Banning the Burqini...
Discussion
rscott said:
avinalarf said:
I wonder how many of you would defend,so vociferously,the ritual killing of animals to conform to Islamic practice?
Most lamb is now killed in the Islamic tradition,doesn't bother me to much,but many are greatly concerned,where is the serious debate on this.
When the subject is raised those against it are often accused of being Islamaphobic.
Again, this isn't as simple as it appears... It can seem Islamaphobic if the discussion only ever features halal and doesn't mention kosher slaughter. Far better to consider both together.Most lamb is now killed in the Islamic tradition,doesn't bother me to much,but many are greatly concerned,where is the serious debate on this.
When the subject is raised those against it are often accused of being Islamaphobic.
I have no issue with the vast majority of halal slaughter in the UK as the animals are pre-stunned, so the suffering is no different that normal slaughter. I don't like or agree with unstunned slaughter, be it for halal or kosher reasons.
The adoption in the UK ,and many other parts of the World,of Halal meat is a fait accompli,it is not clearly labelled as such and is sold in all the mainstream supermarkets as well as schools,hospitals etc.
irocfan said:
another point to raise re the burkini ban - IIRC several of the beaches in France ban swimming shorts insisting that the budgie smuggler is the only suitable attire. Not so much as a peep about this?
Isn't that only the case in swimming pools? It's for hygiene reasons, so is likely to still be enforceable for burqinis still.avinalarf said:
rscott said:
avinalarf said:
I wonder how many of you would defend,so vociferously,the ritual killing of animals to conform to Islamic practice?
Most lamb is now killed in the Islamic tradition,doesn't bother me to much,but many are greatly concerned,where is the serious debate on this.
When the subject is raised those against it are often accused of being Islamaphobic.
Again, this isn't as simple as it appears... It can seem Islamaphobic if the discussion only ever features halal and doesn't mention kosher slaughter. Far better to consider both together.Most lamb is now killed in the Islamic tradition,doesn't bother me to much,but many are greatly concerned,where is the serious debate on this.
When the subject is raised those against it are often accused of being Islamaphobic.
I have no issue with the vast majority of halal slaughter in the UK as the animals are pre-stunned, so the suffering is no different that normal slaughter. I don't like or agree with unstunned slaughter, be it for halal or kosher reasons.
The adoption in the UK ,and many other parts of the World,of Halal meat is a fait accompli,it is not clearly labelled as such and is sold in all the mainstream supermarkets as well as schools,hospitals etc.
The stunned halal is no more or less humane than normal slaughter (at least that's the view of the likes of the RSPCA). Presumably then you have some other reason for wanting to avoid it?
rscott said:
Tesco have been asked about this many times - they only sell a tiny proportion of unstunned halal and that's clearly labeled as such and sold through specific counters in stores where there's a strong local demand. Most other supermarkets are the same.
The stunned halal is no more or less humane than normal slaughter (at least that's the view of the likes of the RSPCA). Presumably then you have some other reason for wanting to avoid it?
I would much prefer my meat to have had as nice as life as possible and come to a humane as possible end.The stunned halal is no more or less humane than normal slaughter (at least that's the view of the likes of the RSPCA). Presumably then you have some other reason for wanting to avoid it?
Slaughtering the thing with a slit to the neck while it bleeds dry is barbaric beyond words.
No amount of sky fairy film flam and... "bet you had a battery chicken when you were young"
Torture is quite simply torture.
Yes... we eat meat.. making the animal brain dead - and immune to pain... is better than let the thing die a slow painful death
Troubleatmill said:
rscott said:
Tesco have been asked about this many times - they only sell a tiny proportion of unstunned halal and that's clearly labeled as such and sold through specific counters in stores where there's a strong local demand. Most other supermarkets are the same.
The stunned halal is no more or less humane than normal slaughter (at least that's the view of the likes of the RSPCA). Presumably then you have some other reason for wanting to avoid it?
I would much prefer my meat to have had as nice as life as possible and come to a humane as possible end.The stunned halal is no more or less humane than normal slaughter (at least that's the view of the likes of the RSPCA). Presumably then you have some other reason for wanting to avoid it?
Slaughtering the thing with a slit to the neck while it bleeds dry is barbaric beyond words.
No amount of sky fairy film flam and... "bet you had a battery chicken when you were young"
Torture is quite simply torture.
Yes... we eat meat.. making the animal brain dead - and immune to pain... is better than let the thing die a slow painful death
However the vast majority of Halal slaughter here is pre-stunned, which research has shown causes no more suffering than conventional slaughter.
http://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/slau... .
rscott said:
Tesco have been asked about this many times - they only sell a tiny proportion of unstunned halal and that's clearly labeled as such and sold through specific counters in stores where there's a strong local demand. Most other supermarkets are the same.
The stunned halal is no more or less humane than normal slaughter (at least that's the view of the likes of the RSPCA). Presumably then you have some other reason for wanting to avoid it?
I do not usually post comments on a personal preference.The stunned halal is no more or less humane than normal slaughter (at least that's the view of the likes of the RSPCA). Presumably then you have some other reason for wanting to avoid it?
My debate is informed by my interpretation of a topic,my interpretation is based on that which I read,see or hear.
I try and see both sides of a debate,most topics,not all,I try to view from alternative perspectives.
There are very few Universal Truths.
p.s.if we are really concerned about our animals welfare we should eat less meat or be a veggie.
By doing so more care could be given to the animals.
The slaughter houses and transportation of animals leave much to be desired,so confining the debate just to the method of slaughter is only a part of the equation.
Edited by avinalarf on Saturday 27th August 20:03
GT03ROB said:
avinalarf said:
But I think you keep missing my point.
I agree with much of what you say.
What a person chooses to wear is of no concern to me and that is not my debating point.
I am debating whether it would be more helpful if we and Muslims joined together and discussed how we could defeat this extreme fundamentalism whilst at the same time assuaging the fears,whether irrational or not of a fair majority of the non Muslim faith.
I may have been missing your point...... probably because I agree with your point! I agree with much of what you say.
What a person chooses to wear is of no concern to me and that is not my debating point.
I am debating whether it would be more helpful if we and Muslims joined together and discussed how we could defeat this extreme fundamentalism whilst at the same time assuaging the fears,whether irrational or not of a fair majority of the non Muslim faith.
(except it would have to be non-alcoholic, those damn muslims again!) irocfan said:
another point to raise re the burkini ban - IIRC several of the beaches in France ban swimming shorts insisting that the budgie smuggler is the only suitable attire. Not so much as a peep about this?
I don't like to think small, so not so much budgie smugglers, as kakapo smugglers in my case! 
I'll get my coat!avinalarf said:
rscott said:
Tesco have been asked about this many times - they only sell a tiny proportion of unstunned halal and that's clearly labeled as such and sold through specific counters in stores where there's a strong local demand. Most other supermarkets are the same.
The stunned halal is no more or less humane than normal slaughter (at least that's the view of the likes of the RSPCA). Presumably then you have some other reason for wanting to avoid it?
I do not usually post comments on a personal preference.The stunned halal is no more or less humane than normal slaughter (at least that's the view of the likes of the RSPCA). Presumably then you have some other reason for wanting to avoid it?
My debate is informed by my interpretation of a topic,my interpretation is based on that which I read,see or hear.
I try and see both sides of a debate,most topics,not all,I try to view from alternative perspectives.
There are very few Universal Truths.
rscott said:
Completely agree with you - I already condemned unstunned slaughter. I don't see any need for it at all in the UK.
However the vast majority of Halal slaughter here is pre-stunned, which research has shown causes no more suffering than conventional slaughter.
http://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/slau... .
Full agree with you.However the vast majority of Halal slaughter here is pre-stunned, which research has shown causes no more suffering than conventional slaughter.
http://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/slau... .
But I would prefer total transparency on this matter
This meat was slaughtered humanely without any sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughter humanely with sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughtered traditionally with sky fairy principles.
Actually - I would prefer all meat in this country to be slaughtered without any sky fairy input
As.... the religions tend to say... it is acceptable to eat meat this way if it is not available.
Edit: I would prefer it on every pre cooked meal also.
Let the market decide.
Edited by Troubleatmill on Saturday 27th August 20:22
Troubleatmill said:
Full agree with you.
But I would prefer total transparency on this matter
This meat was slaughtered humanely without any sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughter humanely with sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughtered traditionally with sky fairy principles.
Actually - I would prefer all meat in this country to be slaughtered without any sky fairy input
As.... the religions tend to say... it is acceptable to eat meat this way if it is not available.
Edit: I would prefer it on every pre cooked meal also.
Let the market decide.
Why does it bother you eating meat where the animal is killed humanely (an oxymoron in itself)?But I would prefer total transparency on this matter
This meat was slaughtered humanely without any sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughter humanely with sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughtered traditionally with sky fairy principles.
