£5000 subsidy for electric cars.

[bodhi]

I do think there should be a process limit above which the cars aren't subsidised. I don't have too much someone being encouraged to buy a Leaf, but a millionaire being subsidised to ease his conscience and splurge 90k on a Tesla?

Stuff that.

[otolith]

bodhi said:

I do think there should be a process limit above which the cars aren't subsidised. I don't have too much someone being encouraged to buy a Leaf, but a millionaire being subsidised to ease his conscience and splurge 90k on a Tesla?

Stuff that.

Consider the cost effectiveness, though, of getting someone out of a 7-series or S-class versus getting them out of a Focus or Golf.

[bodhi]

otolith said:

Consider the cost effectiveness, though, of getting someone out of a 7-series or S-class versus getting them out of a Focus or Golf.

I would have thought the additional tax savings, such as fuel and VED, would be more than enough to encourage them to move over.

I am far from a socialist, in fact I dislike everything it stands for, however the thought of taking tax from the poor and giving it to someone who can afford to spend 90k on a car, makes me feel seriously uncomfortable.

And thats before we even go there on the dubious environmental benefits of EVs.

[Mr GrimNasty]

TESLA cars are subsidized far more than £5K or whatever local/country sales market policy applies.

The whole company is one big money pit.

[jonby]

bodhi said:

otolith said:

Consider the cost effectiveness, though, of getting someone out of a 7-series or S-class versus getting them out of a Focus or Golf.

I would have thought the additional tax savings, such as fuel and VED, would be more than enough to encourage them to move over.

I am far from a socialist, in fact I dislike everything it stands for, however the thought of taking tax from the poor and giving it to someone who can afford to spend 90k on a car, makes me feel seriously uncomfortable.

And thats before we even go there on the dubious environmental benefits of EVs.

When it's a Tesla for £90k, it's arguable. But when the buyer of a 918, P1 or LaF, each for very roughly c. £1 MIL, get's a £5k subsidy, it's simply scandalous

[FiF]

But those examples aren't going to be getting that subsidy in future AFAIK. Same applies to compliance hybrids too imo.

[otolith]

jonby said:

When it's a Tesla for £90k, it's arguable. But when the buyer of a 918, P1 or LaF, each for very roughly c. £1 MIL, get's a £5k subsidy, it's simply scandalous

Given that the ticket price of a 1 million pound hypercar includes £167k in VAT, I'm not crying too hard for the chancellor.

[jonby]

otolith said:

jonby said:

When it's a Tesla for £90k, it's arguable. But when the buyer of a 918, P1 or LaF, each for very roughly c. £1 MIL, get's a £5k subsidy, it's simply scandalous

Given that the ticket price of a 1 million pound hypercar includes £167k in VAT, I'm not crying too hard for the chancellor.

You think that because so much is paid in VAT, it's a sensible policy to subsidise buyers of £1 MIL cars ?

Of course within a very few yrs, most of the major sports car manufacturers (Ferrari, Mclaren, Porsche, AML as a bare minimum) will be offering £150-250k hybrid cars that qualify for the subsidy. At most, only a small percentage will be overly influenced by the environmental benefits of such a car. They should be given £5k tax funded subsidies ?

[otolith]

jonby said:

You think that because so much is paid in VAT, it's a sensible policy to subsidise buyers of £1 MIL cars ?

It is not something over which I shall lose an iota of sleep, no. It's little more than a rounding error on the total tax contributions of such people.

[Butter Face]

It's a moot point anyway as from 1st of March any car with a 60k+ price tag won't get any grant at all.

[turbobloke]

Top 10 worst depreciating cars is dominated by electric cars with the Nissan Leaf the Numero Uno worst depreciator:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/94305/faste...

[BigBen]

turbobloke said:

Top 10 worst depreciating cars is dominated by electric cars with the Nissan Leaf the Numero Uno worst depreciator:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/94305/faste...

The figures all ignore the £5000 grant and assume you pay list. I expected better from Auto Express. Oh wait, no I didn't.

[turbobloke]

BigBen said:

turbobloke said:

Top 10 worst depreciating cars is dominated by electric cars with the Nissan Leaf the Numero Uno worst depreciator:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/94305/faste...

The figures all ignore the £5000 grant and assume you pay list. I expected better from Auto Express. Oh wait, no I didn't.

Yet the difference between the highest and lowest depreciation £figures for the cars listed is more than double the value of the subsidy at £11,265

[jonby]

Butter Face said:

It's a moot point anyway as from 1st of March any car with a 60k+ price tag won't get any grant at all.

I didn't know that - very interesting and good to hear

[The_Burg]

turbobloke said:

Top 10 worst depreciating cars is dominated by electric cars with the Nissan Leaf the Numero Uno worst depreciator:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/94305/faste...

Erm:

Cost new: £26,885 -£5k subsidy = £21,885
Value at 3yrs/ 36k miles: £5,075 - cheapest real price on Autotrader is £7450
Percentage value retained: 19% - Real % = 34%
You lose: £21,810 = £14430.


Quite a difference. Factor in no tax for 3 years, minimal fuel cost, zero congestion charge if you are Cockerny, (there's another£6 in your pocket).

Not so bad.

[BigBen]

turbobloke said:

BigBen said:

turbobloke said:

Top 10 worst depreciating cars is dominated by electric cars with the Nissan Leaf the Numero Uno worst depreciator:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/94305/faste...

The figures all ignore the £5000 grant and assume you pay list. I expected better from Auto Express. Oh wait, no I didn't.

Yet the difference between the highest and lowest depreciation £figures for the cars listed is more than double the value of the subsidy at £11,265

Good point so makes the figures similar to similar sized IC cars. It would be more relevant to say the list is dominated by French cars given there are more of them than electric cars in the list.

[turbobloke]

BigBen said:

turbobloke said:

BigBen said:

turbobloke said:

Top 10 worst depreciating cars is dominated by electric cars with the Nissan Leaf the Numero Uno worst depreciator:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars/94305/faste...

The figures all ignore the £5000 grant and assume you pay list. I expected better from Auto Express. Oh wait, no I didn't.

Yet the difference between the highest and lowest depreciation £figures for the cars listed is more than double the value of the subsidy at £11,265

Good point so makes the figures similar to similar sized IC cars. It would be more relevant to say the list is dominated by French cars given there are more of them than electric cars in the list.

Vive la différence

It still makes for quite 'impressive' depreciation.

[Butter Face]

A ZOE has the 5k government grant and a £5109 deposit contribution.

A Megane TCE currently (and has had for almost 18 months) 30% off list.

Still, Autoexpress don't want to publish stuff like that!

[Mr GrimNasty]

What, that you can't even give electric cars away, re-sellers don't want then, makers are consolidating models because of lack of interest, markets without massive subsidy/compulsion are shrinking, that the only way electric cars will become mainstream is by compulsion, because they are a bad engineering solution to a non-existent problem, and if they did become mainstream, we wouldn't have the grid generating capacity to power them.

[BigBen]

Mr GrimNasty said:

What, that you can't even give electric cars away, re-sellers don't want then, makers are consolidating models because of lack of interest, markets without massive subsidy/compulsion are shrinking, that the only way electric cars will become mainstream is by compulsion, because they are a bad engineering solution to a non-existent problem, and if they did become mainstream, we wouldn't have the grid generating capacity to power them.

4 people in my office of 20ish have gone electric purely because they are giving them away, certainly not for tree hugging reasons. I would also question why they are a bad engineering solution for short-ish commutes they seem ideal for it to me.