£5000 subsidy for electric cars.
Discussion
Good idea in principle - proportion of NHS tax-take back to fund private health care, school fees paid for by voucher redeemable at the local boggo comp or independent school, £5k subsidy for an electric car or a V8 etc.
The current breed of incompetent socialist ideologues would have the mother of all hissyf
kfits at the mere thought of losing tax-theft and giving people freedom of choice to go against their inept control freakery and nannystatism.
The current breed of incompetent socialist ideologues would have the mother of all hissyf
kfits at the mere thought of losing tax-theft and giving people freedom of choice to go against their inept control freakery and nannystatism.turbobloke said:
When NASA sends a rocket to the Moon or launches a Shuttle there's usually somebody around whining about the cost, yet the only expense in lunar landings was fuel burnt in prep and missions, other consumables consumed, and the scrap value of hardware left behind or destroyed on re-entry. The rest remaions on planet Earth in the moneygoround.
As for the NHS, the cost of treating 'chubbers' amounts to the value of any medication used, energy consumed in lighting and heating for operations etc, consumables consumed, and so on. Doctors and nurses and buildings and furniture and equipment are already paid and accounted for so muist be omitted to avoid double accounting - unless they recruit more staff purely for obesity (possible, non-jobs on the 5-a-day gravy train might qualify) or buy stronger beds (alaso possible) then the costs aren't great. If this is a £billion a year then Alistair Darliong is a competent Chancellor and Gordon Brown the best PM ever.
On-costs and on-benefits are another matter as raised by s2art.
People in hospital should be very grateful for motorists driving high miles, including any 'chubbers', as should any future recipients of the subsidy for electric cars paid for by socialist tax-theft.
Well I'm pretty sure they do have to hire more doctors/nurses/etc to deal with the problem. Or take them away from doing other work.As for the NHS, the cost of treating 'chubbers' amounts to the value of any medication used, energy consumed in lighting and heating for operations etc, consumables consumed, and so on. Doctors and nurses and buildings and furniture and equipment are already paid and accounted for so muist be omitted to avoid double accounting - unless they recruit more staff purely for obesity (possible, non-jobs on the 5-a-day gravy train might qualify) or buy stronger beds (alaso possible) then the costs aren't great. If this is a £billion a year then Alistair Darliong is a competent Chancellor and Gordon Brown the best PM ever.
On-costs and on-benefits are another matter as raised by s2art.
People in hospital should be very grateful for motorists driving high miles, including any 'chubbers', as should any future recipients of the subsidy for electric cars paid for by socialist tax-theft.
You're not a bit on the fat side by any chance are you?
p.s. I'm about 10 years out of school, just to add to your stalker file
XitUp said:
chubber?
No, but I do a few miles in a V8 and I'd like a £5k government subsidy, ideally paid for by taxes on Green Party members only, to help towards a V10 or a V12.As for your habit of posting green myths on motoring sites, that's just your freedom of choice at work regardless of content and naiveté. If you've kept your eyes open while on this site you'd know I value privacy, and respect yours, though you will appreciate that posts on this and other car forums are public domain already.
XitUp said:
turbobloke said:
When NASA sends a rocket to the Moon or launches a Shuttle there's usually somebody around whining about the cost, yet the only expense in lunar landings was fuel burnt in prep and missions, other consumables consumed, and the scrap value of hardware left behind or destroyed on re-entry. The rest remaions on planet Earth in the moneygoround.
As for the NHS, the cost of treating 'chubbers' amounts to the value of any medication used, energy consumed in lighting and heating for operations etc, consumables consumed, and so on. Doctors and nurses and buildings and furniture and equipment are already paid and accounted for so muist be omitted to avoid double accounting - unless they recruit more staff purely for obesity (possible, non-jobs on the 5-a-day gravy train might qualify) or buy stronger beds (alaso possible) then the costs aren't great. If this is a £billion a year then Alistair Darliong is a competent Chancellor and Gordon Brown the best PM ever.
On-costs and on-benefits are another matter as raised by s2art.
People in hospital should be very grateful for motorists driving high miles, including any 'chubbers', as should any future recipients of the subsidy for electric cars paid for by socialist tax-theft.
Well I'm pretty sure they do have to hire more doctors/nurses/etc to deal with the problem. Or take them away from doing other work.As for the NHS, the cost of treating 'chubbers' amounts to the value of any medication used, energy consumed in lighting and heating for operations etc, consumables consumed, and so on. Doctors and nurses and buildings and furniture and equipment are already paid and accounted for so muist be omitted to avoid double accounting - unless they recruit more staff purely for obesity (possible, non-jobs on the 5-a-day gravy train might qualify) or buy stronger beds (alaso possible) then the costs aren't great. If this is a £billion a year then Alistair Darliong is a competent Chancellor and Gordon Brown the best PM ever.
On-costs and on-benefits are another matter as raised by s2art.
People in hospital should be very grateful for motorists driving high miles, including any 'chubbers', as should any future recipients of the subsidy for electric cars paid for by socialist tax-theft.
