60 years of communist china

[yli]

s2art said:

yli said:

Jimbeaux said:

T89 Callan said:

excersizer said:

yli, I've somehow gotten the impression that Chinese people are nationalistic and very proud of their country. How true is this?

I know this has already been answered but as an aside I read a 100+ page report at JLR into the emerging car market in China.

Turns out that the Chinese are actually turned off by domestically produced cars, JLR can charge a premium because they don't produce in China wereas BMW/VW etc have damaged their brand by setting up production in China.

Also Chinese made cars have a 'made in china' badge fitted which is nearly always removed.

Before anyone argues this is a tiny summary of a massive report, I can't be bothered to reproduce it all hear.

The best selling foreign car there is apparently a Buick. .

Really? I thought the best selling car should be Jetta from VW. It is cheap to buy and maintain. It is also very reliable as well.

AS a matter of interest how are the Rovers doing?

I really do not know it as the deal with Rover seems very complex. I understand that one Chinese company bought its R&D resources and another one just bought its production line and the right to use the brand? The former went on to create a new brand using the technology they have bought. And from what I saw on the streets they are doing not bad. Also lauched quite a few adverts. In comparison the latter seems very quiet. Very rare saw it on the tele. Not very common to see on the streets. So in general shall I say Rovers are doing not great?

[tank slapper]

alfabadass said:

The arrogance of the OP is offensive!

It looks like China is doing pretty good for itself.

Please elaborate - In what way is my post arrogant, or inaccurate?

[Jimbeaux]

yli said:

Jimbeaux said:

T89 Callan said:

excersizer said:

yli, I've somehow gotten the impression that Chinese people are nationalistic and very proud of their country. How true is this?

I know this has already been answered but as an aside I read a 100+ page report at JLR into the emerging car market in China.

Turns out that the Chinese are actually turned off by domestically produced cars, JLR can charge a premium because they don't produce in China wereas BMW/VW etc have damaged their brand by setting up production in China.

Also Chinese made cars have a 'made in china' badge fitted which is nearly always removed.

Before anyone argues this is a tiny summary of a massive report, I can't be bothered to reproduce it all hear.

The best selling foreign car there is apparently a Buick. .

Really? I thought the best selling car should be Jetta from VW. It is cheap to buy and maintain. It is also very reliable as well.

I heard it was a Buick built in a joint venture. Apparently, a prestige thing. The jetta and Corolla are doing well too, maybe better by now.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/06/22/gm-hits-two-mil...

Edited by Jimbeaux on Friday 2nd October 16:37

[Frankeh]

Jimbeaux said:

Frankeh said:

Jimbeaux said:

Frankeh said:

Jimbeaux said:

Frankeh said:

China = worlds new superpower.

So it seems that communism kind of does work sometimes.

Yet another stupid statement. You are consistent, I will give you that.

China will get there. In 10 years I wont be at all surprised if they're more influential than the USA.

If so, it will not be that quick IMO. Their internal politics and their economy are on perpedicular paths. Either the communists will change and allow the common people a chance to build a middle class, or the government will grow and crack down on such ambitions, thus stifiling the growth. Something will have to give.

Highlighted what will happen.

Edited by Frankeh on Friday 2nd October 12:57

That would require the Commies to willingly give up power and enter the world of electoral politics. Do you believe they are planning to do that?

No. But they'll realise soon they'll have to at least adapt.
And it doesn't mean they'll have to become a democracy.

[Jimbeaux]

Frankeh said:

Jimbeaux said:

Frankeh said:

Jimbeaux said:

Frankeh said:

Jimbeaux said:

Frankeh said:

China = worlds new superpower.

So it seems that communism kind of does work sometimes.

Yet another stupid statement. You are consistent, I will give you that.

China will get there. In 10 years I wont be at all surprised if they're more influential than the USA.

If so, it will not be that quick IMO. Their internal politics and their economy are on perpedicular paths. Either the communists will change and allow the common people a chance to build a middle class, or the government will grow and crack down on such ambitions, thus stifiling the growth. Something will have to give.

Highlighted what will happen.

Edited by Frankeh on Friday 2nd October 12:57

That would require the Commies to willingly give up power and enter the world of electoral politics. Do you believe they are planning to do that?

No. But they'll realise soon they'll have to at least adapt.
And it doesn't mean they'll have to become a democracy.

True, but how does one adapt enough to appease without becoming a Democracy or without losing power/control?

[Jimbeaux]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Thank you, that is exactly what I said, "foreign built".

[elster]

Jimbeaux said:

True, but how does one adapt enough to appease without becoming a Democracy or without losing power/control?

Just become a so called democracy. I can't really think of any proper democratic countries any more.

[Jimbeaux]

elster said:

Jimbeaux said:

True, but how does one adapt enough to appease without becoming a Democracy or without losing power/control?

Just become a so called democracy. I can't really think of any proper democratic countries any more.

