The Conservatives on Rolling Classic Car Tax
Discussion
CarlosV8 said:
This was 'on the agenda' over 18 months ago...
http://www.v8register.net/subpages/VEDtaxexemptsta...
You would have thought a decision would have been made by now!
Over 18 months ago Brown hadn't trashed the British economy, so it's surely no suprise that things have changed. http://www.v8register.net/subpages/VEDtaxexemptsta...
You would have thought a decision would have been made by now!
rs1952 said:
Benjybh said:
I dropped CMD an email last week asking about what their policy would be on reintroducing the rolling classic car tax expemtion. Here's the reply:
Dear Mr Hughes,
I am writing on behalf of David Cameron to thank you for your email.
Under the previous Conservative administration, we introduced a rolling measure so that historic vehicles would be exempt from paying vehicle excise duty (the tax disc) if they were more than 25 years old. This was designed to help protect the history and heritage our motoring and transport heritage. However, in 1997, the current Labour Government froze the rolling aspect of this exemption; introducing a fixed cut off date instead. This meant that owners of any vehicle constructed after 1 January 1973 would have to pay vehicle excise duty if they were not declared to be off the road (SORN).
We fully understand your concern with this issue. Under the current arrangements there is a real danger that the tax on vehicles registered after 1973 may become too expensive for enthusiasts to afford. This is particularly an issue when an enthusiast has a collection of several vehicles. Many owners may only tax them for a few months in summer or even take them off the road indefinitely. The current system limits the opportunities of seeing these vehicles on the road and the additional costs could prove so burdensome that they threaten jobs in the restoration sector.
We believe that examples of our rich motoring history should be preserved for the enjoyment of future generations to come. As we move further away from the 1973 cut off date, the argument gets stronger and stronger to revise the current system.Unfortunately Labour's debt crisis means we are not in a position to make any promises regarding restoring the rolling VED date. However I will ask my team to look at this problem and see what affordable and practical measures could help.
Yours sincerely,
Nicola Sheldon
It's something I guess!
Sorry to pour cold water on this, but the highlighted bits suggest to me that you got a:Dear Mr Hughes,
I am writing on behalf of David Cameron to thank you for your email.
Under the previous Conservative administration, we introduced a rolling measure so that historic vehicles would be exempt from paying vehicle excise duty (the tax disc) if they were more than 25 years old. This was designed to help protect the history and heritage our motoring and transport heritage. However, in 1997, the current Labour Government froze the rolling aspect of this exemption; introducing a fixed cut off date instead. This meant that owners of any vehicle constructed after 1 January 1973 would have to pay vehicle excise duty if they were not declared to be off the road (SORN).
We fully understand your concern with this issue. Under the current arrangements there is a real danger that the tax on vehicles registered after 1973 may become too expensive for enthusiasts to afford. This is particularly an issue when an enthusiast has a collection of several vehicles. Many owners may only tax them for a few months in summer or even take them off the road indefinitely. The current system limits the opportunities of seeing these vehicles on the road and the additional costs could prove so burdensome that they threaten jobs in the restoration sector.
We believe that examples of our rich motoring history should be preserved for the enjoyment of future generations to come. As we move further away from the 1973 cut off date, the argument gets stronger and stronger to revise the current system.Unfortunately Labour's debt crisis means we are not in a position to make any promises regarding restoring the rolling VED date. However I will ask my team to look at this problem and see what affordable and practical measures could help.
Yours sincerely,
Nicola Sheldon
It's something I guess!
Edited by Benjybh on Tuesday 4th May 18:12
"Dear Sir
f
k offYours faithfully"
If even a small fraction of people on Pistonheads wrote a polite letter to their MP (if they are Conservative) after the election on this matter I would not rule out something happening to it.
The loss of VED on old vehicles is pretty small in the grand scheme of things and it is likely that most people who own a classic car are of Tory voting persuasion.
What the reply is effectively saying is that there would be a loss of political capital in any tax cut on a minority leisure activity with an association with pollution. At the current time the other parties would jump on it as polluting and benefiting the rich.
Unfortunately I would expect this change to come about in one of two ways, either after the recession is over or more likely as part of a package which rises tax on new cars.
That said congratulations to the OP for letter writing, your MP (or lackey) does have to read everything sent to their office and the majority of it is complaints about local things they can do nothing about. As a result it only usually takes 3-5 sensible letters on a topic and they will start taking the issue seriously. We have tens of thousands of people on PH that's a lot of letters.
Have to say it seems to me slightly better than a 'thankyou very much, but fk off' letter to me. The fact that they consider the importance of small restoration businesses and the skill base and employment opportunities that they offer is encouraging. There are a massive number of small businesses out there who rely on people spending money on their classic cars, small business proprieters employees form part of the core tory vote. The heritage, cultural and economic benefit of classic car shows/vintage transport etc is certainly something worth preserving. It's good that they recognise this, rather than being a dogma based party.
