Climate Change Kills Third Heathrow Runway.
Discussion
Collectingbrass said:
Heathrow was selected by the Air Ministry as the site for London's international airport in 1943 and construction started in April 1944.
The Wilson government set up the Roskill commission to look at solving airport capacity problems for London in 1968.
The Callaghan government recognised Heathrow was to be the London hub airport and the site for future expansion in 1978, as did the Thatcher government in 1979.
It's been there for 60 years, expansion to 3 or more runways has been a possibility for 47 years and on the cards as a definite at some point for the last 37 years.
And this isn't about the aspirations of the airport owner, it's about the NEED of the UK economy to reach many more destinations than the current airline capacity from the UK can service.
I need to declare an interest at this point, I'm a civil engineer , currently work at Heathrow and have been delivering national crtitical infrastructure (M3, Jubilee line extension, coal mines, town bypasses etc) for the last 20 years that have been delayed by gutless politicians and short sighted selfish nimbys and I've seen the benefits they bring, even to the Nimbys. I just want to get on with this before we become a bankrupt back water while Holland, Frande and Germany romp away.
Where are all these destinations that we don't currently fly to from Heathrow (or any other "London" airport) that the economic fate of the country rests upon?The Wilson government set up the Roskill commission to look at solving airport capacity problems for London in 1968.
The Callaghan government recognised Heathrow was to be the London hub airport and the site for future expansion in 1978, as did the Thatcher government in 1979.
It's been there for 60 years, expansion to 3 or more runways has been a possibility for 47 years and on the cards as a definite at some point for the last 37 years.
And this isn't about the aspirations of the airport owner, it's about the NEED of the UK economy to reach many more destinations than the current airline capacity from the UK can service.
I need to declare an interest at this point, I'm a civil engineer , currently work at Heathrow and have been delivering national crtitical infrastructure (M3, Jubilee line extension, coal mines, town bypasses etc) for the last 20 years that have been delayed by gutless politicians and short sighted selfish nimbys and I've seen the benefits they bring, even to the Nimbys. I just want to get on with this before we become a bankrupt back water while Holland, Frande and Germany romp away.
Edited by Collectingbrass on Wednesday 15th July 07:31
A quick google suggests..... The Carribean
Hackney said:
Where are all these destinations that we don't currently fly to from Heathrow (or any other "London" airport) that the economic fate of the country rests upon?
A quick google suggests..... The Carribean
First hit on Google http://your.heathrow.com/takingbritainfurther/boos...A quick google suggests..... The Carribean
jakesmith said:
Scuffers said:
On that basis, We should build a new airport in some remote part of Scotland.
No, just not somewhere where such an unacceptably high number of people are affected. The same report also states:Stansted handles 12,467 passengers for every person affected by noise – 47.8 times more than the 261 passengers handled by Heathrow. For Gatwick the figure is 9,233 passengers, while Luton handles 3,927 and Manchester 638
Heathrow for example employs some 77,000 people directly and a further 37,000 indirectly, the all live local to it just for starters.
Collectingbrass said:
NicD said:
What 'national plan' is that? The aspirations of the private airport owner do not qualify.
Heathrow was selected by the Air Ministry as the site for London's international airport in 1943 and construction started in April 1944.The Wilson government set up the Roskill commission to look at solving airport capacity problems for London in 1968.
The Callaghan government recognised Heathrow was to be the London hub airport and the site for future expansion in 1978, as did the Thatcher government in 1979.
It's been there for 60 years, expansion to 3 or more runways has been a possibility for 47 years and on the cards as a definite at some point for the last 37 years.
And this isn't about the aspirations of the airport owner, it's about the NEED of the UK economy to reach many more destinations than the current airline capacity from the UK can service.
I need to declare an interest at this point, I'm a civil engineer , currently work at Heathrow and have been delivering national crtitical infrastructure (M3, Jubilee line extension, coal mines, town bypasses etc) for the last 20 years that have been delayed by gutless politicians and short sighted selfish nimbys and I've seen the benefits they bring, even to the Nimbys. I just want to get on with this before we become a bankrupt back water while Holland, Frande and Germany romp away.
Edited by Collectingbrass on Wednesday 15th July 07:31
Either put-up or shut up.
Oh, and where do you live?
NicD said:
I asked you a simple question to back up your baseless assertion and you give a history lesson and a biased speech.
Either put-up or shut up.
The reason for the history lesson was to point out that Heathrow has been one of the international airports in the UK since 1943 and has been the airport most governments, of all colours, have elected to expand when appropriate. This is all on the public record and I struggle to see why this is a baseless assertion. I also struggle to see why people choose to live under long established flight paths into an ever expanding airport which is critical to the economic success of a cash strapped country and expect peace & quiet.Either put-up or shut up.
NicD said:
and a biased speech.
The reason for the declaration of interest is because I think I should be open & honest. The bias as you call it is because I have seen the benefits infrastructure improvements bring. I’ll give you the reason for my bias, and another history lesson. In the 1960s the Ministry of Transport were trying to complete the design of the M3 past Winchester to Southampton. To enable the preferred route, Winchester school would have had to give up about 100m2 of a disused corner of their playing field. They refused and the road layout eventually went through Twyford Down. The delays that change caused meant that the motorway didn’t get finished until the mid 1990s. In addition to the economic and environmental costs of the congestion and journey delays caused by the traffic lights at the Twyford cross roads on the old A33, at least 4 people a year, every year, were killed in fatal accidents either at those lights or on the blind bend under the railway bridge 1/2 mile south of there. That’s 120 deaths that could have been avoided if the school hadn’t been NIMBY about the whole thing.
