60 years of communist china

[yli]

superkartracer said:

yli said:

superkartracer said:

Talking with a few Chinese friends today (i have business interests that import from China) work stops from 1st to 9th Oct, they all get pissed up and have some fun, they seem more than happy with life and are very positive people, unlike 99% the UK! now why is that?

These are highly intelligent people that live there, have the option too live abroad but don't..

I'll take their word rather than what you read in the media.

The thing is people like your friends who have a option to live in China or abroad are very likely to belong to the privilleged class(not all of them but I am pretty sure to say the majority of them). Why would they want to live abroad when in China rules can be bent for their interests or advantage can be gained over other people?

Mix of students and professionals, none of them rich or privileged, one girl i was chatting too moved into the city from the sticks, she seemed very happy! just left college and working hard to purchase a car (cash) aged 24, on loans no HP/cards, just working dam hard. i've no doubt there are many poor people but with such a huge population it's no shock really.

One thing i did notice, they have no real idea how the UK really was! when i explained the issues here they were more than shocked, interesting.

They are very friendly genuine people btw, you gain respect you have friends for life.

Edited by superkartracer on Thursday 1st October 11:09

Good for your friends. But that does not change the fact I said.

Poverty is common in China and yes given the huge population it is very understandable or as you put it not shocking. But if you look into how the privilleged people gathered their money you would be shocked how they did it at the expense of this nation and their other fellow people. That is really what I am talking about.

[Frankeh]

China = worlds new superpower.

So it seems that communism kind of does work sometimes.

[Jasandjules]

superkartracer said:

Talking with a few Chinese friends today (i have business interests that import from China) work stops from 1st to 9th Oct, they all get pissed up and have some fun, they seem more than happy with life and are very positive people, unlike 99% the UK! now why is that?

These are highly intelligent people that live there, have the option too live abroad but don't..

I'll take their word rather than what you read in the media.

They are the wealthy then. The lucky ones. There are many, many, many more people who do not have such a nice existence.

If you want an example, I have a friend who went out to a factory to install some units, the factory was in a relatively rural area. Each night, the workers slept in lorries. 30 men in each lorry overnight. They were locked in as well, and let out in the morning to go back to work. This is of course hearsay, I have only the word of this fellow that such events were witnessed, but I have no reason to doubt him.

[superkartracer]

Jasandjules said:

superkartracer said:

Talking with a few Chinese friends today (i have business interests that import from China) work stops from 1st to 9th Oct, they all get pissed up and have some fun, they seem more than happy with life and are very positive people, unlike 99% the UK! now why is that?

These are highly intelligent people that live there, have the option too live abroad but don't..

I'll take their word rather than what you read in the media.

They are the wealthy then. The lucky ones. There are many, many, many more people who do not have such a nice existence.

If you want an example, I have a friend who went out to a factory to install some units, the factory was in a relatively rural area. Each night, the workers slept in lorries. 30 men in each lorry overnight. They were locked in as well, and let out in the morning to go back to work. This is of course hearsay, I have only the word of this fellow that such events were witnessed, but I have no reason to doubt him.

You'll find the same thing in Birmingham, you would be shocked!. Remember how hot last summer was? 35? i know a chap that worked in a factory in Birmingham, working on press machinery doors locked no windows! the heat was that intense one guy was sick. Wages were not paid, these people being shipped in to work. This factory was being run by Polish owners. If they even dared take a break or talked they were sacked on the spot, i kid you not.

Now how the f**k does that happen in the UK?

Also know of many Asian sweat shops based in brum, not hard to find when you deal in wholesale.

[JagLover]

Frankeh said:

China = worlds new superpower.

So it seems that communism kind of does work sometimes.

Anyone who reimposed central authority after the chaos of the early twentieth century would have seen economic growth rebound.

China has been behind much of the rest of Asia in reintegrating with the world economy and growing accordingly.

Recent growth only looks impressive because it was from such a low base.