To be fair with regards to the rolling exemption, I can see the problem with it, 1980/90ss cars were a lot better built re rust etc than 1970's cars, more of them will have lasted, we might have ended up with a lot more rustbucket/deathtraps on the road, as people knew the valuble tax exemption was just round the corner. Thats just a hypothesis though.
I could see that they might revise it to 30 years, and promise to review it every 5 years or so. That would seem reasonable to me.
This is from the owner of a 1974 and 1971 MGs, only the vehicle liable for tax is on the road.
k off' letter to me. The fact that they consider the importance of small restoration businesses and the skill base and employment opportunities that they offer is encouraging. There are a massive number of small businesses out there who rely on people spending money on their classic cars, small business proprieters employees form part of the core tory vote. The heritage, cultural and economic benefit of classic car shows/vintage transport etc is certainly something worth preserving. It's good that they recognise this, rather than being a dogma based party.To be fair with regards to the rolling exemption, I can see the problem with it, 1980/90ss cars were a lot better built re rust etc than 1970's cars, more of them will have lasted, we might have ended up with a lot more rustbucket/deathtraps on the road, as people knew the valuble tax exemption was just round the corner. Thats just a hypothesis though.
I could see that they might revise it to 30 years, and promise to review it every 5 years or so. That would seem reasonable to me.
This is from the owner of a 1974 and 1971 MGs, only the vehicle liable for tax is on the road.
Could I remind you all that before the previous election the Conservatives said that if elected they would bring back a rolling date, which miserable Labour lot stopped. No excuse really, we are the only country in Europe which is denied a concession. Maybe can't expect the new date to be 25 years, maybe 30 years which seems what is accepted within Europe. Many other countries now have a rolling date - ask FBHVCs for details via their website 'contact' facility. They should also be pushing for this if they really look after the grass roots enthusiasts. Many use their vehicles for charity fund raising events.
You could also all write to Greg Knight, M.P. who is involved with not only the Parliamentary Historic Vehicle Club (or whatever they now call themselves) but also the FBHVC.
You could also all write to Greg Knight, M.P. who is involved with not only the Parliamentary Historic Vehicle Club (or whatever they now call themselves) but also the FBHVC.
Halb said:
RV8 said:
...there is some debate that if you can afford to have a car for a hobby then you should be able to find £200 a year to tax it or lose the hobby.
They should have that debate aboot kids. Where is my car tax credit!!??
!Not many people are doing many miles in pre 73 cars so the need to tax them must (well, should) be lower. The tax should be proportional to how much you use the car, because it's using it that damages the road and environment, not 'being able to use it' which is what the tax disc gets you. Obviously there are complexities but the current tax system doesn't seem to take into account how much you use the car, it just punishes you for even driving a car with high co2. I don't see it changing either but it's not the attitude to take.
Pentoman said:
Halb said:
RV8 said:
...there is some debate that if you can afford to have a car for a hobby then you should be able to find £200 a year to tax it or lose the hobby.
They should have that debate aboot kids. Where is my car tax credit!!??!Not many people are doing many miles in pre 73 cars so the need to tax them must (well, should) be lower. The tax should be proportional to how much you use the car, because it's using it that damages the road and environment, not 'being able to use it' which is what the tax disc gets you. Obviously there are complexities but the current tax system doesn't seem to take into account how much you use the car, it just punishes you for even driving a car with high co2. I don't see it changing either but it's not the attitude to take.
It sounds like you want road pricing, in fact it seems you are so fond of this view you'll stamp your feet and start telling me (when I point out a basic fact) that I am "missing the point" because I have a different point of view.
I bet you complain about paying a toll or a congestion charge, but at the end of the day you are only paying that toll when you want to use that road - imagine what it'd be like for the logistics industry or people on minimum wage traveling miles to get to work if they paid tax on usage - ohhhhh never mind about that, you have a plan for it being 'fair' for people who want a hobby.
Edited by RV8 on Monday 9th August 20:17
Morningside said:
Jasandjules said:
I'd say now is the ideal time to write to CMD and ask again!!
Why? They are in power now and dont require your vote for another four and a bit years.Jasandjules said:
Morningside said:
Jasandjules said:
I'd say now is the ideal time to write to CMD and ask again!!
Why? They are in power now and dont require your vote for another four and a bit years.There's no way in this world that this government (or any government) is going to reverse the decision. There are little or no votes in it, and they'd lose a chunk of tax. No brainer I'm afraid.
Besides, it could be seen as encouraging keeping older cars on the road and that would never do now that all parties blow the green trumpet.
Personally I'm more worried they will scrap the pre-1973 exemption, probably using those same ill thought out "green" arguments.
Wait and see...bet they scrap it just after I finish rebuilding my own 1970 Marcos.
Disco_Dale said:
Jasandjules said:
Morningside said:
Jasandjules said:
I'd say now is the ideal time to write to CMD and ask again!!
