owned 10, then the government started moving the goalposts. It went from being decent business to being incredibly high risk for very little money. I made money but I'm now seeing it being not worth the risk & aggravation. As do many.

I had 5 and feel exactly the same as you. I sold up for unrelated reasons but even though I could restart my portfolio now if I wanted to, I don't.

All the rent I earned during my time as a LL was swallowed up in costs. All of it. I did OK on the sales profit at the end but you only need a couple of houses needing a roof, a boiler, a new kitchen, repair damage, etc and any income has gone.

[NRS]

Mars said:

Biggy Stardust said:

I owned 10, then the government started moving the goalposts. It went from being decent business to being incredibly high risk for very little money. I made money but I'm now seeing it being not worth the risk & aggravation. As do many.

I had 5 and feel exactly the same as you. I sold up for unrelated reasons but even though I could restart my portfolio now if I wanted to, I don't.

All the rent I earned during my time as a LL was swallowed up in costs. All of it. I did OK on the sales profit at the end but you only need a couple of houses needing a roof, a boiler, a new kitchen, repair damage, etc and any income has gone.

But that's the point, on the overall cost over a few decades of low interest rates you're likely to have done very well for many years, either on the rental and/or the house price increase. I'd hazard a guess your "OK" sales profit is probably multiple years salary for many people.

[Xenoous]

I have no sympathy for landlords. The housing system is broken and solely relies on greed.
I firmly believe noone should be able to own more than 2 houses. I also firmly believe foreign investors should never be allowed to purchase UK houses.

A place to live and call home should not be used as an excuse to go and make a very comfortable living.

[LowTread]

100% agree.

[andy43]

Xenoous said:

I have no sympathy for landlords. The housing system is broken and solely relies on greed.
I firmly believe noone should be able to own more than 2 houses. I also firmly believe foreign investors should never be allowed to purchase UK houses.

A place to live and call home should not be used as an excuse to go and make a very comfortable living.

Two houses? Capitalist!

[98elise]

NRS said:

Mars said:

Biggy Stardust said:

I owned 10, then the government started moving the goalposts. It went from being decent business to being incredibly high risk for very little money. I made money but I'm now seeing it being not worth the risk & aggravation. As do many.

I had 5 and feel exactly the same as you. I sold up for unrelated reasons but even though I could restart my portfolio now if I wanted to, I don't.

All the rent I earned during my time as a LL was swallowed up in costs. All of it. I did OK on the sales profit at the end but you only need a couple of houses needing a roof, a boiler, a new kitchen, repair damage, etc and any income has gone.

But that's the point, on the overall cost over a few decades of low interest rates you're likely to have done very well for many years, either on the rental and/or the house price increase. I'd hazard a guess your "OK" sales profit is probably multiple years salary for many people.

Given 5 properties would likely be £1m+ invested, you would hope that it would net more then a couple of years salary over a couple of decades.

£1m @ 5% would be 50k a year ignoring compounding.

[98elise]

Xenoous said:

I have no sympathy for landlords. The housing system is broken and solely relies on greed.
I firmly believe noone should be able to own more than 2 houses. I also firmly believe foreign investors should never be allowed to purchase UK houses.

A place to live and call home should not be used as an excuse to go and make a very comfortable living.

All investment relies on greed. What things do you invest in (pension isas savings etc) and is that ok in your eyes?

How do you feel about council and housing association landlords. Just 2 house for them as well?

[nickfrog]

andy43 said:

Two houses? Capitalist!

Only two? Better make them very large!

Also. I love the "bloody foreigners" bit. Good job we are out of the EU as this would have been impossible to implement.

[911Spanker]

98elise said:

Xenoous said:

I have no sympathy for landlords. The housing system is broken and solely relies on greed.
I firmly believe noone should be able to own more than 2 houses. I also firmly believe foreign investors should never be allowed to purchase UK houses.

A place to live and call home should not be used as an excuse to go and make a very comfortable living.

All investment relies on greed. What things do you invest in (pension isas savings etc) and is that ok in your eyes?