[Martial Arts Man]

JagLover said:

Frankeh said:

China = worlds new superpower.

So it seems that communism kind of does work sometimes.

Anyone who reimposed central authority after the chaos of the early twentieth century would have seen economic growth rebound.

China has been behind much of the rest of Asia in reintegrating with the world economy and growing accordingly.

Recent growth only looks impressive because it was from such a low base.

Indeed.

China MAY become the world's new superpower.

Not for a while though.

MAY being the key word here.


My money's on India long term....

[Hugo a Gogo]

JagLover said:

spaximus said:

Whilst we can all have a view, the facts are that China lost 6 million people by starvation before Maow came to power and the west did nothing, and since then no one has starved whilst there were controls.

Countless millions died in Mao's great leap forward.

and not one of them has ever stood up and said "Solly"

[bobbylondonuk]

If the commi party loses its hold on the people of china...it will be civil unrest and the split of mainland china into several provinces.

This is one of the examples where..status quo is better than a new model.

[JagLover]

bobbylondonuk said:

If the commi party loses its hold on the people of china...it will be civil unrest and the split of mainland china into several provinces.

There might well be civil unrest. But why would China split up?. Aside from a few outlying provinces they are ethnically and linguistically homogeneous. Moreover for millenia there has been a unitary state.

[s2art]

JagLover said:

bobbylondonuk said:

If the commi party loses its hold on the people of china...it will be civil unrest and the split of mainland china into several provinces.

There might well be civil unrest. But why would China split up?. Aside from a few outlying provinces they are ethnically and linguistically homogeneous. Moreover for millenia there has been a unitary state.

Is that true? I thought there were several spoken languages in China, although the written language is common to many.

[yli]

s2art said:

JagLover said:

bobbylondonuk said:

If the commi party loses its hold on the people of china...it will be civil unrest and the split of mainland china into several provinces.

There might well be civil unrest. But why would China split up?. Aside from a few outlying provinces they are ethnically and linguistically homogeneous. Moreover for millenia there has been a unitary state.

Is that true? I thought there were several spoken languages in China, although the written language is common to many.

The dialect in different regions varis across the country. But the written language is uniform for hundreds of years.

[tank slapper]

I can imagine the Uyghurs might want independance, as they have done for a long while. Tibet might also like its country back.

[JagLover]

tank slapper said:

I can imagine the Uyghurs might want independance, as they have done for a long while. Tibet might also like its country back.

True enough

But their independence would have minimal impact. My point is that the main part of China is not likely to break up given a change of leadership.

[bobbylondonuk]

70million people of the western world in a small little island cannot use democracy to sort themselves out and maintain a good standard of living based on good moral ethical values.

what would happen to 1billion of who majority are in poverty if they were given absolute freedom? Atleast the commis of china move with the times in terms of modernisation, western trade ideas, education etc...corruption is a part of life in any country so no big deal if you see it in china.

If you play the game...you win...if you play against the game you lose!

why is it so tough for us to get it? I would be surprised to hear that the majority of people of china have not seen their life get better over the last 15 years. Keeping in mind that all development happens outwards from inner cities and this particular society has over 1billion to keep happy!

[JagLover]

bobbylondonuk said:

70million people of the western world in a small little island cannot use democracy to sort themselves out and maintain a good standard of living based on good moral ethical values.

what would happen to 1billion of who majority are in poverty if they were given absolute freedom? Atleast the commis of china move with the times in terms of modernisation, western trade ideas, education etc...corruption is a part of life in any country so no big deal if you see it in china.

India has a thriving democracy.

A dictatorship is not a prequisite of a thriving economy and social stability.

China was held back for years by the Communists. It was only when they ditched their economic dogmas that China started to grow.

[bobbylondonuk]

JagLover said:

bobbylondonuk said:

70million people of the western world in a small little island cannot use democracy to sort themselves out and maintain a good standard of living based on good moral ethical values.

what would happen to 1billion of who majority are in poverty if they were given absolute freedom? Atleast the commis of china move with the times in terms of modernisation, western trade ideas, education etc...corruption is a part of life in any country so no big deal if you see it in china.