Why? They are in power now and dont require your vote for another four and a bit years.There's no way in this world that this government (or any government) is going to reverse the decision. There are little or no votes in it, and they'd lose a chunk of tax. No brainer I'm afraid.
Besides, it could be seen as encouraging keeping older cars on the road and that would never do now that all parties blow the green trumpet.
Personally I'm more worried they will scrap the pre-1973 exemption, probably using those same ill thought out "green" arguments.
Wait and see...bet they scrap it just after I finish rebuilding my own 1970 Marcos.
Think about it:
1. How many pre-1973 cars are actually on the road? In the grand scheme of things, not many as percentage of the total vehicles on the road
2. Does SORN apply to pre-1973 cars? Yes
3. How many people would removing the concession affect? Not many
4. How big is the national deficit?
Far, far more likely, if any changes happen at all, is that the exemption would be removed. You'll end up paying the standard non-emmissions related VED and SORN the thing when its not on the road.
I'm interested to look at the wider implications of the current VED rates. As some of the higher bracket cars depreciate will they at some point become financially obsolete while still having years of useful mechanical life left. How many people are going to stump up over £400 on a sub £10K car?
Come on everybody! There's a Government Website on-line petition (expiring early July 2012) calling for a restoration of a rolling date for VED concessions. SIGN IT! NOTHING VENTURED - NOTHING GAINED! The 'powers that be' - who will want every possible vote at election time - will see the strength of feeling.........also contact FIVA headquarters and ask for a schedule of concessions world wide for old vehicles - you'll get a surprise, especially where Europe ios concerned. Don't ask the FBHVC for a schedule - don't even ask them why they remain so silent on the matter.....! 
To their credit yes, it is a reasonable response by a human being who I get the feeling might even have some sympathy for car enthusiasts.
The fundamental problem still exists though - despite acknowledging that it means people won't tax their classic cars at all, and it will cost jobs in the restoration business, they ultimately settle on the tried and thoroughly discredited Labour policy of taxing ourselves rich. They can't afford to do something that will stimulate real, wealth creating, tax paying growth and jobs because it will mean cutting a tax they won't collect anyway.
I bang on about this a lot here, but the Conservatives don't have any principles or ideology and it really shows in this muddled thinking. It's the taxes that are making us poor, you nit wits!
The fundamental problem still exists though - despite acknowledging that it means people won't tax their classic cars at all, and it will cost jobs in the restoration business, they ultimately settle on the tried and thoroughly discredited Labour policy of taxing ourselves rich. They can't afford to do something that will stimulate real, wealth creating, tax paying growth and jobs because it will mean cutting a tax they won't collect anyway.
I bang on about this a lot here, but the Conservatives don't have any principles or ideology and it really shows in this muddled thinking. It's the taxes that are making us poor, you nit wits!
VED needs scrapping full stop. Add the revenue gained to the tax on fuel and have done with it.
No more cost of printing discs. No more staff costs to administer it. No more people dodging to pay it. Simplest solution all round.
As for the letter. Must have felt nice to get a response that sounded personal. But when you stop and read what it says it must be a bit deflating. Blaming Labour would be ok...if they weren't cooking up other schemes which also add to the deficit (free pre-school places being trialled?).
No more cost of printing discs. No more staff costs to administer it. No more people dodging to pay it. Simplest solution all round.
As for the letter. Must have felt nice to get a response that sounded personal. But when you stop and read what it says it must be a bit deflating. Blaming Labour would be ok...if they weren't cooking up other schemes which also add to the deficit (free pre-school places being trialled?).
Murph7355 said:
VED needs scrapping full stop. Add the revenue gained to the tax on fuel and have done with it.
No more cost of printing discs. No more staff costs to administer it. No more people dodging to pay it. Simplest solution all round.
But now the downside.No more cost of printing discs. No more staff costs to administer it. No more people dodging to pay it. Simplest solution all round.
People who live in rural areas and/or do a lot of mileage would be stung if VED was abolished and the money collected on a pence-per-litre basis on fuel instead.
There are a lot of conservative MPs sitting for predominantly rural constituencies.
A lot of people who do high mileages who don't live in rural areas either vote conservative or donate large sums of money to the Tories.
Now join the dots ......
rs1952 said:
Murph7355 said:
VED needs scrapping full stop. Add the revenue gained to the tax on fuel and have done with it.
No more cost of printing discs. No more staff costs to administer it. No more people dodging to pay it. Simplest solution all round.
But now the downside.No more cost of printing discs. No more staff costs to administer it. No more people dodging to pay it. Simplest solution all round.
People who live in rural areas and/or do a lot of mileage would be stung if VED was abolished and the money collected on a pence-per-litre basis on fuel instead.
There are a lot of conservative MPs sitting for predominantly rural constituencies.
A lot of people who do high mileages who don't live in rural areas either vote conservative or donate large sums of money to the Tories.
Now join the dots ......
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