How do you feel about council and housing association landlords. Just 2 house for them as well?

Exactly.

People shouldn't work hard and earn a decent wage. Just create a generation of no hopers...

Making money is good - everyone can do it and they should know that.

[andy43]

nickfrog said:

andy43 said:

Two houses? Capitalist!

Only two? Better make them very large!

Also. I love the "bloody foreigners" bit. Good job we are out of the EU as this would have been impossible to implement.

Large would be far too unenvironmentally friendly but two makes total sense - obviously a country seat isn’t going to work without a paedo terre in town for shopping and theatres.

[Xenoous]

I do make money, I own my own home. I have a growing family and generally speaking, not doing too badly. Even so, I won't be purchasing a second home to rent out, because it's not right.

Go make as much money as you can, making it buying properties and hiking rent shouldn't be allowed.

Councils and housing associations provide a roof over people's heads for a considerably lesser sum per month than you would charge, so that comparison is dumb.

[nickfrog]

Xenoous said:

I do make money, I own my own home. I have a growing family and generally speaking, not doing too badly. Even so, I won't be purchasing a second home to rent out, because it's not right.

Go make as much money as you can, making it buying properties and hiking rent shouldn't be allowed.

Councils and housing associations provide a roof over people's heads for a considerably lesser sum per month than you would charge, so that comparison is dumb.

Yes and who needs mobility?

[andy43]

Xenoous said:

I do make money, I own my own home. I have a growing family and generally speaking, not doing too badly. Even so, I won't be purchasing a second home to rent out, because it's not right.

Go make as much money as you can, making it buying properties and hiking rent shouldn't be allowed.

Councils and housing associations provide a roof over people's heads for a considerably lesser sum per month than you would charge, so that comparison is dumb.

Define landlord - is shared ownership ok?
What’s your stance on ethical and non ethical investments?
BTL is an investment class. Some won’t agree with it, some will. Same as tobacco companies, African miners or gun manufacturers, some will find it palatable, some won’t.
I add value, bringing a pile of crap up to an acceptable safe, warm, habitable standard. Then I rent it.
Most tenants won’t get a mortgage. Some don’t want one. Some don’t want the hassle of maintaining a house.
I agree rents are now too high, but this is what happens when interest rates go up in conjunction with politicians attempting to think.

[JagLover]

Xenoous said:

Councils and housing associations provide a roof over people's heads for a considerably lesser sum per month than you would charge, so that comparison is dumb.

And where do people moving around the country for their jobs stay?. There is a large waiting list for council housing.

[andy43]

JagLover said:

Xenoous said:

Councils and housing associations provide a roof over people's heads for a considerably lesser sum per month than you would charge, so that comparison is dumb.

And where do people moving around the country for their jobs stay?. There is a large waiting list for council housing.

That’s another one - flexibility - I've had applicants new to the area wanting short term rentals while they find somewhere to buy, applicants from Hong Kong wanting to move here - there’s an official route - can’t remember the name of it, and I’ve had tenants renting for a couple of years before they buy their own house.

[98elise]

Xenoous said:

I do make money, I own my own home. I have a growing family and generally speaking, not doing too badly. Even so, I won't be purchasing a second home to rent out, because it's not right.

Go make as much money as you can, making it buying properties and hiking rent shouldn't be allowed.

Councils and housing associations provide a roof over people's heads for a considerably lesser sum per month than you would charge, so that comparison is dumb.

How much do housing associations charge for properties in your area?

I gave an example earlier of a 1 bed HA flat in Rochester (Kent) for a £1100 a month. That's more then I charge for a 3 bed house in the same area (3 miles away). Mine includes a garage and a parking space.

If you don't know what they charge give me a nearby postcode and I'll see if I can find out.

[Xenoous]

Considering my parents still live in one, yes. I grew up in council and housing association housing. £800 odd for a 4 bed semi detached.

The equivalent house private would be at least double that. Cambridgeshire based.

[nickfrog]

Apparently you can stay in a Council house forever and even pass it on to your kids. Is that right?

That's the real scandal if so. Happy to be corrected.