India has a thriving democracy.

A dictatorship is not a prequisite of a thriving economy and social stability.

China was held back for years by the Communists. It was only when they ditched their economic dogmas that China started to grow.

Indian democracy has made a difference to the ordinary people only for the past 15-20 years. It was all about exploiting the avg indian's religion, caste and cultural beleif systems to attain power for the very few. Even now its all about money and sectarian politics! Today, Indians have better education, better exposure to the outside world, and the media are free from being hunted down by political henchmen. This makes a difference, not democracy.

China is way behind in development of an individual compared to india...maybe china will be ready to embrace multi party democracy in the next 10-15yrs. I dont think the majority of the population of china will understand the benefits of it now and corruption will only increase as compared to the current commi set up. All i am saying is better a known devil than an unknown one!

[Hugo a Gogo]

yli said:

s2art said:

JagLover said:

bobbylondonuk said:

If the commi party loses its hold on the people of china...it will be civil unrest and the split of mainland china into several provinces.

There might well be civil unrest. But why would China split up?. Aside from a few outlying provinces they are ethnically and linguistically homogeneous. Moreover for millenia there has been a unitary state.

Is that true? I thought there were several spoken languages in China, although the written language is common to many.

The dialect in different regions varis across the country. But the written language is uniform for hundreds of years.

why have Renminbi Yuan (bank notes) got 4 languages on them then?

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Thursday 1st October 16:00

[yli]

Hugo a Gogo said:

yli said:

[quote=s2art

why have Renminbi Yuan (bank notes) got 4 languages on them then?

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Thursday 1st October 16:00

Oh sorry. To be precise, apart from Tibet, Muslim in Xinjiang, some parts in Inner Monglia and Guangxi Province the other places of China have different dialects but uniform written language:that would be over 90 percent of the population and 70 percent of the land that share exactly the same written language. Actually there are five languages in the bank notes corresponding to the above mentioned ethic groups.

[yli]

bobbylondonuk said:

JagLover said:

bobbylondonuk said:

70million people of the western world in a small little island cannot use democracy to sort themselves out and maintain a good standard of living based on good moral ethical values.

what would happen to 1billion of who majority are in poverty if they were given absolute freedom? Atleast the commis of china move with the times in terms of modernisation, western trade ideas, education etc...corruption is a part of life in any country so no big deal if you see it in china.

India has a thriving democracy.

A dictatorship is not a prequisite of a thriving economy and social stability.

China was held back for years by the Communists. It was only when they ditched their economic dogmas that China started to grow.

Indian democracy has made a difference to the ordinary people only for the past 15-20 years. It was all about exploiting the avg indian's religion, caste and cultural beleif systems to attain power for the very few. Even now its all about money and sectarian politics! Today, Indians have better education, better exposure to the outside world, and the media are free from being hunted down by political henchmen. This makes a difference, not democracy.

China is way behind in development of an individual compared to india...maybe china will be ready to embrace multi party democracy in the next 10-15yrs. I dont think the majority of the population of china will understand the benefits of it now and corruption will only increase as compared to the current commi set up. All i am saying is better a known devil than an unknown one!

What you said about India's democracy is very different from what I heard from the BBC's inerview with the Election Committee of India(not sure I got the name of the committe right).

And how could you know that the corruption will increase if China adopts a democratic system?

[Jimbeaux]

spaximus said:

Whilst we can all have a view, the facts are that China lost 6 million people by starvation before Maow came to power and the west did nothing, and since then no one has starved whilst there were controls. Yes there are issues of freedom but that affetcs mainly those who would prosper in any country where they were free. Ordinary people like security, knowing they have a job and medical care.

I have freinds who go to Russia on a regular basis, and the majority of Russians were better off under state control, only a small percentage have become rich at others expense.

China is no different,

Well, that didn't take long.