You're not a bit on the fat side by any chance are you?
p.s. I'm about 10 years out of school, just to add to your stalker file
Just received an email from a friend who's been looking to trade in his hybrid Honda Insight after 4 years. They've found that depreciation is savage due to dealer concerns about the cost and longevity of batteries such that only Honda were happy to take it in part exchange and offered £6000 instead of closer to £4000 or a refusal. As per this thread title all electric cars attract a £5000 government grant per car and there's £750 for installing home charging facilities, yet manufacturers are still selling electric cars in the UK at a loss according to an article in LTT.
turbobloke said:
Just received an email from a friend who's been looking to trade in his hybrid Honda Insight after 4 years. They've found that depreciation is savage due to dealer concerns about the cost and longevity of batteries such that only Honda were happy to take it in part exchange and offered £6000 instead of closer to £4000 or a refusal. As per this thread title all electric cars attract a £5000 government grant per car and there's £750 for installing home charging facilities, yet manufacturers are still selling electric cars in the UK at a loss according to an article in LTT.
They have an 8 year warranty on the battery IIRC so why would a dealer be concerned?98elise said:
turbobloke said:
Just received an email from a friend who's been looking to trade in his hybrid Honda Insight after 4 years. They've found that depreciation is savage due to dealer concerns about the cost and longevity of batteries such that only Honda were happy to take it in part exchange and offered £6000 instead of closer to £4000 or a refusal. As per this thread title all electric cars attract a £5000 government grant per car and there's £750 for installing home charging facilities, yet manufacturers are still selling electric cars in the UK at a loss according to an article in LTT.
They have an 8 year warranty on the battery IIRC so why would a dealer be concerned?They probably have to factor in someone buying it 2nd hand is thinking;
1. If I keep it more than 4 years, I have to fork out for a new battery >> £££ I want it cheap.
2. If I keep it e.g. 3 years, the next buyer will be thinking I have to fork out for a new battery in a year so will only pay buttons, so I want it cheap.
///ajd said:
98elise said:
turbobloke said:
Just received an email from a friend who's been looking to trade in his hybrid Honda Insight after 4 years. They've found that depreciation is savage due to dealer concerns about the cost and longevity of batteries such that only Honda were happy to take it in part exchange and offered £6000 instead of closer to £4000 or a refusal. As per this thread title all electric cars attract a £5000 government grant per car and there's £750 for installing home charging facilities, yet manufacturers are still selling electric cars in the UK at a loss according to an article in LTT.
They have an 8 year warranty on the battery IIRC so why would a dealer be concerned?They probably have to factor in someone buying it 2nd hand is thinking;
1. If I keep it more than 4 years, I have to fork out for a new battery >> £££ I want it cheap.
2. If I keep it e.g. 3 years, the next buyer will be thinking I have to fork out for a new battery in a year so will only pay buttons, so I want it cheap.
Also it's 8 years or 80,000 miles iirc.
turbobloke said:
///ajd said:
98elise said:
turbobloke said:
Just received an email from a friend who's been looking to trade in his hybrid Honda Insight after 4 years. They've found that depreciation is savage due to dealer concerns about the cost and longevity of batteries such that only Honda were happy to take it in part exchange and offered £6000 instead of closer to £4000 or a refusal. As per this thread title all electric cars attract a £5000 government grant per car and there's £750 for installing home charging facilities, yet manufacturers are still selling electric cars in the UK at a loss according to an article in LTT.
They have an 8 year warranty on the battery IIRC so why would a dealer be concerned?They probably have to factor in someone buying it 2nd hand is thinking;
1. If I keep it more than 4 years, I have to fork out for a new battery >> £££ I want it cheap.
2. If I keep it e.g. 3 years, the next buyer will be thinking I have to fork out for a new battery in a year so will only pay buttons, so I want it cheap.
Also it's 8 years or 80,000 miles iirc.
So with free parking and free leccy right outside the office door, plus the opportunity coming to be able to use that empty bus lane mentioned on the other thread, well it would be rude not to consider it.
Problem is that it seems the majority of decent priced ones are all Flex models, originally PCP'd with a leased battery to keep monthly payments low, and there seems to be no ready mechanism to get the thing converted to bought battery.
On the question of life and cost of battery replacement there are taxis knocking about with well over 100k on the clock and no appreciable loss in capacity. Also improvements made in individual cell replacement rather than the whole caboodle.
I will still, of course, keep other vehicle(s) more PH appropriate, though sadly the techno Beetle went some time ago.
FiF said:
turbobloke said:
///ajd said:
98elise said:
turbobloke said:
Just received an email from a friend who's been looking to trade in his hybrid Honda Insight after 4 years. They've found that depreciation is savage due to dealer concerns about the cost and longevity of batteries such that only Honda were happy to take it in part exchange and offered £6000 instead of closer to £4000 or a refusal. As per this thread title all electric cars attract a £5000 government grant per car and there's £750 for installing home charging facilities, yet manufacturers are still selling electric cars in the UK at a loss according to an article in LTT.