Perhaps not by definition; perhaps there really haven't been any "proper" ones; however, the ones we have are a hell of a lot closer to "proper" than what they have IMO.

[yli]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

We got three categories here: 1, pure domestic brand, like Geeley, Chery etc. 2, foreign brand but the cars were built by the joint ventures established by the foreign companies and their Chinese partners, like Ford Focus, Toyota Camery, Hond Accord etc. 3, foreign brand and the cars were imported whick meant they were built abroad, like Ferrari, Porsche, some BMWs and Benz etc.

I would say only the cars in high price bracket of each foeign brand and the luxury brands were built abroad and imported into Chinese market. For instance, M series BMWs, S class Benz, all the Ferraris and Porsches etc. Cars in low and middle price bracket of each brand were built by the joint ventures, like Ford Focus, 3 series BMW(you can still buy a imported one though).

Jetta is still classified as an foreign brand as they got VW badge on them.

[Bing o]

Jimbeaux said:

elster said:

Jimbeaux said:

True, but how does one adapt enough to appease without becoming a Democracy or without losing power/control?

Just become a so called democracy. I can't really think of any proper democratic countries any more.

Perhaps not by definition; perhaps there really haven't been any "proper" ones; however, the ones we have are a hell of a lot closer to "proper" than what they have IMO.

And that's why our democracies are such a success, what with their bankrupt economies, illegal wars and unelected EU Presidents?

[Jimbeaux]

Bing o said:

Jimbeaux said:

elster said:

Jimbeaux said:

True, but how does one adapt enough to appease without becoming a Democracy or without losing power/control?

Just become a so called democracy. I can't really think of any proper democratic countries any more.

Perhaps not by definition; perhaps there really haven't been any "proper" ones; however, the ones we have are a hell of a lot closer to "proper" than what they have IMO.

And that's why our democracies are such a success, what with their bankrupt economies, illegal wars and unelected EU Presidents?

There are many better things about them than the bad things you mention. Don't be silly.

[Hugo a Gogo]

Bing o said:

Jimbeaux said:

elster said:

Jimbeaux said:

True, but how does one adapt enough to appease without becoming a Democracy or without losing power/control?

Just become a so called democracy. I can't really think of any proper democratic countries any more.

Perhaps not by definition; perhaps there really haven't been any "proper" ones; however, the ones we have are a hell of a lot closer to "proper" than what they have IMO.

And that's why our democracies are such a success, what with their bankrupt economies, illegal wars and unelected Prime Minister?

EFA

[elster]

Jimbeaux said:

Bing o said:

Jimbeaux said:

elster said:

Jimbeaux said:

True, but how does one adapt enough to appease without becoming a Democracy or without losing power/control?

Just become a so called democracy. I can't really think of any proper democratic countries any more.

Perhaps not by definition; perhaps there really haven't been any "proper" ones; however, the ones we have are a hell of a lot closer to "proper" than what they have IMO.

And that's why our democracies are such a success, what with their bankrupt economies, illegal wars and unelected EU Presidents?

There are many better things about them than the bad things you mention. Don't be silly.

I'm not so sure any more.

[Jimbeaux]

elster said:

Jimbeaux said:

Bing o said:

Jimbeaux said:

elster said:

Jimbeaux said:

True, but how does one adapt enough to appease without becoming a Democracy or without losing power/control?

Just become a so called democracy. I can't really think of any proper democratic countries any more.

Perhaps not by definition; perhaps there really haven't been any "proper" ones; however, the ones we have are a hell of a lot closer to "proper" than what they have IMO.

And that's why our democracies are such a success, what with their bankrupt economies, illegal wars and unelected EU Presidents?

There are many better things about them than the bad things you mention. Don't be silly.

I'm not so sure any more.

I think if you were suddenly made to live under one of the other options, you would become sure very quickly.

[uk_vette]

T89 Callan said:

Meh, it could have been worse. They could have had 60 years of labour.

Isn't it just that when labour get in, they half undo what the previous government did.
Then the government swaps, and they undo and reverse, half of what the outgoing government did.

Its like 3 steps forward, and 2 steps back.
May be a 1 party is a better way forward ?

'vette

[AndrewW-G]

uk_vette said:

T89 Callan said:

Meh, it could have been worse. They could have had 60 years of labour.

Isn't it just that when labour get in, they half undo what the previous government did.
Then the government swaps, and they undo and reverse, half of what the outgoing government did.

Its like 3 steps forward, and 2 steps back.
May be a 1 party is a better way forward ?

'vette

No,

Labour get in and as soon as they can start spending more than we have on flights of fancy . . . then as soon as we've run out of money, all the staggeringly stupid people, who believed that everything was hunky dory, start to feel the pain, the conservatives then get back in, painfully get the country back on track, before the next load of idiots vote for another flavour of labour

For an idea of how stupid some of the labour vote are, in the last election, over 5,000 people voted for racingdude009 off here (lab candidate for part of Cambridgeshire) . . . .two weeks after he'd been deselected by the labour party for various unlawful and unethical acts