Balanced Question Time panel tonight - of course not!
Discussion
PorkInsider said:
crankedup said:
Rightwingers say Owen Jones no good!
Clearly he is getting his message across. Good man.
The fact that some lefties see Owen Jones as being their voice tells you everything you need to know about why Labour got their arses handed to them on May 7th.Clearly he is getting his message across. Good man.
There's as much chance of Labour getting a majority next time as there is of seeing Lord Lucan knitting fog while galloping down the Mall on Shergar, while these people supposedly speak on behalf of the working man.
Long may it continue, I say.
audidoody said:
Yep. Damn to hell those b
ds who have more than I do.
You come across as loud as O.J. ds who have more than I do.I damn to hell wealthy barstewards such as the odious Maxwell creature. Genuine wealth stolon from the workers. The people such as Diamond, Fred the shred and all those that are continuing to thieve ordinary people by fixing rates. Yeah damn them.
Good and bad in all, rich or poor I say.
crankedup said:
Balance in democracy, I'm all for that. Labour have had a good run, now its the turn of the Tories. Same old same old but its the best we have got. Meanwhile I find O.J. has interesting POV and we would all be worse off without those that oppose imo the Government, politically. Whether we agree or not with his politics we need people like him, to either reinforce through imagination the intellect and political superiority of opposing parties or admire O.J's own for his determination to get the message out.
I don't agree Cranky. Oh, don't get me wrong, I am all for a strong voice of opposition and a credible alternative proposition to be considered.....BUT OJ is neither of those things. His is a voice of hatred and division. Its never about enabling the poor to do better, it's never about ensuring equality of opportunity as far as he is concerned....instead it's all about finding a bogey man and attempting to unite the rabble behind him in an all out attack. Thats not clever or intelligent debating. That's lowest common denominator stuff. If you're happy for him to speak for you then knock yerself out big fella, but personally I think we deserve better politicians ( of all colours) and sucking up to OJ just cos he annoys people you don't agree with is most certainly NOT the way to improve the standard of political debate or politicians in this country IMHO.MarshPhantom said:
audidoody said:
Yep. Damn to hell those bds who have more than I do.
It's not about how much they earn, but the effect their actions have on wider society.ds who have more than I do.The banking crisis, for example.
How many of those "bankers " are still in a job?
What should be done about the politicians who also played a major role in creating the banking crisis?
Should there be a " politicians tax" to help pay for the losses caused by their duplicity?
Should we have group punishment taxes when a few people do wrong things. - for example should all nurses have a special tax imposed on them as a result of thei suffering and death caused by the criminal acts of their colleagues in Mid Staffs?
Just trying to understand your logic here....
andymadmak said:
crankedup said:
Balance in democracy, I'm all for that. Labour have had a good run, now its the turn of the Tories. Same old same old but its the best we have got. Meanwhile I find O.J. has interesting POV and we would all be worse off without those that oppose imo the Government, politically. Whether we agree or not with his politics we need people like him, to either reinforce through imagination the intellect and political superiority of opposing parties or admire O.J's own for his determination to get the message out.
I don't agree Cranky. Oh, don't get me wrong, I am all for a strong voice of opposition and a credible alternative proposition to be considered.....BUT OJ is neither of those things. His is a voice of hatred and division. Its never about enabling the poor to do better, it's never about ensuring equality of opportunity as far as he is concerned....instead it's all about finding a bogey man and attempting to unite the rabble behind him in an all out attack. Thats not clever or intelligent debating. That's lowest common denominator stuff. If you're happy for him to speak for you then knock yerself out big fella, but personally I think we deserve better politicians ( of all colours) and sucking up to OJ just cos he annoys people you don't agree with is most certainly NOT the way to improve the standard of political debate or politicians in this country IMHO.He is a firebrand, if he gets people excited about politics perhaps that will motivate them to look deeper and make up their own minds. I like him, but not always agreeing with him.
