Amanda Knox

[Dr Jekyll]

HIS LM said:

Did the prosecution ever get to the bottom of why Knox was allegedly buying cleaning materials very early on a Sunday morning and why Rafael's knives were scrubbed spotlessly clean and why when arrested Knox implicated the bar owner Lamumba and why the glass was on the floor after the break in but not on the clothes

The so called 'implication' of Lumumba was a document the police claimed was a confession by Knox to murdering Kercher with the aid of Lumumba. Knox claimed she had been pressured to write a hypothetical account of how it could have happened so the reports that she 'accused' Lumumba are misleading.

I don't know why buying cleaning materials and cleaning the knives is relevant. If they really had removed their fingerprints and DNA from the scene as the prosecution suggest they could hardly have left Rudy Guede's splattered about the place.

As for glass, the pattern left after a window is broken can be unpredictable.

[telecat]

HIS LM said:

Did the prosecution ever get to the bottom of why Knox was allegedly buying cleaning materials very early on a Sunday morning and why Rafael's knives were scrubbed spotlessly clean and why when arrested Knox implicated the bar owner Lamumba and why the glass was on the floor after the break in but not on the clothes

Sadly Rudy will never be a credible witness even when after his release he tells his version as I feel sure he will

The Kercher family have remained dignified throughout this bungled process I wonder how they really feel ?

As regards the Kercher Family, Meredith's mother at least, has been anything but dignified at times.

[youngsyr]

HIS LM said:

Did the prosecution ever get to the bottom of why Knox was allegedly buying cleaning materials very early on a Sunday morning and why Rafael's knives were scrubbed spotlessly clean and why when arrested Knox implicated the bar owner Lamumba and why the glass was on the floor after the break in but not on the clothes

Sadly Rudy will never be a credible witness even when after his release he tells his version as I feel sure he will

The Kercher family have remained dignified throughout this bungled process I wonder how they really feel ?

There were two people working in the shop that Knox allegedly bought cleaning supplies from the morning following the murder, the owner and an assistant.

The owner says he saw Knox, the assistant says she didn't.

The "double DNA knife" is another dodgy aspect - it supposedly has both Knox's and (extremely small amount of) Kercher's DNA on it, but the testing wasn't carried out correctly by an accredited lab, the knife doesn't match a knife print made in blood on Kercher's bedding material and the knife is "inconsistent" with at least one of the wounds made on Kercher.

The burglary certainly looks to have been staged, but that doesn't tell you who staged it, it could have been Guede.

The implication of the bar manager has been covered above.

[br d]

It's done and dusted as somebody already said.

However, Knox changed her story 5 times as new evidence arose that contradicted her account. If that's the actions of an innocent then I'm a defence lawyer.

[youngsyr]

br d said:

It's done and dusted as somebody already said.

However, Knox changed her story 5 times as new evidence arose that contradicted her account. If that's the actions of an innocent then I'm a defence lawyer.

You should have mentioned that to the jury and appeal judges, such overwhelming evidence of her guilt could have saved them 7 years of trials, not to mention arriving at the wrong conclusion.

[Martin4x4]

bhstewie said:

On the flip side there is often an assumption that anyone British (I know Knox is American) charged or found guilty of a crime overseas is being stitched up by some dodgy corrupt tin pot regime.

Especially when a well funded PR machine perpetuates that view.

[FourWheelDrift]

bhstewie said:

some dodgy corrupt tin pot regime.

And that's being kind to the Italians.

[Martin4x4]

FourWheelDrift said:

And that's being kind to the Americans.

fixed that for you.

[Don]

telecat said:

As regards the Kercher Family, Meredith's mother at least, has been anything but dignified at times.

I have sympathy for her. Her little girl was murdered. She doesn't have to be dignified. She can scream the house down in grief if she wants. I know that's how I would feel if it was my sister/niece let alone child.

But that doesn't mean the Italians haven't tried their best to put a stty situation right - after a very, very bad start. At least Guede's been caught. Occam's razor would dictate he acted alone.

There's nothing good here. Nothing at all.

[br d]

youngsyr said:

br d said:

It's done and dusted as somebody already said.

However, Knox changed her story 5 times as new evidence arose that contradicted her account. If that's the actions of an innocent then I'm a defence lawyer.

You should have mentioned that to the jury and appeal judges, such overwhelming evidence of her guilt could have saved them 7 years of trials, not to mention arriving at the wrong conclusion.

You're right of course.
Because every case, at every time, in every country, under every justice system has always been resolved correctly.

