Banning the Burqini...

[WinstonWolf]

BigLion said:

People can argue the toss re dress code, the reality is the typical westerner greatly dislikes Muslims. This is the case across Western Europe.

You cannot force someone to like you - times will be hard for Muslims, just like it can be hard for westerners in the Middle East, but perception is 'they' bought it on themselves.

I for one think a move to a more secular society would be a better thing.

More secular?

Have you seen the news lately, it's all one religion knocking bits off the other. Religion has no place being taught as fact in a civilised society.

[Alpinestars]

walm said:

No - I don't like the dress code. Hence getting naked and defending the right to wear a burkhini.

I was trying to point out that having rules about what people can and can't wear is perfectly aligned with "western" values!!

(I think I am on your side in this!)

Sorry, whoosh parrot for me.

[joema]

Educating the public about why they don't have to wear such religious garments would be better. They should be taught that they are equal members of society and should not be oppressed by men and have every right to not cover themselves up.

Making it illegal is not ideal and probably counter productive as it should be the individuals choice in a free society. Why make their lives worse?

[jjlynn27]

popeyewhite said:

jjlynn27 said:

Typical westerner greatly dislikes Muslims? Only if typical westerner is member of Pagida, BNL and the like.

Seriously? Despite numerous terrorist attacks linked (perhaps spuriously) in one way or another to Muslims you really think it's an extreme view for the ordinary westerner to dislike them? That's kind of like Camerons's ignorance of popular feeling on Brexit or Blair's famous 'despite invading the country we're no more susceptible to terrorist attacks' naivete.

Yes seriously. It's the logic of terminally stupid to blame all muslims for the actions of the few. It would be as stupid as to 'greatly dislike' the Irish people because of the actions of IRA.

[joema]

jjlynn27 said:

popeyewhite said:

jjlynn27 said:

Typical westerner greatly dislikes Muslims? Only if typical westerner is member of Pagida, BNL and the like.

Seriously? Despite numerous terrorist attacks linked (perhaps spuriously) in one way or another to Muslims you really think it's an extreme view for the ordinary westerner to dislike them? That's kind of like Camerons's ignorance of popular feeling on Brexit or Blair's famous 'despite invading the country we're no more susceptible to terrorist attacks' naivete.

Yes seriously. It's the logic of terminally stupid to blame all muslims for the actions of the few. It would be as stupid as to 'greatly dislike' the Irish people because of the actions of IRA.

Generalisations and prejudices against low choice groups of society shows a pretty low IQ

[rscott]

Never mind banning the burqini, now the French want to ban pictures of the police enforcing the ban! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/fra...

[Halb]

Wow.

Silly fools.

[del mar]

joema said:

Educating the public about why they don't have to wear such religious garments would be better. They should be taught that they are equal members of society and should not be oppressed by men and have every right to not cover themselves up.

Making it illegal is not ideal and probably counter productive as it should be the individuals choice in a free society. Why make their lives worse?

But that would go against some of the very core principals of Islam, and would involve trying to tell these people that the most perfect religion in the world given by God himself to his prophet - the most perfect man that ever lived, was wrong.

Or that it has been misinterpreted by millions if not billions of people over the past 1500 years.

I think you would stand a much better chance of telling people what to wear than that.

People regularly throw "education" as a cure to all problems, but in this instance educate who and about what ?

[popeyewhite]

jjlynn27 said:

popeyewhite said:

jjlynn27 said:

Typical westerner greatly dislikes Muslims? Only if typical westerner is member of Pagida, BNL and the like.

Seriously? Despite numerous terrorist attacks linked (perhaps spuriously) in one way or another to Muslims you really think it's an extreme view for the ordinary westerner to dislike them? That's kind of like Camerons's ignorance of popular feeling on Brexit or Blair's famous 'despite invading the country we're no more susceptible to terrorist attacks' naivete.

Yes seriously. It's the logic of terminally stupid to blame all muslims for the actions of the few. It would be as stupid as to 'greatly dislike' the Irish people because of the actions of IRA.

WHOOOOOOSH

[vsonix]

JonRB said:

Colonial said:

zac510 said:

In effect, and perhaps not intentionally, the French are pushing Western values onto them too.

Well, they did chose to live in a western country...

Indeed. The clue is in the word "integration". They are being asked to integrate into an existing society, not for the existing society to pander to them.