At least the guy is doing his homework and prepares for debate.
Edited by crankedup on Friday 22 May 15:41
I'm not sure it's the policies that irk. They've been around for a long time and seem to never change. Same old same old since Keir Hardy (he actually resurrected him in amongst all that manufactured angst). I think it's his delivery that's the problem - bigoted and rude, relying on the little boy lost sympathy vote. 100 years out of date. Inconsequential twaddle.
Edited by Thorodin on Friday 22 May 18:50
andymadmak said:
How many "bankers" were involved in the banking crisis? Ie, caused it?
How many of those "bankers " are still in a job?
What should be done about the politicians who also played a major role in creating the banking crisis?
Should there be a " politicians tax" to help pay for the losses caused by their duplicity?
Should we have group punishment taxes when a few people do wrong things. - for example should all nurses have a special tax imposed on them as a result of thei suffering and death caused by the criminal acts of their colleagues in Mid Staffs?
Just trying to understand your logic here....
My logic? OK - I'll give it a shot with the short version. The bankers? I probably actually agree with Jones. People who get more money than God by being deceptive, duplicitous, fat-cat bar stewards and who have never risked a penny of their own money should be pilloried. The LIBOR and FOREX cheats should be hauled before the courts and dealt with, Sack 'em. fine 'em. jail 'em. I'll cheer them on their way to the Scrubs.How many of those "bankers " are still in a job?
What should be done about the politicians who also played a major role in creating the banking crisis?
Should there be a " politicians tax" to help pay for the losses caused by their duplicity?
Should we have group punishment taxes when a few people do wrong things. - for example should all nurses have a special tax imposed on them as a result of thei suffering and death caused by the criminal acts of their colleagues in Mid Staffs?
Just trying to understand your logic here....
But the Big Mistake that Jones, Miliband, Balls and the entire Labour Party movement make is to equate wealth with dishonesty, exploitation, law-breaking, and the creation of wealth on the backs of the vulnerable.
They make no distinction with those who become wealthy by risking their house and sanity to build a better mousetrap. The apparatus of the state does not help them build their mousetrap. But the state is first in line with an outstretched hand when the mousetrap succeeds.
Without the mousetrap makers and wealth and job creators - unemployment soars and the tax take drops. The public services, NHS, or welfare state are put under enormous strain Without encouraging 'can do' aspiration how can the state ever generate the revenues to support the poor, vulnerable and sick?
crankedup said:
You come across as loud as O.J.
I damn to hell wealthy barstewards such as the odious Maxwell creature. Genuine wealth stolon from the workers. The people such as Diamond, Fred the shred and all those that are continuing to thieve ordinary people by fixing rates. Yeah damn them.
Good and bad in all, rich or poor I say.
But the odious Diamond and Goodwin 'worked' in banks. The criminal traders who should at least be in jail also just worked there. Don't get me wrong, I would prefer to see them all locked up but in the end, they are all just workers. paid a bit more that the workers we apparently should admire. I'd be interested in where the line gets drawn between being a hard pressed worker and an exploitative worker. I damn to hell wealthy barstewards such as the odious Maxwell creature. Genuine wealth stolon from the workers. The people such as Diamond, Fred the shred and all those that are continuing to thieve ordinary people by fixing rates. Yeah damn them.
Good and bad in all, rich or poor I say.
Now Maxwell, there's an owner, exploiting the workers. He'd fall under the great Eds definition of a predatory capitalist.
MarshPhantom said:
It's not about how much they earn, but the effect their actions have on wider society.
The banking crisis, for example.
What about the positive impact (GDP growth / tax income etc) that occurred in the years in the run up to the crisis that was a direct result of the cheap lending....?!The banking crisis, for example.
crankedup said:
Balance in democracy, I'm all for that. Labour have had a good run, now its the turn of the Tories. Same old same old but its the best we have got. Meanwhile I find O.J. has interesting POV and we would all be worse off without those that oppose imo the Government, politically. Whether we agree or not with his politics we need people like him, to either reinforce through imagination the intellect and political superiority of opposing parties or admire O.J's own for his determination to get the message out.