Actually - I would prefer all meat in this country to be slaughtered without any sky fairy input
As.... the religions tend to say... it is acceptable to eat meat this way if it is not available.
Edit: I would prefer it on every pre cooked meal also.
Let the market decide.
Edited by Troubleatmill on Saturday 27th August 20:22
Do you not eat at "Indian"'restaurants either? Or the odd kebab? Or a nice salt beef bagel?
Alpinestars said:
Troubleatmill said:
Full agree with you.
But I would prefer total transparency on this matter
This meat was slaughtered humanely without any sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughter humanely with sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughtered traditionally with sky fairy principles.
Actually - I would prefer all meat in this country to be slaughtered without any sky fairy input
As.... the religions tend to say... it is acceptable to eat meat this way if it is not available.
Edit: I would prefer it on every pre cooked meal also.
Let the market decide.
Why does it bother you eating meat where the animal is killed humanely (an oxymoron in itself)?But I would prefer total transparency on this matter
This meat was slaughtered humanely without any sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughter humanely with sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughtered traditionally with sky fairy principles.
Actually - I would prefer all meat in this country to be slaughtered without any sky fairy input
As.... the religions tend to say... it is acceptable to eat meat this way if it is not available.
Edit: I would prefer it on every pre cooked meal also.
Let the market decide.
Edited by Troubleatmill on Saturday 27th August 20:22
Do you not eat at "Indian"'restaurants either? Or the odd kebab? Or a nice salt beef bagel?
This meat was slaughtered humanely without any sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughter humanely with sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughtered traditionally with sky fairy principles.
being packaged on all food.
And on all food being served in every eatery in the country.
I would accept it in a heart beat.
Will you?
Troubleatmill said:
How could you possibly disagree with...
This meat was slaughtered humanely without any sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughter humanely with sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughtered traditionally with sky fairy principles.
being packaged on all food.
And on all food being served in every eatery in the country.
I would accept it in a heart beat.
Will you?
How much extra are you prepared to pay for ready meals? The meat is often purchased in bulk and may well be halal slaughtered one day and not the next. That status would need to be tracked and printed on the packaging. Most companies would take the easy option and say 'this product may contain pre-stunned halal slaughtered meat' .This meat was slaughtered humanely without any sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughter humanely with sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughtered traditionally with sky fairy principles.
being packaged on all food.
And on all food being served in every eatery in the country.
I would accept it in a heart beat.
Will you?
Simple cuts of meat could be labeled as they already contain the code of the slaughterhouse.
Be interesting to see how the phrasing of the labeling affecting customer purchasing patterns - whether saying' pre-stunned slaughter in line with religious principles' sold more or less than 'pre-stunned halal slaughter'.
Troubleatmill said:
How could you possibly disagree with...
This meat was slaughtered humanely without any sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughter humanely with sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughtered traditionally with sky fairy principles.
being packaged on all food.
And on all food being served in every eatery in the country.
I would accept it in a heart beat.
Will you?
I would. But it doesn't bother me either way. This meat was slaughtered humanely without any sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughter humanely with sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughtered traditionally with sky fairy principles.
being packaged on all food.
And on all food being served in every eatery in the country.
I would accept it in a heart beat.
Will you?
And you didn't answer the questions.
Alpinestars said:
Troubleatmill said:
How could you possibly disagree with...
This meat was slaughtered humanely without any sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughter humanely with sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughtered traditionally with sky fairy principles.
being packaged on all food.
And on all food being served in every eatery in the country.
I would accept it in a heart beat.
Will you?
I would. But it doesn't bother me either way. This meat was slaughtered humanely without any sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughter humanely with sky fairy principles.
This meat was slaughtered traditionally with sky fairy principles.
being packaged on all food.
And on all food being served in every eatery in the country.
I would accept it in a heart beat.
Will you?
And you didn't answer the questions.
For me... it is fully encompassing...
At raw... at ready meal... at restaurant served etc etc
I would like to know the provenance...
Heck... The better half does that when she shops.... at farm shops etc
Make everything traceable.... including the method of slaughter
Mothersruin said:
Was there any clarification as to why my figures were removed and then they're completely verified by the other links?
Very unfair editing and alters the context of my comments.
Disappointing.
I assume because, like several of my posts which have also disappeared, they're unrelated to the original subject. Very unfair editing and alters the context of my comments.
Disappointing.
I'll also heed marshalla's warning and cease discussion of halal slaughter on this thread.
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