NicD said:
Oh, and where do you live?
I live 1 mile from one of the main radar beacons dictating the holding pattern for Heathrow and just to the side of the approach to Luton 11 miles from the runway there. If I am not overflown by commercial aircraft I am overflown by private aircraft taking off from my local flying club, which shares its airstrip with 5 motor sport businesses, a skid pan and a stock car track which until recently held races on two weekends a month. In addition to all that my route to work will be impacted by the construction of Heathrow, Crossrail and HS2. This all predates me living here and I haven’t complained about any of this or blocked any development; apart from being a petrol head it’s the price I pay to live in the south east of England in 2015. If I wanted peace, quiet and elbow room like my parents had I would move to the remote highlands, but I also want everything the south east has to offer and I know that I can’t have my cake and eat it.NicD said:
Collectingbrass said:
NicD said:
What 'national plan' is that? The aspirations of the private airport owner do not qualify.
Heathrow was selected by the Air Ministry as the site for London's international airport in 1943 and construction started in April 1944.The Wilson government set up the Roskill commission to look at solving airport capacity problems for London in 1968.
The Callaghan government recognised Heathrow was to be the London hub airport and the site for future expansion in 1978, as did the Thatcher government in 1979.
It's been there for 60 years, expansion to 3 or more runways has been a possibility for 47 years and on the cards as a definite at some point for the last 37 years.
And this isn't about the aspirations of the airport owner, it's about the NEED of the UK economy to reach many more destinations than the current airline capacity from the UK can service.
I need to declare an interest at this point, I'm a civil engineer , currently work at Heathrow and have been delivering national crtitical infrastructure (M3, Jubilee line extension, coal mines, town bypasses etc) for the last 20 years that have been delayed by gutless politicians and short sighted selfish nimbys and I've seen the benefits they bring, even to the Nimbys. I just want to get on with this before we become a bankrupt back water while Holland, Frande and Germany romp away.
Edited by Collectingbrass on Wednesday 15th July 07:31
Either put-up or shut up.
Collectingbrass said:
2013BRM said:
Romp away where? What is going to happen all of a sudden? As you just said this farce has been going on for decades. The UK is not going to suddenly become a 3rd World it will adapt somehow via an alternative option such as Cambridge or something
Who's going to pay for that alternative option?2013BRM said:
Collectingbrass said:
2013BRM said:
Romp away where? What is going to happen all of a sudden? As you just said this farce has been going on for decades. The UK is not going to suddenly become a 3rd World it will adapt somehow via an alternative option such as Cambridge or something
Who's going to pay for that alternative option?Collectingbrass said:
2013BRM said:
Collectingbrass said:
2013BRM said:
Romp away where? What is going to happen all of a sudden? As you just said this farce has been going on for decades. The UK is not going to suddenly become a 3rd World it will adapt somehow via an alternative option such as Cambridge or something
Who's going to pay for that alternative option?aeropilot said:
Seemed well enough explained to me.......or was that you can't see the wood for the trees?
I don't want it 'explained' I want to know about this so called 'National Plan' that I should have taken note of, but I expect it is just hot air and noise like the planes going past.2013BRM said:
Collectingbrass said:
2013BRM said:
Romp away where? What is going to happen all of a sudden? As you just said this farce has been going on for decades. The UK is not going to suddenly become a 3rd World it will adapt somehow via an alternative option such as Cambridge or something
Who's going to pay for that alternative option?NicD said:
aeropilot said:
Seemed well enough explained to me.......or was that you can't see the wood for the trees?
I don't want it 'explained' I want to know about this so called 'National Plan' that I should have taken note of, but I expect it is just hot air and noise like the planes going past.1998: http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http:/...
1985: http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1985/ju...
1978: http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1978/fe...
Mind you, it is words spoken by politicians who are reknown for hot air and noise, so I guess we are both right.
bbc said:
A decision on whether to expand Heathrow Airport has been delayed until next summer, the government has confirmed.
Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin said the government would "continue to work on all shortlisted locations".
A decision had previously been expected by the end of this year.
An independent report on airport expansion by Sir Howard Davies in July backed a plan to build a third runway at Heathrow.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35062739Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin said the government would "continue to work on all shortlisted locations".
A decision had previously been expected by the end of this year.
An independent report on airport expansion by Sir Howard Davies in July backed a plan to build a third runway at Heathrow.
BlackLabel said:
bbc said:
A decision on whether to expand Heathrow Airport has been delayed until next summer, the government has confirmed.
Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin said the government would "continue to work on all shortlisted locations".
A decision had previously been expected by the end of this year.
An independent report on airport expansion by Sir Howard Davies in July backed a plan to build a third runway at Heathrow.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35062739Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin said the government would "continue to work on all shortlisted locations".
A decision had previously been expected by the end of this year.
An independent report on airport expansion by Sir Howard Davies in July backed a plan to build a third runway at Heathrow.
Heathrow and Gatwick both desperately needed new runways decades ago. Now the government is fannying around, unwilling to decide where to build just one. Delaying the decision yet again probably due to London mayor elections.
We in the UK do so many fantastic things.
But this fiasco really does make me question whether it's worth bothering with another runway. By the time our leaders make a decision and we have had all the public enquiries, bought up the land, moved the newts and started laying the Tarmac it'll be too late.
Realistically, If I came back on this thread in 2030 I doubt Heathrow would have a third runway.
But this fiasco really does make me question whether it's worth bothering with another runway. By the time our leaders make a decision and we have had all the public enquiries, bought up the land, moved the newts and started laying the Tarmac it'll be too late.
Realistically, If I came back on this thread in 2030 I doubt Heathrow would have a third runway.
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