Banning the Burqini...

[Smokehead]

I always thought the burkini was an Aussie invention.

[anonymous-user]

Smokehead said:

I always thought the burkini was an Aussie invention.

Yes-a piece by the creator of it here:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug...

[Countdown]

PRTVR said:

But things are changing due to the situation that the west finds themselves in, the liberal advanced society feels under attack, liberal attitudes are being seen as a weakness by people who would wish us harm, this is a reaction to events, not an event in isolation.

So the "liberal advanced society" responds by adopting the behaviour of less-developed societies? By lowering our standards to their level?

[PRTVR]

Countdown said:

PRTVR said:

But things are changing due to the situation that the west finds themselves in, the liberal advanced society feels under attack, liberal attitudes are being seen as a weakness by people who would wish us harm, this is a reaction to events, not an event in isolation.

So the "liberal advanced society" responds by adopting the behaviour of less-developed societies? By lowering our standards to their level?

That's human nature I'm afraid, if you were attacked would you try to reason with your attackers or try to defend yourself with the same violence as is been used against you ?

[Boosted LS1]

Countdown said:

Indeed they can. And what the French are doing is showing that they can be just as intolerant.

But the french aren't barbarians from the third world. They're trying to take back some control from a sect that has a dangerous ideology.

[Boosted LS1]

Alpinestars said:

Do you think this will achieve better integration?

That's not the aim. The aim is to enforce a set of western rules that all can live by. The muslims keep challenging that and moving the goal posts. It's an ideology. They don't care about non believers. We are kafir in our own countries.

[Alpinestars]

PRTVR said:

That's human nature I'm afraid, if you were attacked would you try to reason with your attackers or try to defend yourself with the same violence as is been used against you ?

Who did the woman attack?

[Boosted LS1]

Alpinestars said:

PRTVR said:

That's human nature I'm afraid, if you were attacked would you try to reason with your attackers or try to defend yourself with the same violence as is been used against you ?

Who did the woman attack?

That's irrelevant. She was making a statement that the French don't like.

[Alpinestars]

Boosted LS1 said:

That's irrelevant. She was making a statement that the French don't like.

And what's that likely to achieve?

[Alpinestars]

Boosted LS1 said:

That's not the aim. The aim is to enforce a set of western rules that all can live by. The muslims keep challenging that and moving the goal posts. It's an ideology. They don't care about non believers. We are kafir in our own countries.

I didn't realise we, the West had rules for how one should dress on a beach. So 1.6bn Muslims are challenging a Western rule that only you've heard of? Staggering.

[anonymous-user]

PRTVR said:

Countdown said:

rich85uk said:

To those outraged by this please answer the following:

Is this more outrageous than the women raped/gang raped in the UAE and were sent to prison for having sex outside of marriage and charged for being drunk

Is this more outrageous than the couple sent to prison for 4 weeks after a kiss on the lips in a resturaunt in the UAE

Is this more outrageous than a possible prison sentence for couples who share a hotel room who aren't married in the UAE

I do not support this law but the outcry is huge, UAE imposes some extreme laws which are far worse yet the overwhelming opinion is those are the rules you must obey

Do you think that trying to emulate countries which have backwards laws is a good thing?

There's a good reason why there's an outcry. It's because we are (for the most part) an educated liberal advanced society and we aren't keen on imposing fascist laws.

But things are changing due to the situation that the west finds themselves in, the liberal advanced society feels under attack, liberal attitudes are being seen as a weakness by people who would wish us harm, this is a reaction to events, not an event in isolation.

I'm afraid it looks rather weak to be targeting the dress-sense of Muslim women.
They've set the bar really low there.

[PRTVR]

Alpinestars said:

PRTVR said:

That's human nature I'm afraid, if you were attacked would you try to reason with your attackers or try to defend yourself with the same violence as is been used against you ?

Who did the woman attack?

Take out of context, as you know fine well, it was a reply to a question about how humans can and will change their levels of what is acceptable according to the situation that they find themselves in.

[Alpinestars]

PRTVR said:

Take out of context, as you know fine well, it was a reply to a question about how humans can and will change their levels of what is acceptable according to the situation that they find themselves in.

What did it achieve, in context of the action?

[Mothersruin]

Alpinestars said:

PRTVR said:

Take out of context, as you know fine well, it was a reply to a question about how humans can and will change their levels of what is acceptable according to the situation that they find themselves in.

What did it achieve, in context of the action?

You're not doing context or reality

[PRTVR]

Alpinestars said:

PRTVR said:

Take out of context, as you know fine well, it was a reply to a question about how humans can and will change their levels of what is acceptable according to the situation that they find themselves in.

What did it achieve, in context of the action?

That question is best directed to the people who constructed the law, perhaps they saw that type of clothing as a type of segregation, but that would be just a guess as I was not privy to their thoughts.

[Alpinestars]

Mothersruin said:

You're not doing context or reality

Fecund.

[AJS-]

Countdown said:

Indeed they can. And what the French are doing is showing that they can be just as intolerant.

Well not quite. The penalty for flouting the Burkina ban is €150 fine. Fairly steep but it could be worse.

Article 152 of Sudans criminal code states that

‘Whoever commits, in a public space, an act, or conducts himself in an indecent manner, or a manner contrary to public morality, or wears an indecent or immoral dress, which causes annoyance to public feelings, shall be punished, with whipping, not exceeding 40 lashes, or with a fine, or with both.’

Someone on the comments section of the Independent likened wearing a burkini in France at the moment to wearing an SS uniform to a bar mitzvah.

[Alpinestars]

PRTVR said:

That question is best directed to the people who constructed the law, perhaps they saw that type of clothing as a type of segregation, but that would be just a guess as I was not privy to their thoughts.

Surely if you've bothered partaking of the thread, you have your own thoughts about such a basic question?

[djc206]

AJS- said:

Well not quite. The penalty for flouting the Burkina ban is €150 fine. Fairly steep but it could be worse.

Article 152 of Sudans criminal code states that

‘Whoever commits, in a public space, an act, or conducts himself in an indecent manner, or a manner contrary to public morality, or wears an indecent or immoral dress, which causes annoyance to public feelings, shall be punished, with whipping, not exceeding 40 lashes, or with a fine, or with both.’

Someone on the comments section of the Independent likened wearing a burkini in France at the moment to wearing an SS uniform to a bar mitzvah.

Well that's a little ridiculous as none of the French attackers were burkini clad women. If they'd been laying on Isis flag beach towels that commenter may have a point.

I hate the burqa and the burkini and everything they stand for but they are self defeating. A Muslim family trapsing into the sea wearing their ninja outfits surrounded by bikini clad westerners is destined to see their idea of modesty challenged and altered over time. You can already see it in the ex pat heavy parts of the Middle East, burqas/hijabs etc are becoming more intricate, nails are painted, fancy watches on show, £5k handbag over the shoulder, lots of makeup, fancy shoes. This challenging of what qualifies as modest is the first step. Last time I was in Dubai there were a fair few locals including women drinking alcohol. Give it a couple of generations and it'll be bikinis, bacon sarnies and beers on the beach.

[JagLover]

Countdown said:

So the "liberal advanced society" responds by adopting the behaviour of less-developed societies? By lowering our standards to their level?

A society that is under constant attack has larger concerns than the prime concern of today's liberal democracies of whether someone's feelings might get hurt.

It is why it is everyone's interest in the west, Muslim and Non-Muslim alike, to finally have some proper immigration controls to keep both the extremists, and those who will struggle economically in a first world economy, out.