I can understand a socialist, even admire and respect their points of view, but O J uses the good points you mention not to help or to change but to attack the tories whether they are relevant to his attacks or not, any point he has to make must be against them.I wish he would just grow up and accept there are two sides and that you can be a socialist without all the hatred and spitting of bile.
Edited by NoNeed on Saturday 23 May 00:49
crankedup said:
...
At least the guy is doing his homework and prepares for debate....
He says the same tired bAt least the guy is doing his homework and prepares for debate....
ks every single time he makes an appearance. There's no homework. Just a well practiced script from a middle-class class warrior.I can see why you like him
He's Russell Brand in slightly looser trousers.
Owen Jones is a ready made left-wing rant-a-thon, he regurgitates the same tired bull each time. He is rent a champagne socialist soundbite generator. I did like his "working class people like us" line.
How much botox has nicky Morgan had? her face seems incapable of movement. She really does the party drone thing well. Education secretary on QT, and only one short question about education.
Fallon is the human equivalent of tofu, bland and utterly forgettable.
The business woman, old dragon does seem apt, seems to be doing her best recovering alcoholic impersonation.
Creasy does the head tilt cutie pie look at the end of each point, gets really irritating once you notice it. She is another political lightweight.
A forgettable program.
How much botox has nicky Morgan had? her face seems incapable of movement. She really does the party drone thing well. Education secretary on QT, and only one short question about education.
Fallon is the human equivalent of tofu, bland and utterly forgettable.
The business woman, old dragon does seem apt, seems to be doing her best recovering alcoholic impersonation.
Creasy does the head tilt cutie pie look at the end of each point, gets really irritating once you notice it. She is another political lightweight.
A forgettable program.
audidoody said:
My logic? OK - I'll give it a shot with the short version. The bankers? I probably actually agree with Jones. People who get more money than God by being deceptive, duplicitous, fat-cat bar stewards and who have never risked a penny of their own money should be pilloried. The LIBOR and FOREX cheats should be hauled before the courts and dealt with, Sack 'em. fine 'em. jail 'em. I'll cheer them on their way to the Scrubs.
But the Big Mistake that Jones, Miliband, Balls and the entire Labour Party movement make is to equate wealth with dishonesty, exploitation, law-breaking, and the creation of wealth on the backs of the vulnerable.
They make no distinction with those who become wealthy by risking their house and sanity to build a better mousetrap. The apparatus of the state does not help them build their mousetrap. But the state is first in line with an outstretched hand when the mousetrap succeeds.
Without the mousetrap makers and wealth and job creators - unemployment soars and the tax take drops. The public services, NHS, or welfare state are put under enormous strain Without encouraging 'can do' aspiration how can the state ever generate the revenues to support the poor, vulnerable and sick?
You are talking sense and therefore have no place in this thread.But the Big Mistake that Jones, Miliband, Balls and the entire Labour Party movement make is to equate wealth with dishonesty, exploitation, law-breaking, and the creation of wealth on the backs of the vulnerable.
They make no distinction with those who become wealthy by risking their house and sanity to build a better mousetrap. The apparatus of the state does not help them build their mousetrap. But the state is first in line with an outstretched hand when the mousetrap succeeds.
Without the mousetrap makers and wealth and job creators - unemployment soars and the tax take drops. The public services, NHS, or welfare state are put under enormous strain Without encouraging 'can do' aspiration how can the state ever generate the revenues to support the poor, vulnerable and sick?
crankedup said:
At least the guy is doing his homework and prepares for debate.
I don't think he does do his homework. He seems to say the same soundbites over. Nobody dismantled his excited type of nonsense on QT but I've seen him be taken apart on the show with Portillo and O'Neal when his soundbites are dissected logically.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff