Why is this kid being branded innocent?

[stuthemong]

I'm far from being a bleeding liberal here, but 17?

Yes. If the homeowner was genuinely scared, fair enough for a death to occur in self-defence. I can see how these scenarios play out.

Did he deserve to die?

Not even nearly.

If he were a 40 year old, hardened career crim + heroin user with a string of violent assaults to his name, then yes, I would be prepared to not bat an eyelid at his passing. A lad at seventeen has a lot of growing up to do these days.

I can’t believe I’m going to pull the ‘PH has changed card’, but >95% of these posts make me think there are a lot of members on this site that I don’t particularly like now.

You don’t have to mourn his death, but don’t revel in it ffs. He was a child.

Edited by stuthemong on Monday 16th March 14:34

[Slagathore]

stuthemong said:

I'm far from being a bleeding liberal here, but 17?

Yes. If the homeowner was genuinely scared, fair enough for a death to occur in self-defence. I can see how these scenarios play out.

Did he deserve to die?

Not even nearly.

If he were a 40 year old, hardened career crim + heroin user with a string of violent assaults to his name, then yes, I would be prepared to not bat an eyelid at his passing. A lad at seventeen has a lot of growing up to do these days.

I can’t believe I’m going to pull the ‘PH has changed card’, but >95% of these posts make me think there are a lot of members on this site that I don’t particularly like now.

You don’t have to mourn his death, but don’t revel in it ffs. He was a child.

Edited by stuthemong on Monday 16th March 14:34

One could argue what he would have grown up to be like? If he is already carrying out burglaries at 17, I don't think there was much hope for him!

[stuthemong]

Not really.

I stole fudge bars and milky way when I was young.

I have tresspassed.

I have assaulted people.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.....

Edited by stuthemong on Monday 16th March 14:43

[Tony*T3]

stuthemong said:

I'm far from being a bleeding liberal here, but 17?

Yes. If the homeowner was genuinely scared, fair enough for a death to occur in self-defence. I can see how these scenarios play out.

Did he deserve to die?

Not even nearly.

If he were a 40 year old, hardened career crim + heroin user with a string of violent assaults to his name, then yes, I would be prepared to not bat an eyelid at his passing. A lad at seventeen has a lot of growing up to do these days.

I can’t believe I’m going to pull the ‘PH has changed card’, but >95% of these posts make me think there are a lot of members on this site that I don’t particularly like now.

You don’t have to mourn his death, but don’t revel in it ffs. He was a child.

Edited by stuthemong on Monday 16th March 14:34

I hear what your saying and in many ways agree. However, 17 years old is old enough to serve your country in Afghanistan (and die) therefore if he was in there committing a burglary with his mates (probably tooled up) I for one wouldnt be asking for his proof of age ID before taking action.

Its sad when anyone dies and people make fun of it though. Seems PH i grown into a rather horrid place in this respect.


Edit to add: its come that the only difference beteween PH and some other rather horrid websites is the grammer and spelling....

Edited by Tony*T3 on Monday 16th March 14:44

[Cara Van Man]

stuthemong said:

Not really.

I stole fudge bars and milky way when I was young.

I have tresspassed.

I have assaulted people.

Let he who casts the first stone.....

Well, you are a mong then......eeer, stu.

[Fittster]

stuthemong said:

If he were a 40 year old, hardened career crim + heroin user with a string of violent assaults to his name, then yes, I would be prepared to not bat an eyelid at his passing. A lad at seventeen has a lot of growing up to do these days.

At what age does a criminal become responsible for his actions? A 17 year old certainly understands the possible consequences of his action (both the misery he will inflict on his victims and the personal risks he is running). Does the concept of law being gentle on youths actually work or does it just give them the impression they won't have to face the consequences of their action.

I don't gloat at his death but by the same token I don't mourn him.

[ChristianZS]

Those groups on FaceBook have really hit a low.. NSFW before anyone looks.

[Oakey]

stuthemong said:

I'm far from being a bleeding liberal here, but 17?

Yes. If the homeowner was genuinely scared, fair enough for a death to occur in self-defence. I can see how these scenarios play out.

Did he deserve to die?

Not even nearly.

If he were a 40 year old, hardened career crim + heroin user with a string of violent assaults to his name, then yes, I would be prepared to not bat an eyelid at his passing. A lad at seventeen has a lot of growing up to do these days.

I can’t believe I’m going to pull the ‘PH has changed card’, but >95% of these posts make me think there are a lot of members on this site that I don’t particularly like now.

You don’t have to mourn his death, but don’t revel in it ffs. He was a child.

Edited by stuthemong on Monday 16th March 14:34

So because he was 17 that means he might not possibly be a violent criminal?

I know of a particular nasty piece of work local to me who, at 18, was burgling a 72 year old man's house when said OAP returned home. The burglar smashed him in the face with a shovel. Still, he was only young, didn't know what he was doing, has a lot of 'growing up to do', it was the way he was raised, etc, etc.

He got seven years, served about 2 and is currently back inside after being done for dealing cocaine and possession of a weapon.

you know, half the problem is the apologists like you

Edited by Oakey on Monday 16th March 14:56

[stuthemong]

Tony,

I agree 100%. I realise 17 can be 'old' in other respects, and did think of mentioning the fact that other kids of his age have fully sorted themselves out. That said, I think that it takes longer to 'grow up' these days. Christ, I'm 27 and I have a long way to go until I feel I'm an adult (finished being a student, have a job, have a house etc...) - some 17yr olds are just slow to mature.

I'm not saying he was going to blossom into a nice guy, far from it. In fact, indications are that he was probably on the wrong path.... He didn't 'deserve' to die though.

Flittster,

I 100% agree with you. I don't particularly mourn him, but for others to revel in his death? That's just abhorrent really. He didn't 'deserve' to die. He must shoulder most*, if not all the blame, on putting himself in that situation - I'm not saying anything different. I feel massive sympathy for the homeowner, even if they did take it too far/ were well within the bounds of the law, this chap FORCED the homeowner to take action/make a decision they would rather not have taken. I hope they will be able to come to terms with what happened more than anything else really.

CVM,

Milky bars though. Mmmmmmmm.

• if the homeowner kept stabbing him when he was down and out, it is different to if it was 1 hit that felled him.

[Slagathore]

stuthemong said:

Not really.

I stole fudge bars and milky way when I was young.

I have tresspassed.

I have assaulted people.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.....

Edited by stuthemong on Monday 16th March 14:43

Most of them are fairly minor, and the sort of thing I'm sure a lot of us on here could say we have done! Quite different to burglarising.

Everything around the story seems to paint a picture that he was a bit a twunt! Obviously, none of us know the actual facts, but from the outside, it looks like he got what he deserved!

The fact is - he was doing something wrong and has payed the price. Fair or unfair!

[JagLover]

I think Stu that you are forgetting that many of these kids are career criminals by 17. If he were a few years younger you might have a point, but he was not a child but fully grown and potentially just as dangerous as the 40 year old drug addict.

I will not mourn his passing.

[croyde]

If some was found in my house in the middle of the night where my wife and kids were sleeping, I would hit them as hard as poss with the heaviest object to hand, again and again as I have no idea what they were prepared to do to my family.

I would want them incapable of harming and as I am no expert it would have to be pretty decisive action on my part.

[stuthemong]

PH, Marshall law matters.

If breaking+entering was punishable by law with a death sentance, then yes, he got what he deserved. We don't live in that society.

He got 'what he deserved', but times 1,000,000 dished out to him.

Jaglover,

I agree at 17 he could be quite the dangerous indivdual. I wouldn't fancy my chances 1-on-3 17 yr olds. We really don't know what his background really is. All we know is that he's from a deprived area, and he was young. If he was from Eton, partaking in some hi-jinks in the headmasters lodge and was mown down by the masters shotgun he holds for clay shooting, this wouldn't elicit the same response. It's the 'PH loves to hate chavs' syndrome coming through loud&clear. Yeah, chav, only good dead....etc.etc..

croyde,

I agree with you too. In that situation you have to protect yourself as best you can - and massively, if not totally, bias your safety above and beyond that of the 'perp'. I would do the same. However, you can walk a thin line of the law though if you are not careful. In response to some convictions we've seen in the medja, it would probably be wise to not let the police see him tied up and mutilated in your lounge.

Edited by stuthemong on Monday 16th March 15:12

[MacGee]

where I work some local lads are 6ft 3in approx...you know what I mean...they have been inside various institutions for armed assault using machetes...bad lads. Some older ones have progressed unto arson, armed robbery etc....not nice.
However, if everyone who committed a crime was to be stabbed we would all be dead....drop an apple, speeding, swearing at the footie....

[King Herald]

stuthemong said:

You don’t have to mourn his death, but don’t revel in it ffs. He was a child.

Legally and romantically he may have been 'a child' but by his very nature and attitude he was a grown man and a criminal. He was not going to get any better, not going to improve his lot.

This 'child' would, likely as no, happily have beaten on the home owner, if he'd had the chance, then undoubtedly bragged about it on Face book.

The 'Bulwell solja' was going to go to jail one day, probably several times, without a doubt, so now the tax payer won't have to fund his life, and his ill-spawned chav offspring, for the next 50 years.

[stuthemong]

King Herald said:

stuthemong said:

You don’t have to mourn his death, but don’t revel in it ffs. He was a child.

Legally and romantically he may have been 'a child' but by his very nature and attitude he was a grown man and a criminal. He was not going to get any better, not going to improve his lot.

This 'child' would, likely as no, happily have beaten on the home owner, if he'd had the chance, then undoubtedly bragged about it on Face book.

The 'Bulwell solja' was going to go to jail one day, probably several times, without a doubt, so now the tax payer won't have to fund his life, and his ill-spawned chav offspring, for the next 50 years.

Yeah, lets lock up all chav babies at birth too, before they become burglars.

Edited by stuthemong on Monday 16th March 15:15

[Oakey]

Stuthemong appears to have overlooked my example. Just to add, the lad in my example also burgled my ex girlfriends home a few months prior to this event. What would have happened had she returned home? Maybe she'd have been beaten, maybe even raped? But let's not worry about that, let's get all concerned about some skiprat scumbag who doesn't know right from wrong cos 'he's just a child'.

[Invisible man]

I wonder how this will affect the other 'little soljas' will they all go in tooled up now? has this exacerbated the situation?

[Dr Imran T]

loafer123 said:

The_Burg said:

Oh what a shame, poor little scrote!
Clearly innocent after all he was mummmys little 'solja' and a great footballist.

+1

I remember another example of this where I used to live, where the mother said exactly this.

The following day pictures of him were found on the internet holding an AK47.

Indeed, why do these kinds of story always come up with the same - 'he was a good lad' never harmed a fly nonsense?

Is it a working class thing? or just something that Chav families do as a 'automatic' response?

[Oakey]

Invisible man said:

I wonder how this will affect the other 'little soljas' will they all go in tooled up now? has this exacerbated the situation?

Heh, you think these sort of people aren't already tooled up?