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turbobloke

Original Poster:

62,494 posts

147 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all

WattsUpWithThat said:
It appears that the proverbial Climate Science Cat is out of the bag.



I’m currently traveling and writing this from an aiprort, but here is what I know so far:

An unknown person put postings on some climate skeptic websites that advertsied an FTP file on a Russian FTP server, here is the message that was placed on the Air Vent today:

We feel that climate science is, in the current situation, too important to be kept under wraps.

We hereby release a random selection of correspondence, code, and documents

The file was large, about 61 megabytes, containing hundreds of files.

It contained data, code, and emails from Phil Jones at CRU to and from many people.

I’ve seen the file, it appears to be genuine and from CRU. Others who have seen it concur- it appears genuine. There are so many files it appears unlikely that it is a hoax. The effort would be too great.

Here is some of the emails just posted at Climate Audit on this thread:

http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=7801#comments

I’ve redacted email addresses and direct phone numbers for the moment. The emails all have US public universities in the email addresses, making them public/FOIA actionable I beleive.

Developing story – more later




If this story turns out to be on the money - as Watts says the effort to produce something artificial would appear far too great while the content is too detailed and credible - there will be more than sticks in pieces from today.

Click the link below to a small portion of the e-mails and files reportedly released from UEA CRU by a hacker. This is potentially explosive. There is content involving Jones, Osborn, Briffa, Mann, Bradely, Hughes, alleging content and messages with e.g.:

- pleasure at the tragic and untimely death of climate realist 'Still Waiting for Greenhouse' John Daly "In an odd way this is cheering news !"

- using "Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline"

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/19/breaking-new...


Who knows how this will evolve.

turbobloke

Original Poster:

62,494 posts

147 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
More content here, with the same 'due caution' warning.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/inde...

Westy Pre-Lit

4,756 posts

90 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
As the last thread was closed I'll add my comment here as well. biggrin

Not had time to read it all, but does make for very interesting reading indeed.......oh dearhehenice find.

Wonder how long it will take before certain people go missing.

turbobloke

Original Poster:

62,494 posts

147 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
Some comments with some from individuals claiming to have seen the files.

"OK this is pretty damning if true. Apparently this file dump contains not only admissions in correspondence that the 'hockey stick' was a lie (and they are trying to cover it up) & how they can fool the populace of the UK. This stuff is pretty sick and damning."


"While this may be an elaborate hoax, I tend to doubt it. A hoax would require more competence than bureaucrats are capable of. It sure is a fascinating development."


"Gavin Schmidts Real-Climate has all but shutdown blogging tonight as they scurry like cockroaches in the light."

And apparently a new location for the file itself:
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5171206

Guam

22,051 posts

155 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
turbobloke said:
Some comments with some from individuals claiming to have seen the files.

"OK this is pretty damning if true. Apparently this file dump contains not only admissions in correspondence that the 'hockey stick' was a lie (and they are trying to cover it up) & how they can fool the populace of the UK. This stuff is pretty sick and damning."


"While this may be an elaborate hoax, I tend to doubt it. A hoax would require more competence than bureaucrats are capable of. It sure is a fascinating development."


"Gavin Schmidts Real-Climate has all but shutdown blogging tonight as they scurry like cockroaches in the light."

And apparently a new location for the file itself:
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5171206
I worry about this TB, if this is a partial Hoax (with faked email in genuine data) it could do great damage to the Skeptic side of the debate, of course if true it wil bury the pro AGW arguement, what is needed here is for respected scientists to be making demands (nay screaming) for the release of the original information under the FOIA in the US and here in the UK.


Given I have been subjected to attacks commercially, using faked emails I would caution restraint on this stuff until verified imho smile


Cheers
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turbobloke

Original Poster:

62,494 posts

147 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
Guam said:
turbobloke said:
Some comments with some from individuals claiming to have seen the files.

"OK this is pretty damning if true. Apparently this file dump contains not only admissions in correspondence that the 'hockey stick' was a lie (and they are trying to cover it up) & how they can fool the populace of the UK. This stuff is pretty sick and damning."