[youngsyr]

br d said:

youngsyr said:

br d said:

It's done and dusted as somebody already said.

However, Knox changed her story 5 times as new evidence arose that contradicted her account. If that's the actions of an innocent then I'm a defence lawyer.

You should have mentioned that to the jury and appeal judges, such overwhelming evidence of her guilt could have saved them 7 years of trials, not to mention arriving at the wrong conclusion.

You're right of course.
Because every case, at every time, in every country, under every justice system has always been resolved correctly.

Indeed. Clearly where they've been going wrong is not basing their entire decision on whether the defendant has changed their story, to the exclusion of all the other evidence.

[robsa]

Salon.com have published an article clarifying much of the information in case. Very interesting read.
http://www.salon.com/2015/03/27/amanda_knox_verdic...

[youngsyr]

robsa said:

Salon.com have published an article clarifying much of the information in case. Very interesting read.
http://www.salon.com/2015/03/27/amanda_knox_verdic...

Doesn't really clarify anything - it's far from an objective examination of the evidence - more of a rail-roading to a conclusion of guilt.

Fails to mention that the DNA on the knife was low copy number and analysed by an unaccredited lab, meaning the result cannot be relied upon - that's not an opinion, it's a legal fact in many countries, including the UK.

Also fails to mention that the bra clasp (which is the only link to Sollecito) was dropped by the forensic police, kicked around the room and then left for over 40 days before being found and then tested.

Futhermore, there were absolutely no traces of either Knox or Sollecito on the body or in the room where she was killed (except on the above bra clasp for Sollecito), but traces of Guede all over the place.

It's true that there's probably enough evidence to convict her, but there's ample evidence to cast a reasonable doubt too - so on balance she should be free.

[HIS LM]

Youngsyr you appear to be well read on the subject what is your view on the case are they guilty or innocent

[youngsyr]

HIS LM said:

Youngsyr you appear to be well read on the subject what is your view on the case are they guilty or innocent

I've read a few books and seen a few documentaries - I guess I'm interested because I did a very similar foreign exchange programme as Meredith just a few years before, only to France rather than Italy and I know quite a few people who did it to Italy.

Anyway, I've said several times in this thread that you can't really call it either way - no version of events that fits all the known facts makes any sense for what happened that night, so any attempt at working out what happens just ends up in a story that sounds unbelievable.

Guede (at least) worked hard to hide the truth, the police investigation was botched and Knox and Sollecito's testimonies are full of holes, so I doubt we'll ever know the truth.

There are plenty of pointers that indicate Knox's involvement (she was found guilty initially, after all), but I could just as easily put up a convincing argument that she had nothing to do with it, so legally it's only right that she's found innocent.

My personal opinion, on balance, is that it's most likely that Guede acted alone on the night and Knox isn't telling the whole truth about what she did when she returned to the flat that morning. Perhaps she stepped in blood/got it on her clothes before she worked out what had happened and then panicked and tried to clean it up, then got further and further into it and felt she couldn't then tell the whole truth.

There's no doubt in my mind that Guede was the one who actually killed Meredith though. I have no idea why, most likely neither does he.

[HIS LM]

Thank a very interesting story with endless theory and speculation that will run for many a year I guess with the case finally closed the next big event will be the release of Guede and no doubt his version of events (again) but sadly for him his credibility is shot. When is he due for release ?

I must have missed the outspoken comments from Meredith's mother must have a google and find out

[telecat]

It seems Guede is a bit of a fantasist. Had plenty of opportunities due to being taken in by a well off family but seems to have blown that start and they asked him to leave then a succession of incidents involving knives, drugs and theft lead up to Meredith's murder. Much of what followed is down to his changing his story to match that the Newspaper's were publishing and his defense using it to get a better sentence for him.

[youngsyr]

I suspect it's partially to do with the human self-defence mechanism to protect what's left of your sanity after having committed such a heinous act - you bury reality somewhere deep in your subconscious and concoct a story for your conscious mind where you're not to blame/weren't involved/was an accident/etc.

You see it quite a lot with convicted murderers - they seem to genuinely believe that they didn't do what has been proven without doubt that they did.

[Mermaid]

Do young, good looking, educated,rich, accomplished, Yankee/Brits have the dice loaded in their favour in international courts?

[LucreLout]

Mermaid said:

Do young, good looking, educated,rich, accomplished, Yankee/Brits have the dice loaded in their favour in international courts?

If the male half of the jury is going back to the hotel and having wk fantasies about the defendant, then yes, probably.