I admire the French in this respect. I wish our country was less willing to toady to every minority group going.

This is the crux of the issue, generally speaking when 'we' go to other countries where the ruling theocracy imposes societal dress codes, we conform with them when in a public place. However the reverse doesn't seem to apply. I think the French totally overstepped the mark in this case, I think they are well within their rights to demand that people do not cover their faces when going about their daily business, but if someone wants to cover as much of their skin as possible when out in the sun -for any reason- they should be allowed to do so. Skin cancer is a risk and not everyone feels comfortable half naked, especially the flabbier amongst us!

[Sylvaforever]

WinstonWolf said:

More secular?

Have you seen the news lately, it's all one religion knocking bits off the other. Religion has no place being taught as fact in a civilised society.

Or as Ozzy says "I'll have the wine but you can keep the bread"

[Smiler.]

popeyewhite said:

jjlynn27 said:

popeyewhite said:

jjlynn27 said:

Typical westerner greatly dislikes Muslims? Only if typical westerner is member of Pagida, BNL and the like.

Seriously? Despite numerous terrorist attacks linked (perhaps spuriously) in one way or another to Muslims you really think it's an extreme view for the ordinary westerner to dislike them? That's kind of like Camerons's ignorance of popular feeling on Brexit or Blair's famous 'despite invading the country we're no more susceptible to terrorist attacks' naivete.

Yes seriously. It's the logic of terminally stupid to blame all muslims for the actions of the few. It would be as stupid as to 'greatly dislike' the Irish people because of the actions of IRA.

WHOOOOOOSH

"jjlynn27" will be listed in the OED next year under "blinkered".

[Digga]

rscott said:

Never mind banning the burqini, now the French want to ban pictures of the police enforcing the ban! http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/fra...

Tremendous. Clearly attempting to go full-house totalitarian. Because that always works well.

[Countdown]

walm said:

Really?
We have a dress code at work.
And last time I got naked on the tube, Boris was most upset.

To the best of my knowledge your work dress code isn't a "western value", and nudists would argue the same against Boris.

[Countdown]

BigLion said:

Brexit should show you what the population thinks and that is what I base my view on - reality is many substituted the immigration word for Muslims.<snip>

I'm shocked. Are you suggesting that those who voted for Brexit did so because they don' like muslims?

[Biker 1]

Not sure if this has been covered elsewhere, but it appears Scotland is doing almost the exact opposite of France: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/pol...

Right? Wrong?? And because of belief in a book/fairy story.....

For the avoidance of doubt: I see myself as an agnostic, verging on atheism.

[walm]

Countdown said:

walm said:

Really?
We have a dress code at work.
And last time I got naked on the tube, Boris was most upset.

To the best of my knowledge your work dress code isn't a "western value", and nudists would argue the same against Boris.

I never said it was a western value.
It's an example of telling people how to dress that is entirely compatible with western values, which have precisely nothing to say on the topic of what you wear.

Sure it's more liberal to let anyone wear anything but the western world hasn't gone that far yet... hence uniforms, turbans, niqabs and sodding business casual.

[Countdown]

walm said:

I never said it was a western value.
It's an example of telling people how to dress that is entirely compatible with western values, which have precisely nothing to say on the topic of what you wear.

Sure it's more liberal to let anyone wear anything but the western world hasn't gone that far yet... hence uniforms, turbans, niqabs and sodding business casual.

Fairy nuff

[lionelf]

Biker 1 said:

For the avoidance of doubt: I see myself as an agnostic, verging on atheism.

Pah, Agnostics are just Atheists trying to hedge their bets.

[jjlynn27]

popeyewhite said:

jjlynn27 said:

popeyewhite said:

jjlynn27 said:

Typical westerner greatly dislikes Muslims? Only if typical westerner is member of Pagida, BNL and the like.

Seriously? Despite numerous terrorist attacks linked (perhaps spuriously) in one way or another to Muslims you really think it's an extreme view for the ordinary westerner to dislike them? That's kind of like Camerons's ignorance of popular feeling on Brexit or Blair's famous 'despite invading the country we're no more susceptible to terrorist attacks' naivete.

Yes seriously. It's the logic of terminally stupid to blame all muslims for the actions of the few. It would be as stupid as to 'greatly dislike' the Irish people because of the actions of IRA.

WHOOOOOOSH

No, no woosh. Everything above stands.