"While this may be an elaborate hoax, I tend to doubt it. A hoax would require more competence than bureaucrats are capable of. It sure is a fascinating development."


"Gavin Schmidts Real-Climate has all but shutdown blogging tonight as they scurry like cockroaches in the light."

And apparently a new location for the file itself:
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5171206
I worry about this TB
Cheers
Exactly my approach, you will see "if true" and "due caution" in my posts on this thread, and although I have the full file on disk I'm only posting direct comments from others.

Steve McIntyre has confirmed that the e-mails in the hacked content purportedly from him, e-mails that he previously sent to those implicated, are "100% genuine".

So, watch this space.

Jasandjules

51,447 posts

116 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
There is an easy way to prove it/disprove it. The UEA can release a copy of it's e-mail archive to a third party so that a search can be performed to find these e-mails. The simplicity of disproving it is why I would suspect that they are genuine. Of course, if they are fake, the reasonable (they call it sceptic) position would be damaged badly.

Of course, if the UEA were to refuse to provide their archives to a third party, I think we'd have our answer.

Though thinking at a tangent, are we looking at criminal matters here? At which point the police can sieze the computers and the data.


ludo

5,105 posts

91 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
Guam said:
turbobloke said:
Some comments with some from individuals claiming to have seen the files.

"OK this is pretty damning if true. Apparently this file dump contains not only admissions in correspondence that the 'hockey stick' was a lie (and they are trying to cover it up) & how they can fool the populace of the UK. This stuff is pretty sick and damning."


"While this may be an elaborate hoax, I tend to doubt it. A hoax would require more competence than bureaucrats are capable of. It sure is a fascinating development."


"Gavin Schmidts Real-Climate has all but shutdown blogging tonight as they scurry like cockroaches in the light."

And apparently a new location for the file itself:
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5171206
I worry about this TB, if this is a partial Hoax (with faked email in genuine data) it could do great damage to the Skeptic side of the debate, of course if true it wil bury the pro AGW arguement, what is needed here is for respected scientists to be making demands (nay screaming) for the release of the original information under the FOIA in the US and here in the UK.


Given I have been subjected to attacks commercially, using faked emails I would caution restraint on this stuff until verified imho smile


Cheers
for once I agree with Guam, in full, without the need for the wink , especially about the bit I have highlighted, a healthy scientific debate is required and if a hoax, this will be a spectacular own goal by the deniers, at the expense of the true sceptics, which would be a bad thing for all concerned.

turbobloke

Original Poster:

62,494 posts

147 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
Jasandjules said:
There is an easy way to prove it/disprove it. The UEA can release a copy of it's e-mail archive to a third party so that a search can be performed to find these e-mails. The simplicity of disproving it is why I would suspect that they are genuine. Of course, if they are fake, the reasonable (they call it sceptic) position would be damaged badly.

Of course, if the UEA were to refuse to provide their archives to a third party, I think we'd have our answer.

Though thinking at a tangent, are we looking at criminal matters here? At which point the police can sieze the computers and the data.
Fair point. Incidentally, no disrespect to deeps for the overnight b(l}ag but this needed a thread. First time in a long while my inbox had nearly as much genuine mail as overnight spam that evaded the filter smile

turbobloke

Original Poster:

62,494 posts

147 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
More caution evident in this response:

http://rankexploits.com/musings/2009/real-files-or...

Click the link to see more content that, if faked, is astonishing wobble

In keeping with the caveat I won't be posting actual file content, my view is that if real this is truly the end of the road but if fake somebody ELSE is going to jail. Some snips below:



You get to see somebody with the name of Phil Jones say that he would rather destroy the CRU data than release it to McIntyre.

And lots lots more. Including how to obstruct or evade FOIA requests. and guess who funded the collection of cores at Yamal.. and transferred money into a personal account in Russia.

And you get to see what they really say behind the curtain..you get to see how they “shape” the news, how they struggled between telling the truth and making policy makers happy.

You get to see what they say about Idso and pat micheals, you get to read how they want to take us out into a dark alley, it’s stunning all very stunning. You get to watch somebody named phil jones say that John daly’s death is good news.. or words to that effect.

I don’t know that its real..

But the CRU code looks real

turbobloke

Original Poster:

62,494 posts

147 months

turbobloke

Original Poster:

62,494 posts

147 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
More for the 'real or fake' debate to get chewing on, from WUWT


http://briefingroom.typepad.com/the_briefing_room/...

The director of Britain’s leading Climate Research Unit, Phil Jones, has told Investigate magazine’s TGIF Edition tonight that his organization has been hacked, and the data flying all over the internet appears to be genuine.

In an exclusive interview, Jones told TGIF, “It was a hacker. We were aware of this about three or four days ago that someone had hacked into our system and taken and copied loads of data files and emails.”

“Have you alerted police”

“Not yet. We were not aware of what had been taken.”

Jones says he was first tipped off to the security breach by colleagues at the website RealClimate.

“Real Climate were given information, but took it down off their site and told me they would send it across to me. They didn’t do that. I only found out it had been released five minutes ago.”


chris watton

15,939 posts

147 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
I'm not one to grass, but it was TB!

hehe

(Hope this is all true! - not the TB bit, though.....)

Guam

22,051 posts

155 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
Notwithstanding my comments above I (like many I suspect) have been reading through some of this stuff, if it is indeed true then it blows this whole thing sky high.

Still cant help feeling extremely uneasy tbh!



Cheers

jshell

5,998 posts

92 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
Is there any way they can talk their way out of this? Does it just add to the debate, or is it a the final nail?

10 Pence Short

32,880 posts

104 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
Was there ever any doubt?

Labour spin doctors were briefing the politicians onhow to present this b*llocks years ago. Along the lines of: "We need to start talking about climate change as if it is a proven fact, rather than a possible one. The more we do this, the more people will believe it as a fact".

Disgusting lies making individuals rich on other's misery, the whole thing.

hornetrider

49,145 posts

92 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
Can anyone give some kind of executive summary of this shenanigans?! silly

turbobloke

Original Poster:

62,494 posts

147 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
Also worth noting that much web coverage is referring to this as 'Hadley' but Hadley is UKMO, this is UEA CRU.

Digga

13,608 posts

170 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
Unusually for me - not averse to wading into an argument with ill-informed opinion and little intellect - I've generally sat on the sidelines of the many and various PH 'climate' debates.

I think mankind might be consuming resources a little too quickly, this might concievably change climate, and our reliance on oil might just be a politically difficult issue which leads us to be continually held over a barrell (and shafted) by OPEC. But then I also have petrol pumping through my veins and enjoy burning hydrocarbons on behalf of those who live on lentis and drive electric (or clockwork or whatever) cars.

This hack however is a seismic shift in the debate.

Phil Jones of Hadley CRU said:
TGIF asked Jones about the controversial email discussing "hiding the decline", and Jones explained what he was trying to say….
There cannot be any scientific explanation for this sort of fudging. Less still by a publicly funded body.

Guam

22,051 posts

155 months

[news] 
Friday 20th November 2009 quote quote all
If this one proves to be true then this Guy for one should be sent by fastest possible means to his nearest Job Centre, this would be the most damning inditement of any Academic I can think of.

"This one was interesting…if true….

From: Phil Jones
To: “Michael E. Mann”
Subject: IPCC & FOI
Date: Thu May 29 11:04:11 2008

Mike,

Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4?
Keith will do likewise. He’s not in at the moment – minor family crisis.
Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? I don’t
have his new email address.
We will be getting Caspar to do likewise.
I see that CA claim they discovered the 1945 problem in the Nature paper!!
Cheers
Phil

Prof. Phil Jones
Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) 1603 592090
School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) 1603 507784
University of East Anglia
Norwich EmailXXXXXXXXXXX
NR4 7TJ
UK"

TB or Ludo can you comment on the 1945 problem they refer to (that would give some indication of potential truth on at least this email imho)

Edited by Guam on Friday 20th November 09:32

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