Balanced Question Time panel tonight - of course not!

Balanced Question Time panel tonight - of course not!

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Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Friday 23rd October 2015
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iphonedyou said:
But (as you allude to, and I think it's important) it's not all service centres. I would class myself as working in a service industry - I'm a Chartered Surveyor - and without the QS role very few of the houses you mention would get made, and those living in them wouldn't have factories to work in, in which they can make 'stuff'. We provide a service, all we're essentially paid for is ability, intellect, whatever way you want to put it - we produce, directly, nothing tangible.

Apropos of construction alone, there are lots of service roles in the same vein - structural engineers, civil engineers, project management et al.

I don't think we're just circulating money around, though.
as an industry, no, you make stuff, in every industry some of the people in it 'service' the industry - like yourself.

the issue is when the entire economy is service related.


fido

16,752 posts

254 months

Friday 23rd October 2015
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Scuffers said:
the issue is when the entire economy is service related.
But why? I agree it would be better to have a balanced economy (by any description of the word) in the same way you should have a balanced portfolio of investments, but why this inverted-snobbery about making stuff out of iron rather with silicon. Why is a call-centre any worse than making low-end widgets?
I'd argue they are both as bad as they produce low returns on capital.
But tis is exactly the sort of attitude that killed off the fledgling computer industry in the 90s - we could have had an Apple/Microsoft if we spent less time worrying about sending people down pits or making things out of metal ..

Edited by fido on Friday 23 October 15:27

Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Friday 23rd October 2015
quotequote all
fido said:
But why? I agree it would be better to have a balanced economy (by any description of the word) in the same way you should have a balanced portfolio of investments, but why this inverted-snobbery about making stuff out of iron rather with silicon. Why is a call-centre any worse than making low-end widgets?
I'd argue they are both as bad as they produce low returns on capital.
But tis is exactly the sort of attitude that killed off the fledgling computer industry in the 90s - we could have had an Apple/Microsoft if we spent less time worrying about sending people down pits or making things out of metal ..
I would be ecstatic if we actually made some silicon! (as opposed to doing the R&D and then giving it away to the Yanks etc.)

apart from some notable exceptions (ARM etc) we always end up with stuff all.

The problem is that if you're not making stuff and just selling services, unless your paying customers are predominantly oversea's, then it's just money going round in circles.

The other problem is that it's all to easy to then off-shore the call centre at which point, we have lost everything.


Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Friday 23rd October 2015
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Most amusing chat between the Greek finance fella, some lord and the MP for the 18th century today on the Politics show on how Pythoneque the UK's parliament is.

economicpygmy

387 posts

122 months

Friday 23rd October 2015
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The kind of service jobs that is being talked about in context of QT tend to be in low skilled, easier to outsource, lack scalability and more difficult to export. So, you can start-up call centres, car washing, coffie shops... but where’s the future in jobs with those attributes?

You cant just have everyone in the industrial north run out to jump into a call centres and then in 5 years time when we need our own steel making facilities, or its profitable, hit a switch and crack on. And it probably wouldn’t be profitable anyway because the plant would need recommissioning.

Decades developing industrial processes are harder to copy, catch up, and/or restart when the guys with the knowledge or who have pioneered them have retired. And such industry requires low skilled and skilled workers where the low skilled have a chance of a highly skilled career; a future!

Our economy is ~80% services; not very diverse/mixed which IS a risk and the reason why hundreds of billions of bailout were required in 2008+. Are people not at all concerned that we don’t have a long term industrial policy?

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 23rd October 2015
quotequote all
fido said:
Scuffers said:
the issue is when the entire economy is service related.
But why? I agree it would be better to have a balanced economy (by any description of the word) in the same way you should have a balanced portfolio of investments, but why this inverted-snobbery about making stuff out of iron rather with silicon. Why is a call-centre any worse than making low-end widgets?
I'd argue they are both as bad as they produce low returns on capital.
But tis is exactly the sort of attitude that killed off the fledgling computer industry in the 90s - we could have had an Apple/Microsoft if we spent less time worrying about sending people down pits or making things out of metal ..

Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 23 October 15:27
Making stuff out of silicon is fine but the service sector doesn't do that, that would be a manufacturing process.

It's amazing, though perhaps shouldn't be, that so many don't know the difference between an 'industry' that adds value and those that don't.

I still can't believe that a Chartered Surveyor didn't realise that he was in a manufacturing industry......

Northern Munkee

5,354 posts

199 months

Friday 23rd October 2015
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economicpygmy said:
The kind of service jobs that is being talked about in context of QT tend to be in low skilled, easier to outsource, lack scalability and more difficult to export. So, you can start-up call centres, car washing, coffie shops... but where’s the future in jobs with those attributes?

You cant just have everyone in the industrial north run out to jump into a call centres and then in 5 years time when we need our own steel making facilities, or its profitable, hit a switch and crack on. And it probably wouldn’t be profitable anyway because the plant would need recommissioning.

Decades developing industrial processes are harder to copy, catch up, and/or restart when the guys with the knowledge or who have pioneered them have retired. And such industry requires low skilled and skilled workers where the low skilled have a chance of a highly skilled career; a future!

Our economy is ~80% services; not very diverse/mixed which IS a risk and the reason why hundreds of billions of bailout were required in 2008+. Are people not at all concerned that we don’t have a long term industrial policy?
It strikes me that if we are not careful, the birth place of the industrial revolution may, with a few exceptions or speciality manufacturers, be the first post industrial economy.

BlackLabel

13,251 posts

122 months

Thursday 29th October 2015
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Tonight we have a real who's who of nobodies.


Scuffers

20,887 posts

273 months

Thursday 29th October 2015
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Humm...

think I'll give this one a miss!

whoami

13,151 posts

239 months

Thursday 29th October 2015
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Scuffers said:
Humm...

think I'll give this one a miss!
A wise move.

Funkycoldribena

7,379 posts

153 months

Thursday 29th October 2015
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Musician??

iphonedyou

9,234 posts

156 months

Thursday 29th October 2015
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Christ, Billy Bragg.

I only know of him through somebody on Facebook - massively pro-union, shop steward sort of bloke - that I promptly blocked.

He'll make Mhairi sound sensible.

Cobnapint

8,597 posts

150 months

Thursday 29th October 2015
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I think I'll record this one and play it back while I'm out.

Stickyfinger

8,429 posts

104 months

Thursday 29th October 2015
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Funkycoldribena said:
Musician??
Yes and a good one as well.

The "subject" matter however is a different song

Axionknight

8,505 posts

134 months

Thursday 29th October 2015
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What a pack of total no marks.

I think I'll get drunk instead.

Laurel Green

30,770 posts

231 months

Thursday 29th October 2015
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Reason enough to stay over on C4 watching First Dates.

Funkycoldribena

7,379 posts

153 months

Thursday 29th October 2015
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Stickyfinger said:
Funkycoldribena said:
Musician??
Yes and a good one as well.

The "subject" matter however is a different song
Yeah great if you like political campfire songs in shouty mode.

chris watton

22,477 posts

259 months

Thursday 29th October 2015
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Laurel Green said:
Reason enough to stay over on C4 watching First Dates.
Thursdays are good for TV right now, we'll be watching The Last Kingdom (A good programme from the BBC for once)! and Unforgotten tonight.

I really can no longer stomach QT.

mcelliott

8,626 posts

180 months

Thursday 29th October 2015
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Question time has been poor for months, I haven't watched a full program in ages. At least you could laugh uproariously or throw things with intent when they invited the likes of Charlotte Church, Will Young, Joey Barton or other token thickheads. This lot however, I wouldn't give them the steam off my piss.

stevensdrs

3,208 posts

199 months

Thursday 29th October 2015
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I am going to watch purely for the amusement of seeing the "wee dug" dig herself a huge hole. As for the rest of the panel I don't expect much entertainment.
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