They have an 8 year warranty on the battery IIRC so why would a dealer be concerned?They probably have to factor in someone buying it 2nd hand is thinking;
1. If I keep it more than 4 years, I have to fork out for a new battery >> £££ I want it cheap.
2. If I keep it e.g. 3 years, the next buyer will be thinking I have to fork out for a new battery in a year so will only pay buttons, so I want it cheap.
Also it's 8 years or 80,000 miles iirc.
So with free parking and free leccy right outside the office door, plus the opportunity coming to be able to use that empty bus lane mentioned on the other thread, well it would be rude not to consider it.
Problem is that it seems the majority of decent priced ones are all Flex models, originally PCP'd with a leased battery to keep monthly payments low, and there seems to be no ready mechanism to get the thing converted to bought battery.
On the question of life and cost of battery replacement there are taxis knocking about with well over 100k on the clock and no appreciable loss in capacity. Also improvements made in individual cell replacement rather than the whole caboodle.
I will still, of course, keep other vehicle(s) more PH appropriate, though sadly the techno Beetle went some time ago.
The friend who's getting a hard time chopping in his car is a retired research scientist who's been running a climate realist website for some time but sees the same benefits of going with the car for purely pragmatic reasons while rejecting the ideological baggage. I can't say I'd be tempted, I find large V8s too good to pass up for any journey.
///ajd said:
98elise said:
turbobloke said:
Just received an email from a friend who's been looking to trade in his hybrid Honda Insight after 4 years. They've found that depreciation is savage due to dealer concerns about the cost and longevity of batteries such that only Honda were happy to take it in part exchange and offered £6000 instead of closer to £4000 or a refusal. As per this thread title all electric cars attract a £5000 government grant per car and there's £750 for installing home charging facilities, yet manufacturers are still selling electric cars in the UK at a loss according to an article in LTT.
They have an 8 year warranty on the battery IIRC so why would a dealer be concerned?They probably have to factor in someone buying it 2nd hand is thinking;
1. If I keep it more than 4 years, I have to fork out for a new battery >> £££ I want it cheap.
2. If I keep it e.g. 3 years, the next buyer will be thinking I have to fork out for a new battery in a year so will only pay buttons, so I want it cheap.
The problem is not the cost, its how rare the current cars are so the lack of knowledge from both dealers and specialists.
98elise said:
///ajd said:
98elise said:
turbobloke said:
Just received an email from a friend who's been looking to trade in his hybrid Honda Insight after 4 years. They've found that depreciation is savage due to dealer concerns about the cost and longevity of batteries such that only Honda were happy to take it in part exchange and offered £6000 instead of closer to £4000 or a refusal. As per this thread title all electric cars attract a £5000 government grant per car and there's £750 for installing home charging facilities, yet manufacturers are still selling electric cars in the UK at a loss according to an article in LTT.
They have an 8 year warranty on the battery IIRC so why would a dealer be concerned?They probably have to factor in someone buying it 2nd hand is thinking;
1. If I keep it more than 4 years, I have to fork out for a new battery >> £££ I want it cheap.
2. If I keep it e.g. 3 years, the next buyer will be thinking I have to fork out for a new battery in a year so will only pay buttons, so I want it cheap.
The problem is not the cost, its how rare the current cars are so the lack of knowledge from both dealers and specialists.
As ever as the market drives the need for cheaper solutions, they will materialise.
///ajd said:
I agree, its possibly the fear of a new £5000 battery rather than that being reality.
As ever as the market drives the need for cheaper solutions, they will materialise.
That's part of the problem though with putting government subsidy into the retail end of the market. It reduces the necessity to improve the technology or reduce the cost, and therefore distorts the market.As ever as the market drives the need for cheaper solutions, they will materialise.
I would be happier to see government money fund research and development, so that the product becomes competitive in the market place sooner.
Camoradi said:
That's part of the problem though with putting government subsidy into the retail end of the market. It reduces the necessity to improve the technology or reduce the cost, and therefore distorts the market.
I would be happier to see government money fund research and development, so that the product becomes competitive in the market place sooner.
We'll probably see the effect of market distortion as the subsidy disappears. Will prices go up, or will they stay at similar levels. If prices go up from where they are now sales will collapse imo.I would be happier to see government money fund research and development, so that the product becomes competitive in the market place sooner.
Depreciation is a tricky one, clearly compared to notional otr prices, second hand prices have dropped dramatically, will that rate of decline continue with used vehicles or flatten out.
Who knows, regardless of vehicles, a lot still hangs on charging infrastructure which always seems to be a step behind.
woodypup59 said:
£5000 isn't so bad.
A DMF and clutch on a diesel is a grand, and if you're unlucky (ie me) that's every 50 kmiles. On the third one now. They didn't tell us that when we bought it.
Batteries are about 2k rather than 5k. A DMF and clutch on a diesel is a grand, and if you're unlucky (ie me) that's every 50 kmiles. On the third one now. They didn't tell us that when we bought it.
I would imagine that DPF or Clutch/MDF will render a lot of 10-12 year old cars worthless. Who is going to spend a grand on a car worth little more than that.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff